(CR) Grancrest Senki (Record of Grancrest War)

[HtwoN]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Also, couldn't the infantry men hide behind stakes or something?

I don't think they prepared for a cavalry charge.

[wuhugm]

So once again, Castle Unicorn not utilized for Siege

The most defendable Castle always failed to be used for defense

What an irony

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by HtwoN

The equipment is pretty standard for foot soldiers. In medieval time, only knights could afford full plate armor.

I know.
In Grancrests case however almost every army has plate armored non-knight soldiers. Just look at Rossini-Sistinia as an example. While theirs wasn't full plate it was still proper plate armor.

The fleeing Lord's army soldiers were also far better equipped, donning an almost full upper plate

In Lassic's army each and every single soldier has potentially full plate armor. (potentially as their legs were covered)
His knights are obviously the ones on the horses. However they have almost the same equipment his pikemen got. The only visible difference is a shield and the absence of a horse.

Villar's brother's soldiers wear a heavy breastplate, arm shins and even a neck guard.

Theo on the other hand appears to have Knights who we have yet to see though. (at least he said the Knights will be enough) - Well technically we did see one of his knights(the Fort commander) who was slightly better equipped, but still far below the general standard.

Fact is that Theo's men stick out like a sour thumb compared to the majority of all other armies, by being far less protective. (Also not even polished)

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

He didn't have archers in Sistina because he only had Sistinan peasant militias then. Once he rejoined the main fight, he had his regular troops again, plus the troops of whichever other lords went with him to attack Castle Unicorn.

Only partly true as several Sistinian soldiers defected to his side. i.e he should have had some archers or crossbowmen. It was also not just villages that joined his cause but at least one town too.
Fun thing is that his army was shown to have crossbows (via one of the free lords though) in EP 3


Oh and I nearly forgot:
Theo is also the ruler of Dartannia now, as he has Milza's crest. lol
Oh and regarding
So yeah he should be Duke now.

[LG-MAX 2.o]

Am I the only one who thinks it's strange that they are investing so much in action scenes in an anime that clearly is not doing so much success?

[HtwoN]

Originally Posted by LG-MAX 2.o

Am I the only one who thinks it's strange that they are investing so much in action scenes in an anime that clearly is not doing so much success?

I would hold that judgment until the DVD/BR sale numbers are in.

The anime itself isn't that good but somehow I really like it.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Applehell

The point about cannons was mainly illustrate my boarder point about Grancrest=/=Earth. Whatever conditions that spur military and weapons do not match ours and their plenty stuff alien to our history.

As for explosion magic is concerned, Villar only has 4 Mages in his employ. Other than possible Margaret we don't know if any of the other have that spell. Most mages seem highly specialized in one field or another which Siluca's versatility is kinda made a big deal out of. Yet she can't even make a basic fire spell to light up some wood. So it's best not make assumptions about what they can do or not without basis.

As for gunpowder, okay I'll conceded on that to you, but doesn't explain why their no standard cannons. Even shipcastle only has the one big cannon from what I recall much only Villar is only one so far with that magic lens cannon. The only rational is that another ancient artifact that can't be reproduced which is typical of fantasy settings.




I don't remember ever saying you did. I'm also being facetious about the laser crossbows. I never said that's they actually are, but that's what look like. Anyone can tell that clear work like normal normal crossbows, but it doesn't explain their power other than it might be some sort of magitech weapon. We don't really need any indepth exposition about them so it doesn't really matter.



No. I'm explaining why Villar's tactics consistent with everyone else regardless of whether we consider them mistakes or not.



Yet neither of these thing exist in the setting. You can't blame Villar for no having access to things don't exist. As I have reiterated several times already, Grancrest weapons development is clear not following our own. it doesn't have to and especially when it has own spin on things.



Good point about the tar. This actually exists in the world and might be used in similar we do. While may not have turned things around there less of an excuse for Villar not to have that.



If you mean that viking all came from climbing up the ramparts, than yes. But rampant were wide and stuff with soldiers. Unlike Marrine's troops the Nords weren't in a linear space where they could be funneled shoot down as easily.

Also re-watching the episode again, apparently the Nord's homeland exist halfway across the world. Villar never expected them to show up at all. nor with their numbers Altirk's Navy seemed to have been crushed too. It's more obvious that their were deciding factor here without them Marrine probably would have been waited out for months. I wonder if he was familiar with how the Nords fight for all that matter given the lack of contact.

Sorry, I totally forgot to respond to this earlier.

Ad magical arbalests:
Yes we don't get any explanation on them at all, which is why the only thing we can build on is a theory. And as there are literally no signs of the Arbalest itself being special, the only thing that remains that could be special is the projectile.

Edit:
Something I just realized:
The info in the spoiler is vital for understanding how I think the Arbalests work.

Spoiler for Manga comparison to EP 4 - referring to the arbalest and siege weapons:

The ones referring to the Valdrid weapons as heavy bowgun were apparently the Valdrid Knights - they however said ' they got a heavy bowgun too', while referring to a defensive, stationary ballista. - it is however still larger than the Arbalests Valdrid's Knights carry.

