(L+CR) Chihayafuru

[-Sho-]

Well it's not surprising that Taichi steals the show , he has gotten long chara development.
So ofc Arata feels empty next to him.

Anyway , i like Kana-chan , she was so cute when she came for Chihaya.

[LKK]

Originally Posted by warita

Also, this is something I have been wondering about this week. Is it in Japan a sign of love interest, when you give your number to the opposite sex? I thought that friends can exchange phone numbers just fine?
I mean, it is not just the latest Chihayafuru episode suggesting that giving your phone number to the opposite sex is the same as having love interest. In the last "another" episode Mei has given her number to Kouichi and it seemed like a bigger deal to me then a simple keitai number exchange should be.

Yes, normally friends in Japan exchange phone numbers. My understanding is that it's a common occurrence actually.

However in those 2 cases (sorry for the brief Another discussion), what makes those phone number gives significant is that both persons had previously indicated that they didn't want to be called. Mei hates cell phones. Arata flat out told Chihaya to not call him any more. By giving out their cell phone numbers, they are reversing their previously stated positions. Fans are taking those significant reversals and coloring them with romantic intentions. IMO, it's definite that Arata has a romantic interest in Chihaya. I see no other way to read that scene and the discussion between Taichi and him.

[warita]

Originally Posted by LKK

IMO, it's definite that Arata has a romantic interest in Chihaya. I see no other way to read that scene and the discussion between Taichi and him.

And I agree. Arata is interested in Chihaya and so is Taichi, and they both know it. The only oblivious is Chihaya.

However, what I dont understand is why he cant just give the number to Chihaya. He could just walk over to her and say: "Here you go, I changed my mind. Give me a ring when you feel like it." He doesnt need to ask Taichis permision, even if Chihaya was dating Taichi.... thats what I think.

[Forsaken_Infinity]

Originally Posted by warita

Also, this is something I have been wondering about this week. Is it in Japan a sign of love interest, when you give your number to the opposite sex? I thought that friends can exchange phone numbers just fine?
I mean, it is not just the latest Chihayafuru episode suggesting that giving your phone number to the opposite sex is the same as having love interest. In the last "another" episode Mei has given her number to Kouichi and it seemed like a bigger deal to me then a simple keitai number exchange should be.

Not necessarily. Asking a girl her number or giving her your number out of the blue would indeed be tactless but sharing numbers with close friends isn't that big a deal.

Arata was just being incredibly considerate. And that's something to like about his character - he is levelheaded and considerate. Remember how he didn't hold it against Taichi for stealing his glasses as a kid? That takes a big heart. Taichi is the most interesting character in the show, no doubt, but Arata isn't 2D at all. And the show hasn't portrayed him as infallible either - he gave up on Karata and was lame enough to turn his hate on his friends who made a long trip to come visit him out of sincere care. He is also someone who is growing. And him being considerate for Taichi is part of it.

And it only seemed like a bigger deal than a simple cell number exchange should be in "Another" because Mei had said earlier that she dislikes cell phones.

Originally Posted by LKK

IMO, it's definite that Arata has a romantic interest in Chihaya. I see no other way to read that scene and the discussion between Taichi and him.

Arata clearly stated his reason himself. He was being considerate for Taichi because he knows that Taichi is insecure about Arata when it comes to Chihaya and he thought they were already in a relationship. Whether he has a romantic interest in Chihaya is inconsequential as far as that scene goes. But the show always made it look like he had a degree of interest in her imo. From the childish fights with Taichi about whose fault it was that Chihaya was crying when they announced their respective departures to Taichi's solemn remark about how he understands why Arata would send Chihaya's birthday wish to him instead ("We both see Chihaya as belonging to both of us." ).

Of course, shippers are free to interpret it however. As far as my wishful thinking goes, I wish Arata would notice that neighborhood girl instead. Yuu-chan, was it? She was incredibly dedicated to him during his lamest years.

[Kirarakim]

Yep I think it is 100% clear that Arata has feelings for Chihaya.

And as much as it breaks my Taichi heart to say it, I'm leaning towards Chihaya having romantic feelings for Arata. Yes we can say those feelings are based on something she imagines but the way she reacts around Arata is just so fundamentally different than Taichi. Whereas with Taichi it feels more one sided on his part.

Oh well even if Taichi doesn't get the girl. I hope he at least triumphs in Karuta in the end.

