Tate no Yuusha/Shield Hero Anime General Discussion Thread

[felix]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

Gotta argue with this one. She's not a slave: he freed her from the slave contract within a few chapters of meeting her. The contract he uses to do so is not a slave contract. It's a "dispel the slave collar's contract" contract. Also, the word "master" she uses for him is "shishou" which means "master" in the sense of a martial-arts teacher, not "master" in the sense of a slave's owner.

AH right. It's been so long I forgot the details. Shishou is the best one. Some groups did translate it as master, glad the source is shishou. Thanks for the correction.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by felix

It may be I'm mixing novels with series in my head, but off the top of my head: from last year How not to summon a demon lord and Death March are literally slave harems. In goblin slayer the priestess is "raised" by the goblin slayer character, and the globins "raise" slave girls to reproduce (typically heroes), but I have no problem with the narative, it's solid regardless if people feel it's too edgy. In SOA I believe they have a "daughter" ingame at some point. In conception anime pretty sure it's a slave harem from what little I watched. Completely forgot what the smart phone one was even about. Overlord the main character literally just programs the females to be his slaves in episode 1.

Counter examples: Re:Zero (even tho I hate it) the main character doesn't really have any harem; the show does have contracted girls (the house loli, rem and ram) but they don't belong to main character so guess they doesnt count. Think restaurant in another world doesn't count... probably. Gate doesn't count probably. And pretty sure none of this crap is in Log Horizon if I remember right.

Hm. Maybe you're right and it's not very common in anime, or at least wasnt until last year when we got a lot of them.

How Not to Summon a Demon Lord is two girls, hardly a harem, and most of the slaves in Death March are never made love interests. GS doesn't have the hero "raise" the priestess, they just travel together as companions and he teaches her a few things because she's a novice. SAO does have an AI that chooses to become the hero and heroine's daughter, that much is true. Conception doesn't have any slaves at all, what it has is both sides placed in a very awkward position where the world's survival depends on them finding a way to feel at least a little affection for one another; an idea I thought would be really interesting but executed horribly. Smartphone all the girls act of their own accord, to the point where the hero really has the least say out of all of them. Overlord and the first two are pretty much the only ones where any sort of "slavery" even exists.

It's true that there are a handful of light novels where the hero from another world makes a harem of slaves, though most of them are too sexual to have much chance to get aired (like more than HNTSADL), but again there's a big difference between a hero enslaving a bunch of girls for the purpose of sexual or romantic pursuit and a hero enslaving a single person with no interest in anything besides her ability to use a weapon to kill enemies.

[felix]

Why not pick just about everyone else there tho?

[edit] Don't care for "what a normal person would do" btw, a in-character reason is fine.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

It's true that there are a handful of light novels where the hero from another world makes a harem of slaves, though most of them are too sexual to have much chance to get aired (like more than HNTSADL), but again there's a big difference between a hero enslaving a bunch of girls for the purpose of sexual or romantic pursuit and a hero enslaving a single person with no interest in anything besides her ability to use a weapon to kill enemies.

You're right, there is a difference. One is blatant about its intent and the other tries to pretend otherwise.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Haak

You're right, there is a difference. One is blatant about its intent and the other tries to pretend otherwise.

Uh no. Seriously you think the guy's looking to screw a little girl? It's not some sort of hypocritical "pretending I'm not interested in her that way", it's literally a guy who wants a sword and can't afford anything but the bottom of the barrel (remember he's broke except for the scant pickings he can find on his own). Why is it so hard to believe that a hero could choose to keep a girl around without wanting to do her? Even when she's like half his age?

[Haak]

Missing the point. Doesn't matter what the MC thinks as long as he's dense/neutral enough so you can project yourself onto him. And yes, that's by design.

And besides, both motivations aren't mutually exclusive.

Listen, if you've watched How Not to Summon a Demon Lord and you're convinced that's an example of slavery NOT being played as sexual fantasy then there's nothing left to discuss. You want to bury your head in the sand, that's up to you. Clearly nothing is going to convince you otherwise.