So, how does it come that the arbalests are smaller, yet pack more punch?
There is something all of us completely forgot the entire time: The Valdrid Knights all have crests, as knight is a court rank.And as we know, crests can be used to empower weapons too. So basically the knights make the arbalests more powerful using their crests, similar to how Theo strengthens his sword.


Ad Vikings:
The ramp being too wide is exactly my point.
They should have let them up there and fallen back to the keep as there was but a single entrance which they could have used as a choke point.
Villar not expecting them to show up is another one of his mistakes btw.

Ad missing siege weapons and equipment:

Spoiler for Manga Comparison; Equivalent chapter to EP 4's Battle:

After readng the manga version of this battle I can tell you that there are vast differences. Aside from the magical arbalests (apparently called heavy bowgun) doing much less damage per shot to walls, Theo's soldiers also had defensive ballistas.

Also Theo seems to be in the possession of some a tad heavier armored soldiers too, mainly captains.
Marianne's Knights also look a tad less heavily armored

So no idea why they don't add them to the anime - maybe they are too hard to draw. Might be possible because I really can't think of any anime titles showing siege weapons without having to use google, and even then the results are pretty few.

So we can say that they generally exist in that world, the anime staff just didn't include them for weird reasons.

Ad explosion magic:
Even if none of his mages were able to do that (what I kinda doubt btw) there was a perfectly fine mage in the employ of one of his vassals.
There was apparently also more than enough time beforehand to blow up the bridge.

Going by how they had gunpowder available they didn't really need one though.

Add cannons in particular:
I bet he ship castle and ships in general will at least have ballistas too. Though that kinda makes me afraid that ballistas will damage the ship beyond its masts...

As for the ship-castle:
Even for a fantasy setting, them being unable to reproduce a cannon seems rather strange. The argument would imho hold better if it was there but no one knew how to use it.
The really interesting thing though is that they seem to be aware how much gunpowder they can put in without the cannon breaching. Which again indicates that they should be able to build more of them.

[kampfer91]

You was good son , real good , may be even the best .

So light cavalry men beat men with shield and pike by charging straight at them ? yeaahhhhhhhhh right sorry not work like that irl . The author just buy into that fantasy cavalry charge crap.

[orion]

Originally Posted by LG-MAX 2.o

Am I the only one who thinks it's strange that they are investing so much in action scenes in an anime that clearly is not doing so much success?

It sucks you in with the battles. I came back starting with the liberation of Sistina. Theo vs Milza was a wonderful battle. Though I hope Theo gets better with each battle and doesn't continue to rely on defending to the point of opponent fatigue before swooping in for the kill.

[HtwoN]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Something I just realized:
The info in the spoiler is vital for understanding how I think the Arbalests work.

Spoiler for Manga comparison to EP 4 - referring to the arbalest and siege weapons:

The ones referring to the Valdrid weapons as heavy bowgun were apparently the Valdrid Knights - they however said ' they got a heavy bowgun too', while referring to a defensive, stationary ballista. - it is however still larger than the Arbalests Valdrid's Knights carry.

Yeah, I recommend reading the manga. It's much more detailed. The art is so pretty too.

I can't wait for the Battle of Castle Unicorn. The manga may make it much better.

[orion]

Originally Posted by HtwoN

Yeah, I recommend reading the manga. It's much more detailed. The art is so pretty too.

I can't wait for the Battle of Castle Unicorn. The manga may make it much better.

You mean they won't give up the castle because Milza is dead?

[HtwoN]

Originally Posted by orion

You mean they won't give up the castle because Milza is dead?

No, I mean the manga version of the fall of Castle Unicorn, in episode 10 or so. The manga is much better than the anime.

[Firefly00]

Originally Posted by pervypig

^ Alesia worked cos Vercingetorix did not have magic cell-phones to coordinate their attacks at the same time. But I guess Milza's mage should have paid his phone-bills on time too. But seriously, these episodes go by so fast and skip over so much that it's like watching a comedy.

Question - is anyone in that setting researching the capability to eavesdrop on, disrupt, and/or spoof such calls? That'd be an interesting plot point right there; consider the real-world example of the Enigma encryption system (Wikipedia). And let's say someone had figured out how to eavesdrop on such communications - then they have to walk a proverbial tightrope, because if they end up revealing that capability, then it becomes much less useful.

Originally Posted by kampfer91

You was good son , real good , may be even the best .

So light cavalry men beat men with shield and pike by charging straight at them ? yeaahhhhhhhhh right sorry not work like that irl . The author just buy into that fantasy cavalry charge crap.

A while ago I'd mentioned that the combat portion of the upcoming game adaptation seems reminiscent of Bladestorm... and for all the liberties that game takes with its retelling of the Hundred Years' War (war elephants, for one - and then you get to the alternate campaign added for the remastering) Koei Tecmo and Omega Force (which latter should not be confused with these guys) actually got this bit right - cavalry charging pikemen who're set to receive them are just begging to take the Final Jump.