Also I suppose the poem Chihaya said reminds her of Arata could be misleading. On one hand as Chihaya says it sounds romantic but it's really about two friends. So I suppose the romantic end is not 100% clear just yet.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

I am not feeling the same type of love for Taichi that so many posters seem to have with him. In a lot of ways, I still see a lot of flaws and negative aspects that others seem to overlook. However, I do agree that he has improved a lot since the beginning.

We're not overlooking his flaws, quite the contrary in fact. We like him because of them. He has flaws, he knows it, and he's trying his hardest to overcome them. That's what makes him such an interesting and likable character. He'd be a bit boring if he were perfect.

[LKK]

Originally Posted by warita

However, what I dont understand is why he cant just give the number to Chihaya. He could just walk over to her and say: "Here you go, I changed my mind. Give me a ring when you feel like it." He doesnt need to ask Taichis permision, even if Chihaya was dating Taichi.... thats what I think.

Originally Posted by Forsaken_Infinity

Arata clearly stated his reason himself. He was being considerate for Taichi because he knows that Taichi is insecure about Arata when it comes to Chihaya and he thought they were already in a relationship.

I agree with Forsaken_Infinity that Arata was being considerate of Taichi by not giving his number to Chihaya. Not going around Taichi's back, so to speak. But there's also a practical issue to consider. At the time that Arata gave Taichi the note, Arata knew that Chihaya wasn't at the tournament herself. If she had been competing, she would have been with Arata's Class A group. If she was watching, she would have been watching with Taichi. At the time Arata gave the note to Taichi, she simply wasn't there, so no direct approach was possible then.

[Forsaken_Infinity]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Yep I think it is 100% clear that Arata has feelings for Chihaya.

And as much as it breaks my Taichi heart to say it, I'm leaning towards Chihaya having romantic feelings for Arata. Yes we can say those feelings are based on something she imagines but the way she reacts around Arata is just so fundamentally different than Taichi. Whereas with Taichi it feels more one sided on his part.

Oh well even if Taichi doesn't get the girl. I hope he at least triumphs in Karuta in the end.

Also I suppose the poem Chihaya said reminds her of Arata could be misleading. On one hand as Chihaya says it sounds romantic but it's really about two friends. So I suppose the romantic end is not 100% clear just yet.

I really hope the anime doesn't try to wrap things up with an original ending that ties Chihaya up with either of the leads. Just keep things open and adapt more of the manga in some other season please please.

Also, you are wrong about Chihaya having romantic feelings for Arata. She is just as concerned with Taichi as she is with Arata, if not more. However, Taichi is always around her while Arata isn't. So the dramatization influences her thoughts about Arata more. Arata being the person who introduced her to Karuta - her one true love - doesn't help much with that either. As far as I am concerned, Arata is a Karuta god for Chihaya, and a valuable childhood friend, but nothing more. I don't think she is romantically interested in Taichi either though. But she certainly does get jealous of him being in a relationship - that's a start at least.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by warita

And I agree. Arata is interested in Chihaya and so is Taichi, and they both know it. The only oblivious is Chihaya.

However, what I dont understand is why he cant just give the number to Chihaya. He could just walk over to her and say: "Here you go, I changed my mind. Give me a ring when you feel like it." He doesnt need to ask Taichis permision, even if Chihaya was dating Taichi.... thats what I think.

I think it's a "guy code" kind of thing (there are cruder ways of saying it, too). Arata doesn't want to try and swoop in and steal Taichi's girl - except now he knows she's not, so it's fair game. Remember when he wished Chihaya happy birthday via Taichi, rather than directly?

Meanwhile, I think on some level Taichi may have felt it wasn't fair to make his move for Chihaya when Arata wasn't around to fight back. Now that Arata has more or less laid his cards on the table, perhaps Taichi will feel it's time to go to town himself.

[Forsaken_Infinity]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I think it's a "guy code" kind of thing (there are cruder ways of saying it, too). Arata doesn't want to try and swoop in and steal Taichi's girl - except now he knows she's not, so it's fair game. Remember when he wished Chihaya happy birthday via Taichi, rather than directly?

Meanwhile, I think on some level Taichi may have felt it wasn't fair to make his move for Chihaya when Arata wasn't around to fight back. Now that Arata has more or less laid his cards on the table, perhaps Taichi will feel it'time to go to town himself.

