The Character Discussion Thread of SOS団 Member: Yuki Nagato

[aegisofrime]

But of course it doesn't matter, since Kyon trusts her most of all. And of course, Kyon is the gatekeeper to God or whatever you call Haruhi, and that makes her the most powerful member of the DITE.

[edkedkedk]

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

She willingly had restrictions placed upon her powers. Which basically had no visible effect at all.

*e* On the other hand...

Spoiler for later stuff:

She also has a "supervisor" of sorts, in the form of Emiri Kimidori. I don't recall whether this was as a result of what she did or if it was always that way.

She's still as powerful as ever, I see. Also, about

Spoiler for Later stuff:

Emiri Kimidori, I always thought that her re-appearance in the Student Council was to on one hand 'supervise' Yuki, and on the other to keep checks on the President (who is a really sneaky guy). Then again, Kimidori isn't much of a threat to Yuki in my opinion, given how she totally owned Ryoko in an alien VS alien deathmatch. Unless, of course, Yuki's restricted powers were somehow given to Kimidori...

Originally Posted by aegisofrime

But of course it doesn't matter, since Kyon trusts her most of all. And of course, Kyon is the gatekeeper to God or whatever you call Haruhi, and that makes her the most powerful member of the DITE.

To me, Kyon's protection of Yuki doesn't really mean a thing when it comes to the DITE. For goodness sake, they can reconstruct things out of pure data and create false evidences, who's to say they can't take Kyon's protection of Yuki out of the picture?

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Originally Posted by edkedkedk

To me, Kyon's protection of Yuki doesn't really mean a thing when it comes to the DITE. For goodness sake, they can reconstruct things out of pure data and create false evidences, who's to say they can't take Kyon's protection of Yuki out of the picture?

They'd have to go remarkably out of their way to do that, as simply offing Kyon ain't gonna work, for obvious reasons.

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by edkedkedk

Spoiler for Later stuff:

Emiri Kimidori, I always thought that her re-appearance in the Student Council was to on one hand 'supervise' Yuki, and on the other to keep checks on the President (who is a really sneaky guy). Then again, Kimidori isn't much of a threat to Yuki in my opinion, given how she totally owned Ryoko in an alien VS alien deathmatch. Unless, of course, Yuki's restricted powers were somehow given to Kimidori...

Spoiler for spoiler:

I wouldn't bank on it. For one, presumably the Data Overmind wouldn't assign Kimidori as Yuki's handler/supervisor if she couldn't take her out if need be. Secondly, Rule #1 when dealing with moe, potentially deadly girls is "Beware the quiet ones." Ryoko was hella talkative, and the considerably quieter Yuki took her out handily. Kimidori only appears like three or four times in the series at all and has like four lines. She makes Yuki seem gabby by comparison...

But most of this "Kimidori is supervising Yuki" stuff is just fanon anyway, as it's never stated in the novels. I'm not sure they even go any further than just speculating that she's an interface, actually (tons of circumstantial evidence, though)...

[worldruined]

Originally Posted by quigonkenny

Spoiler for spoiler:

But most of this "Kimidori is supervising Yuki" stuff is just fanon anyway, as it's never stated in the novels.

Spoiler for Editor in Chief:

As we leisurely walked on, Koizumi turned his face to the window in the corridor,

"Kimidori Emiri-san is one of Nagato-san's colleagues. There's no mistaking that."

That's just as I thought. Kimidori-san coming to us with a request at the time of the kamadouma; that's just too much of a coincidence. If it was just that, I might have been convinced that the whole thing was just arranged by Nagato and that everything was good, but considering the current situation, our encounter back then was no accident. Thinking about what kind of colleague she is worries me.

"There was also the case of Asakura Ryouko. There is, however, no need to worry about that point anymore. It seems like Kimidori-san and Nagato-san have a somewhat closer connection. At least they haven't shown any hostility between each other."

I have an idea why. It didn't appear like they were on good terms. But it didn't seem like it was going to get worse.

"We in the 'Organization' wanted to evaluate our intelligence gathering capability a little. Though they weren't that many, the 'Organization' contacted some TFEI's similar to Nagato-san, in an attempt to understand their intentions. While they were by no means cooperative, we were able to make some deductions based on bits and pieces of conversation. It seems like Kimidori-san was dispatched by a school within the Integrated Data Sentient Entity which is different from Nagato-san's. However, it is different from Asakura Ryouko's; we know that they aren't aggressive."

I, having listened to Koizumi talk about that gossip, also had the same hunch, and since nothing was going to start anytime soon, neither Koizumi nor I were anxious.

Despite knowing that even aliens must have diversity, for sure Kimidori-san is one. She seemed to warn Nagato, who had become absolutely furious in the Student Council room, to inaction, so she might be from a peaceable school.

"That may be so. We concluded that there was no need to be overly conscious of her. What I think, is that Kimidori-san is Nagato-san's chaperone. I do not know since when, but it seems she has settled into that role for now."

Make of it what you will.

[edkedkedk]

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

They'd have to go remarkably out of their way to do that, as simply offing Kyon ain't gonna work, for obvious reasons.

Offing Kyon isn't in their best interests, but reshaping things a little so that Kyon forgets Yuki or isn't as protective of her? Possible.