[Applehell]

Slavery in isekai for the most part is basically something feisthized by people who have no idea what slavery actually was. The worst part is slave apologists who do know come out of woodwork to defend MCs who willing in engage it because they are nice to their properties. Some cases like Diablo in "How to Not Summon a Demon Lord" was least forced in to it by circumstances beyond their control as I understood it.

That said, to be fair there is much worse than SH went it comes to this area in the genre.

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

the problem is.... the kingdom is matriarchy... which means that crime against women would bring a huge bias to the law system
it is not that comparable to what we think

in several upcoming episodes, we would see more explanation about the system in the kingdom.. There are several issues about why this case is handled like that

Not to put you specifically on the spot, but comments like this why some people have a problem with the false rape accusation inconjuction the kingdom being stated to be matriarchy. The framing puts the blame system and women in general rather than individual which has lead people wonder about authors views on women. The issue should be the lack of due process which is inherent to neither power structures. It's not doing the show any favors if this is the kind of thing it wants it's audinece to think.

[felix]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

Uh no. Seriously you think the guy's looking to screw a little girl? It's not some sort of hypocritical "pretending I'm not interested in her that way", it's literally a guy who wants a sword and can't afford anything but the bottom of the barrel (remember he's broke except for the scant pickings he can find on his own). Why is it so hard to believe that a hero could choose to keep a girl around without wanting to do her? Even when she's like half his age?

You should know, that even in the echii novels, the gimmick is always the guy plays goody goody and lets the girl "naturally" fall for him. Unless the protagonist is a literal anti-hero.

Also she is not the cheapest. I checked just to confirm but everyone in the part of the tent he went to are classified as "the cheapest I have to offer" so it makes no difference. However this seems to have been made more ambiguous in the anime. Everyone except the girl is made more monstrous and the line "I would prefer a male" is removed.

Well whatever the case, like I said originally, my problem is that keeping the slave status effectively reduces them to sock puppets that occasionally enact various fanservice tropes. I don't really care how holy the hero is or if he goes completely dark, I just find this middle ground series wuss into to be cheap storytelling and plot. There's not much substance to it.

Even if it's as you say, whats their relationship and potential there? Slave & Master? Good guy and lewd girl who has romantic feelings that she cant tell her master? Tool? None of these are very interesting.

[Twi]

Spoiler:

It's not helped that when you look at the PV and cover of the anime, she clearly doesn't stay a child.

[Neki Ecko]

Originally Posted by felix

Why not pick just about everyone else there tho?

[edit] Don't care for "what a normal person would do" btw, a in-character reason is fine.

Here is the reason, because of that little stunt that happen with the false rape charge, one huge problem arose from that.

As long that he is around, nobody will believe in him or party with him out of the respect for the royal house. Heck, look at all the trouble that happen because of that, its really hard to respect those folks that going to doubt him even know they don't even know him. You can tell by the reactions of the townfolks, shopkeepers and etc.

Shieldbro had his reason why he choose the way he did (mostly into novel range) besides if you were him, would you deal with people like them. Heck, I would move on into a place that nobody knows me.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Haak

Missing the point. Doesn't matter what the MC thinks as long as he's dense/neutral enough so you can project yourself onto him. And yes, that's by design.

And besides, both motivations aren't mutually exclusive.

Listen, if you've watched How Not to Summon a Demon Lord and you're convinced that's an example of slavery NOT being played as sexual fantasy then there's nothing left to discuss. You want to bury your head in the sand, that's up to you. Clearly nothing is going to convince you otherwise.

When did I say that one wasn't sexual fantasy? I was talking about this show. That's why before I talked about the handful of slavery series I'd seen being even more sexual than that one. That guy didn't mean to enslave anyone and he generally doesn't deliberately do stuff, but yeah in that one you'd have to be a fool to think he doesn't look at the girls in a sexual way or that that part of the show isn't for the sake of fantasy. This show is different, it's a guy choosing one of the likely very few slaves cheap enough for his wallet and only caring service-wise about whether she can kill things and whether this curse will guarantee her honesty and cooperation. I don't know how you got the impression that I thought HNTSADL wasn't extremely sexual.