Most definitely the case. Taichi says it clearly that he understood why Arata made a birthday wish for Chihaya through him than directly - they both think she belongs to them both. It'd have been unfair for either one to make a move to monopolize her while keeping the other unaware of the move.

[warita]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Now that Arata has more or less laid his cards on the table, perhaps Taichi will feel it's time to go to town himself.

He better, I am rooting for him. I like Taichi a lot and I think he and Chihaya would be a nice couple.

As for the guys thing.... uhmmm, I am not really comfortable with it. It is Chihaya who should decide this. It concerns her and its her decision, yet Arata bypasses Chihaya as if though she had no say in this.

Anyways, I am getting the unpleasant feeling the romance in this anime will get a "lets be good friends forever" ending.

[hyperborealis]

Of course, Chihaya already has Arata's email address and phone number: she called him, remember, after she made Class A, and who can forget the flood of emails Arata finds from her when he logs onto his email account from the bookstore computer.

Arata certainly knows this. So the point of the note is, as Taichi realizes, to show consideration to Taichi, should he already be in a relationship with Chihaya. The other purpose of the note is to tell Chihaya that Arata is romantically interested in her. To give your phone number to a person when you both know the other already has it is a fairly direct hint that you want that person to call. Even Chihaya, who is famous for being oblivious to things like this, would likely understand Arata's meaning.

Arata has not confessed to Chihaya, yet. But he has acted, to give Taichi what is effectively a love letter to convey to Chihaya. No wonder Taichi declines! The contrast between Arata's direct action and Taichi's--well, furtiveness is plain and clear.

------

By the way, I could not disagree more strongly with the poster who thought that Arata's characterization is two dimensional. On all the key themes this episode insists upon--doing what you have to before doing what you like to, learning to be a person who doesn't run away--the manga has measured Arata, in a wonderful economy of portraiture, given his relative lack of presence in the narrative. As far as "doing what you have to" goes, Arata is the kid who delivered papers before school, who cared for his grandfather after his grandfather's stroke and dementia. And, in regards to running away, this episode itself records the final step in Arata's return, after having run away from karuta in the aftermath of his grandfather's death.

If the goal of the narrative is to bring Chihaya and Taichi into adulthood, why, Arata is already there. What is more adult than living through the final illness and death of a grandparent? or than working part-time to support the family? Arata's silent agony when his grandfather could no longer remember the karuta cards was one of the most extraordinary moments I have ever seen in any literary medium. By every significant measure--suffering, experience, responsibility--Arata is an adult.

I think in the end if Arata does win the love game, it will be since the mangaka admires the virtues of work and self-denial she associates with Arata's lower-class status. One of the surprising aspects of this show is its class consciousness--you will remember Yusei's comments about the existence of class distinctions when he enters Taichi's family mansion, or his barb to Taichi of a couple episodes ago, when he calls him a "stupid rich kid." In the contrast between city and country, between modernity and tradition, between wealth and poverty, the mangaka's preferences I think are instinctively toward the latter, and therefore toward Arata, who most closely personifies these related qualities.

[Forsaken_Infinity]

Originally Posted by hyperborealis

I think in the end if Arata does win the love game, it will be since the mangaka admires the virtues of work and self-denial she associates with Arata's lower-class status. One of the surprising aspects of this show is its class consciousness--you will remember Yusei's comments about the existence of class distinctions when he enters Taichi's family mansion, or his barb to Taichi of a couple episodes ago, when he calls him a "stupid rich kid." In the contrast between city and country, between modernity and tradition, between wealth and poverty, the mangaka's preferences I think are instinctively toward the latter, and therefore toward Arata, who most closely personifies these related qualities.

I don't think Arata is the mangaka's favorite in the love game ^^. Sure she may be sensitive about his low-class status etc. but she hasn't exactly portrayed Taichi as having an easier time either. Taichi is in a lot more pressure than Arata is - from his family, from within himself and from his unrequited love while we're not even sure that Arata sees Chihaya romantically (especially in the manga, from what I hear). Taichi is neither stupid, nor does he flaunt his wealth around to make life easier for himself. I don't see why you would think the Mangaka has something against Taichi and something for Arata really.