On another note - took a look at the clip LG-MAX 2.o designated; 'Duel of the Fates' would have fit nicely... and so would 'Zero' (the final duel BGM from Ace Combat Zero). I'm going to have to block out some time and watch this series in its entirety... and, just for fun, see how closely Theo's outfit can be approximated over in Star Trek Online.

[Panzercracker]

Just watch episode 17. The spear formation with sheilds and spears can't stop even the sword cavalry (not lance cavalry) is really ridiculous. And the formation of spearmen despite is not quite right but with that mass, the cavalry charge will still suffer heavy damage. Yeah, I knew that got inspired by KoeiTecmo and Omega Force, but Grancrest Senki is not Bladestorm and at least they should research some basic of medieval warfare, and give charge of lance cavalry instead sword cavarly into spear formation.

Now, I'm curious how that battle in Light Novel versions.

[wuhugm]

Is there a list somewhere of each crest' ability?

The wikia is dead

^Maybe Mirza's crest allows Sword Cavalry to charge through Spear Formation?
Theo did say he's weakened coz sharing the crest' power

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by HtwoN

Yeah, I recommend reading the manga. It's much more detailed. The art is so pretty too.

I can't wait for the Battle of Castle Unicorn. The manga may make it much better.

I already read the it before the anime started -I just stopped when the anime came out and never saw the ballistas until now.

Oh and they use the wand as a phone more frequently too there.

Originally Posted by Panzercracker

Just watch episode 17. The spear formation with sheilds and spears can't stop even the sword cavalry (not lance cavalry) is really ridiculous. And the formation of spearmen despite is not quite right but with that mass, the cavalry charge will still suffer heavy damage. Yeah, I knew that got inspired by KoeiTecmo and Omega Force, but Grancrest Senki is not Bladestorm and at least they should research some basic of medieval warfare, and give charge of lance cavalry instead sword cavarly into spear formation.

Now, I'm curious how that battle in Light Novel versions.

Milza actually had a lot of losses, the most dangerous for his charge would be the front line.

Originally Posted by wuhugm

Is there a list somewhere of each crest' ability?

The wikia is dead

^Maybe Mirza's crest allows Sword Cavalry to charge through Spear Formation?
Theo did say he's weakened coz sharing the crest' power

Not even the Manga is too clear about crests other than the King of Savis or Theos.

Lassic's 'Spartan' can only be guessed (probably raising strength in melee combat), while Marianne's might raise durability or general stats.

That being said its even unclear whether this actually is Marianne's flag, as one of her Knights might be a Baron. Whatever they use is referred to as 'Holy crests and Dragoon flag', by Aisheala though.

Priscilla's crest has healing powers and is 3D

[pervypig]

Epic battle... and I really like Theo's dark look in the end of the fight: "gonna ask as a formality: your crest or your life?"

Other than that, it really watches like a comedy with all the skipped scenes.

P.S: Not going to mention the obvious lols already noticed by everyone, but when Milza's mage took poison in the end, i was thinking he would show up next to Marianne the next ep...

[AntonKutovoi]

Originally Posted by Firefly00

A while ago I'd mentioned that the combat portion of the upcoming game adaptation seems reminiscent of Bladestorm... and for all the liberties that game takes with its retelling of the Hundred Years' War (war elephants, for one - and then you get to the alternate campaign added for the remastering) Koei Tecmo and Omega Force (which latter should not be confused with these guys) actually got this bit right - cavalry charging pikemen who're set to receive them are just begging to take the Final Jump.

It's kinda off-topic, but in Bladestorm cavalry was pretty useless in general. It's all about spears and swords. And if you unlocked ninjias, then you're completely unstoppable

[alex_drian]

Originally Posted by orion

It sucks you in with the battles. I came back starting with the liberation of Sistina. Theo vs Milza was a wonderful battle. Though I hope Theo gets better with each battle and doesn't continue to rely on defending to the point of opponent fatigue before swooping in for the kill.

Fuck that, defensive battle against so strong foe is not just a fair tactic but only of the smartest when the enemy obviously overpower you.

[alex_drian]

Btw, was impressive the last stand of Mirza shake off to Irvin and co, I give him that. The man was arabic Steve Rogers.

[Firefly00]

Originally Posted by Panzercracker

Just watch episode 17. The spear formation with sheilds and spears can't stop even the sword cavalry (not lance cavalry) is really ridiculous. And the formation of spearmen despite is not quite right but with that mass, the cavalry charge will still suffer heavy damage. Yeah, I knew that got inspired by KoeiTecmo and Omega Force, but Grancrest Senki is not Bladestorm and at least they should research some basic of medieval warfare, and give charge of lance cavalry instead sword cavarly into spear formation.

You are correct, one is a game, and the other is an anime whose game treatment looks like it will have a bit more depth than said game. That said, we seem to be in agreement that one, cavalry charging head-on into a ready spear/pike formation won't be in for a good time; and two, the Grancrest writers should have paid a bit more attention to the basics of medeival warfare.

On another note, I would point out that the original soundtrack (2 CDs' worth of tuneage) is scheduled for release in late June.