Also, Felix, either the parts he showed "all" being "the cheapest" was a mistranslation or a change to the script:

Spoiler:

According to LN and manga, he first shows him his best to show off, then takes him through the hall, not heading THROUGH the cheapest but rather heading TO the cheapest, with the only cheaper slaves being down another hall that Naofumi said smelled really bad...

And again, while I'd be in general agreement with your assessment of slavery being "cheap" in most series, again to me there are a lot of factors playing into it. As TV Tropes says, tropes aren't bad or good. In this case a slave girl is an obvious outcome of the hero's circumstance as well as a good demonstration of the state of the world. And no, there are more options for a slave than just the ones you listed. It's true that the curse makes it so she could be forced into slavery or made a tool, and anyone could become a pervert who's hiding their desires, but none of those seem likely or have any evidence suggesting they'll happen as of yet. Just like there's so far absolutely no evidence aside from general trends to suggest that this will go harem. I'd at least wait until he's got two girls close by that can be deemed viable romantic partners first.

[Twi]

Originally Posted by Neki Ecko

Here is the reason, because of that little stunt that happen with the false rape charge, one huge problem arose from that.

As long that he is around, nobody will believe in him or party with him out of the respect for the royal house. Heck, look at all the trouble that happen because of that, its really hard to respect those folks that going to doubt him even know they don't even know him. You can tell by the reactions of the townfolks, shopkeepers and etc.

Shieldbro had his reason why he choose the way he did (mostly into novel range) besides if you were him, would you deal with people like them. Heck, I would move on into a place that nobody knows me.

My question is why a rape charge? That should either be a death sentence or him being locked away until the sun itself burned out. Yet, they just leave him out to be outcast? There is a literal crisis where your world has come under threat and so you summon four powerful assets to help deal with that. You then proceed to ignore, spy, spread rumors, steal from, accuse of rape, humiliate, and toss out that one of said said asset in possession of a legendary item....

Are you out of your mind?

On the other hand, I do like how the other three heroes pointed out after being summoned the flaws with them being called in and no promises they could get back. They immediately hit on one of the major flaws with Isekai by questioning what would come after the fighting. I'm kind of with them here in wanting some guarantees before I put my life on the line.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Twi

On the other hand, I do like how the other three heroes pointed out after being summoned the flaws with them being called in and no promises they could get back. They immediately hit on one of the major flaws with Isekai by questioning what would come after the fighting. I'm kind of with them here in wanting some guarantees before I put my life on the line.

What guarantees? I'd worry about all 4 being killed after their job is done if I were them.

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Twi

My question is why a rape charge? That should either be a death sentence or him being locked away until the sun itself burned out. Yet, they just leave him out to be outcast? There is a literal crisis where your world has come under threat and so you summon four powerful assets to help deal with that. You then proceed to ignore, spy, spread rumors, steal from, accuse of rape, humiliate, and toss out that one of said said asset in possession of a legendary item....

Are you out of your mind?

On the other hand, I do like how the other three heroes pointed out after being summoned the flaws with them being called in and no promises they could get back. They immediately hit on one of the major flaws with Isekai by questioning what would come after the fighting. I'm kind of with them here in wanting some guarantees before I put my life on the line.

Well, they can't hurt him. The shield protects him. And it should be rather clear by now, but they have reasons they haven't discussed yet for choosing to hate the shield hero, above and beyond anything people accuse him of having done.

[Twi]

Oh no. I know those reasons. I'm just not bringing them up because I'm working from the perspective of someone who is watching the first time that, based on what we know so far, it's not logical. The king himself said that throwing him in a jail cell was a waste (there's other reasons as well they can't but again, first-time perspective), but you may as well have considering they knew that he wouldn't be able to partner with anyone after that got out. A real diplomat would have handled the matter quietly so they didn't harm the spirit of the people by having them believe that one of the legendary heroes they summoned was a rapist. And if Naofumi had been a real rapist, the fact that they just set him loose to run around the countryside without a guard on each arm is another problem.

Originally Posted by orion

What guarantees? I'd worry about all 4 being killed after their job is done if I were them.

I would be looking for an exit strategy already consider the king didn't bring up the fact that they could only go home when the waves were done until that false rape accusation. At this point they've basically got no choice, and if he lied once he can do it again. So they're less heroes and more hostages that don't know they're hostages.