And as for your point about Chihaya already knowing his phone and email, well, Taichi knew that as well. I am pretty sure the email (not too sure about this one) and the number (pretty sure about this one) are different (he may have gotten a cell for himself now), otherwise, its kinda futile.

And wait, you think he was trying to tell Chihaya that he is romantically interested in her by sending her a note with his phone and mail through a guy he perceived to be her boyfriend and was thus being considerate for? Really? Because that makes no sense.

Why is the explanation given by Arata insufficient in the first place? He told Taichi straight out that he was being considerate for what he presumed was a couple of lovers. Nothing wrong with that whatsoever. Rather than Arata being romantically interested in Chihaya, I took that scene to mean almost the opposite - that he is a sincere adult, and a wonderfully responsible one at that who doesn't necessarily have romantic feelings for Chihaya.

[sikvod00]

Originally Posted by hyperborealis

I think in the end if Arata does win the love game, it will be since the mangaka admires the virtues of work and self-denial she associates with Arata's lower-class status. One of the surprising aspects of this show is its class consciousness--you will remember Yusei's comments about the existence of class distinctions when he enters Taichi's family mansion, or his barb to Taichi of a couple episodes ago, when he calls him a "stupid rich kid." In the contrast between city and country, between modernity and tradition, between wealth and poverty, the mangaka's preferences I think are instinctively toward the latter, and therefore toward Arata, who most closely personifies these related qualities.

Well, to be honest, you can easily attribute hard work and self-denial to a person like Taichi as well. Particularly the self-denial part. You have two individuals from very different socio-economic groups who both happen to be very good/exceptional people. That fact seems to undercut any notion of class preference from the mangaka. I do understand where you're coming from with regards to Arata being the underdog, and how that would make him the most suitable candidate to "win" in the love game. However, I would submit that was only the case early on in the show, going back to the flashbacks of their childhood.

But the situation changed ever since Arata moved away. Chihaya has built up this massive longing and expectation to see him once again that it was almost obsessive. As the saying goes, "absence makes the heart grow fonder". Of course while Chihaya cares deeply for Taichi, it's easy to overlook him since he's an "everyday" presence in her life. Arata: 1, Taichi: 0.

But here's another funny observation. Taichi is more developed as a character than Arata (by virtue of the fact that he has more screen time), and arguably the most developed character in the series. After depicting him as a "bratty rich kid" very early on, they do a 180 and go out of their way to portray him as a complex, conflicted, sympathetic and overall likable character. Where romance is involved, it's normally these more well-developed characters that "win". So Taichi has the advantage here. There are exceptions to this rule of course. Myself, GE and a few other posters here have seen a recent romance anime where they do the opposite:

Spoiler for the other anime:

Mashiro-Iro Symphony

So my take on who has a better chance of getting with Chihaya? It's 50/50 really. What's most funny is that both Taichi and Arata seem to think the other has an advantage on getting romantically involved with Chihaya.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Forsaken_Infinity

Also, you are wrong about Chihaya having romantic feelings for Arata. She is just as concerned with Taichi as she is with Arata, if not more. However, Taichi is always around her while Arata isn't. So the dramatization influences her thoughts about Arata more. Arata being the person who introduced her to Karuta - her one true love - doesn't help much with that either. As far as I am concerned, Arata is a Karuta god for Chihaya, and a valuable childhood friend, but nothing more. I don't think she is romantically interested in Taichi either though. But she certainly does get jealous of him being in a relationship - that's a start at least.

I don't think I am wrong. I think Chihaya doesn't realize her feelings yet but at the very least I think she has feelings stronger than just friendship for Arata. Of course that doesn't mean these stronger feelings are love necessarily, they may be more love out of admiration more so than romance. And yes the fact that Arata is not there all the time could also play a part in how she reacts differently between Taichi and Arata.

Also I am not saying she doesn't care about Taichi. But she can ignore when Taichi plays to watch Komano/Kana's match. And she can ignore Taichi's loss as soon as she hears that Arata is playing. Hence as I said it is fundamentally different when she thinks of Taichi VS Arata.

I am not necessarily saying Taichi has no chance at romance with Chihaya in the end but right now I am leaning more towards a Chihaya/Arata end. Although it would be interesting if the manga-ka subverts all the romantic sounding poems she linked to Chihaya/Arata and showed that these strong feelings could also be about lost friendship (I wouldn't mind that at all).