[zztop]

I checked out ANN's 1st impressions for Shield Hero.
Out of their 5 reviewers, only 2 gave it an OK score of 3 out of 5. (One of them reviews the LNs).

The other 3 disliked or hated it outright, mostly because of how the princess framed the MC.
One thing I notice about their reviewers is they let their socio-political views heavily influence their judgement of an anime, even if the anime didn't have any sort of views to begin with. And if said anime runs counter to those views, those are big grounds for them to hate it.

It was the same thing when they reviewed Death March - because Satou's companions were legally otherworld slaves they really bashed it hard (and other reasons, like hating Satou's characterization etc.)

[Magewolf]

Originally Posted by zztop

I checked out ANN's 1st impressions for Shield Hero.
Out of their 5 reviewers, only 2 gave it an OK score of 3 out of 5. (One of them reviews the LNs).

The other 3 disliked or hated it outright, mostly because of how the princess framed the MC.
One thing I notice about their reviewers is they let their socio-political views heavily influence their judgement of an anime, even if the anime didn't have any sort of views to begin with. And if said anime runs counter to those views, those are big grounds for them to hate it.

It was the same thing when they reviewed Death March - because Satou's companions were legally otherworld slaves they really bashed it hard (and other reasons, like hating Satou's characterization etc.)

I think there are plenty of non-socio-political reasons to dislike Satou's characterization. The whole secret identity thing was contrived at the start and it just gets worse as the books go along.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by zztop

I checked out ANN's 1st impressions for Shield Hero.
Out of their 5 reviewers, only 2 gave it an OK score of 3 out of 5. (One of them reviews the LNs).

The other 3 disliked or hated it outright, mostly because of how the princess framed the MC.
One thing I notice about their reviewers is they let their socio-political views heavily influence their judgement of an anime, even if the anime didn't have any sort of views to begin with. And if said anime runs counter to those views, those are big grounds for them to hate it.

It was the same thing when they reviewed Death March - because Satou's companions were legally otherworld slaves they really bashed it hard (and other reasons, like hating Satou's characterization etc.)

I've heard they've been absurd for some time now, fallen straight down that one particular hole. And sure enough, as seems to happen with reviewers who go that way, their opinions appear to be in strong opposition to the overall public opinion.

I'll say though one thing they pointed out made me realize a stupid move on the adaptation. In order to cut time they cut out some major points from the book he was reading, which makes him look like a real jerk. In the LN and manga, the book specifically talks about the strengths of the different heroes and how those also lead to weaknesses, and it also talks about the princess and how she uses her feminine wiles to play the different heroes against one another for her own benefit. It's for this reason that Naofumi calls her a "b*tch", and it sets her apart from all the other women in the story, good and bad. But for some reason the animation staff cut the descriptions out leaving nothing but a nondescript picture of a woman. This certainly was a mistake since Myne and the princess in the book are the only women we see him interact with in the premier, so we get the impression that Naofumi is prone to judging women based on looks and dismissing pretty women for shallow reasons. Bad mistake there. Here's hoping that they find a way to fix this in later episodes though. And no, I'm pretty sure this author doesn't hate women and think that the behavior demonstrated by her is something that happens frequently; she's just special that way.

[Calca]

One of ANN's reviewers (Nick Creamer) went out of his way to take potshots at the author of the Light Novel making assumptions of the author's intentions based on the first episode and even going so far to claim the author wrote what he did because he's angry at women.

A person may not like a work, but when you go out of your way to slam the author, especially when the review seemed like a ton of virtue signaling and grandstanding, you lose a hell of a lot of credibility in a review. It'd be like someone personally slamming GRR Martin for some of the dark content in The Song of Ice and Fire series.

[Kuroageha]

I checked out of curiosity. Haha, wow. That cringey thing was more a full projection of the writer than an actual review of the episode

Originally Posted by felix

Even if it's as you say, whats their relationship and potential there? Slave & Master? Good guy and lewd girl who has romantic feelings that she cant tell her master? Tool? None of these are very interesting.

Father and daughter