Also I don't think this romantic conclusion will finish at the end of the anime. I am sure it will be an open ending/friendship ending in this regard (which I am personally fine with) but I can't help but think about these characters longer than where the anime will probably take us.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by sikvod00

What's most funny is that both Taichi and Arata seem to think the other has an advantage on getting romantically involved with Chihaya.

Maybe that is why I think it is Arata myself because I identify with what Taichi is feeling.

[Guardian Enzo]

I have to strongly disagree that the mangaka favors Arata because of the class issue. No question, class is fascinatingly studied here, but I think Tachi is used as an example of how privilege is a two edged sword. Tachi is, if anything, the most troubled and introspective cast member, and the POV character in the show. The mangaka seems to favor all the characters, but it seems she's most sympathetic (if cruel) to Tachi.

[Kirarakim]

I would also say while Chihaya is the title character and our protagonist, Taichi is very much the deuteragonist. After Chihaya he gets the most screen time and arguably even more development than Chihaya (although I think both Taichi & Chihaya have flaws they need to overcome)

That doesn't mean Chihaya will end up with Taichi but I think it does mean this is just as much his character journey as Chihaya's.

I am also not saying Arata doesn't get development but of our 3 main characters, he seems to be the one that the other 2 are trying to reach. He's both Taichi and Chihaya's goal in a way.

[Forsaken_Infinity]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I have to strongly disagree that the mangaka favors Arata because of the class issue. No question, class is fascinatingly studied here, but I think Tachi is used as an example of how privilege is a two edged sword. Tachi is, if anything, the most troubled and introspective cast member, and the POV character in the show. The mangaka seems to favor all the characters, but it seems she's most sympathetic (if cruel) to Tachi.

Exactly this. Taichi is the PoV character and there is no way the mangaka despises him or favors Arata over him or anything of the sort.

Kirarakim, I think Chihaya being able to ignore Taichi's match to watch Kana's and her running off to watch Arata play instead of consoling Taichi are proofs of her being a Karuta nutcase without much tact - and that she kind of takes Taichi as a given - if anything. Why did she watch Kana's match instead of Taichi's? There wasn't any reason - she had to choose one and she's an absentminded moron so she chose whichever one she was already following. She regrets not having watched the match between Nishida and Taichi immediately afterwards.

And the feelings she holds for Arata are best described as deification. Certainly something beyond friendship but certainly not romantic interest.

Not that Taichi fares any better in the romantic front. Chihaya takes him for granted. I wish Taichi's other gf had been a bit more aggressive than she was - I would have loved to see Chihaya rage at having her friend stolen from her from right under her nose. More than that one scene which lead to ala more Arata melodrama when she came across his number in her cellphone.

In any case, I don't care who ends up with who. The grown up version of Chihaya is bland and uninteresting anyway. I would much prefer it if Taichi were to rekindle his relationship with that sweet girl who called him "Ta-chan" and if Arata would acknowledge "Yuu-chan" who stuck with him through those 18 months when he was acting as pathetically as he ever has. Chihaya can go with Porky for all I care. That might actually be a good fit considering Porky is down to earth and pretty discreet and assertive - just the type to reel in the likes of Chihaya.

I disagree that Arata is the goal of the other characters. Taichi's goal was stated very clearly by himself this past episode. It's to be a man who can hold himself in high regards. Chihaya's goal is, well, to be Queen or whatever. And that's not the same as Arata. Being friends with him is something they both desire but that's different from a goal.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Yep I think it is 100% clear that Arata has feelings for Chihaya.

And as much as it breaks my Taichi heart to say it, I'm leaning towards Chihaya having romantic feelings for Arata. Yes we can say those feelings are based on something she imagines but the way she reacts around Arata is just so fundamentally different than Taichi. Whereas with Taichi it feels more one sided on his part.

Oh well even if Taichi doesn't get the girl. I hope he at least triumphs in Karuta in the end.

Also I suppose the poem Chihaya said reminds her of Arata could be misleading. On one hand as Chihaya says it sounds romantic but it's really about two friends. So I suppose the romantic end is not 100% clear just yet.

I thought the poem pretty much killed the idea of Chihaya having romantic feelings for Arata. "Looks like love, but isn't" is the aspect that resonated with her. Of course, it may change, and at least she's aware that her behavior makes it look like she's in love with him.