Originally Posted by quigonkenny

Spoiler for spoiler:

I wouldn't bank on it. For one, presumably the Data Overmind wouldn't assign Kimidori as Yuki's handler/supervisor if she couldn't take her out if need be. Secondly, Rule #1 when dealing with moe, potentially deadly girls is "Beware the quiet ones." Ryoko was hella talkative, and the considerably quieter Yuki took her out handily. Kimidori only appears like three or four times in the series at all and has like four lines. She makes Yuki seem gabby by comparison...

But most of this "Kimidori is supervising Yuki" stuff is just fanon anyway, as it's never stated in the novels. I'm not sure they even go any further than just speculating that she's an interface, actually (tons of circumstantial evidence, though)...

Spoiler for Aliens fight:

I'll like to see the Student Council confront the SOS Brigade, and then the aliens settle it in yet another fight sequence Beware the silent ones, yes, but as stated before Yuki is especially talented even by the standards of the DITE. Unless Kimidori turns out to be some tsundere that can go berserker mode on Yuki, talent > power for me.

Originally Posted by worldruined

Spoiler for Editor in Chief:

As we leisurely walked on, Koizumi turned his face to the window in the corridor,

"Kimidori Emiri-san is one of Nagato-san's colleagues. There's no mistaking that."

That's just as I thought. Kimidori-san coming to us with a request at the time of the kamadouma; that's just too much of a coincidence. If it was just that, I might have been convinced that the whole thing was just arranged by Nagato and that everything was good, but considering the current situation, our encounter back then was no accident. Thinking about what kind of colleague she is worries me.

"There was also the case of Asakura Ryouko. There is, however, no need to worry about that point anymore. It seems like Kimidori-san and Nagato-san have a somewhat closer connection. At least they haven't shown any hostility between each other."

I have an idea why. It didn't appear like they were on good terms. But it didn't seem like it was going to get worse.

"We in the 'Organization' wanted to evaluate our intelligence gathering capability a little. Though they weren't that many, the 'Organization' contacted some TFEI's similar to Nagato-san, in an attempt to understand their intentions. While they were by no means cooperative, we were able to make some deductions based on bits and pieces of conversation. It seems like Kimidori-san was dispatched by a school within the Integrated Data Sentient Entity which is different from Nagato-san's. However, it is different from Asakura Ryouko's; we know that they aren't aggressive."

I, having listened to Koizumi talk about that gossip, also had the same hunch, and since nothing was going to start anytime soon, neither Koizumi nor I were anxious.

Despite knowing that even aliens must have diversity, for sure Kimidori-san is one. She seemed to warn Nagato, who had become absolutely furious in the Student Council room, to inaction, so she might be from a peaceable school.

"That may be so. We concluded that there was no need to be overly conscious of her. What I think, is that Kimidori-san is Nagato-san's chaperone. I do not know since when, but it seems she has settled into that role for now."

Make of it what you will.

If Koizumi says it, then it's probably true. He's a smart chap, that one. Then again, how many schools of thought ARE there in the DITE!?

[ultimatemegax]

Originally Posted by edkedkedk

If Koizumi says it, then it's probably true. He's a smart chap, that one. Then again, how many schools of thought ARE there in the DITE!?

I wholeheartedly agree with your assertion. In the Intrigues novel translation, Nagato says that she is a part of the main school of thought while Ryoko was part of the extremists. She knows of four other schools: "the Moderates, the Innovative, the Compromise, and the Thinking parties." There may be more than those 6 that she is not aware of, but those were the ones listed in that novel. As for which school Kimidori-san belongs in, it is not listed to my knowledge.

Novel 9 spoiler

Spoiler:

Given that she also appears as a waitress in the cafe where Kyon meets the Anti-SOS Brigade, she may be a part of the Moderate school of thought, but that is purely speculation on my part.

[darksassin]

Spoiler for vol 7:

Even if she didn’t know why, I was sure that Nagato had means to find out, so when the word
“No” escaped her lips, I didn’t feel uneasy. I mean, all she had to do was to perform that
synchronization thingy to find out.But Nagato’s next reply totally betrayed my expectations.

“No. In my current state, there is no way that I can synchronize with my past or future self.”
Before I had a chance to ask why, Nagato said,“Because there is a restriction program.”
I still don’t get it. Why?“My freedom is currently being limited, since there is still the possibility that I may go astray again. This is what they have decided.”

"This restriction rubbish, was it placed by your boss?"“The Integrated Data Sentient Entity has approved of it.”Nagato’s expressionless face appeared to be different from usual. “But it was placed by me personally, by my own will.”

Nagato said indifferently."A password is required to lift the seal, and the password is governed by someone else. My will alone is insufficient to disable the program. And I have no intentions of doing so.”

It can be assumed that Emiri hold the password. Maybe she and Yuki is at the same level but after the incident, she has been tasked to chaperone Yuki

[edkedkedk]

Originally Posted by darksassin

Spoiler for vol 7:

Even if she didn’t know why, I was sure that Nagato had means to find out, so when the word
“No” escaped her lips, I didn’t feel uneasy. I mean, all she had to do was to perform that
synchronization thingy to find out.But Nagato’s next reply totally betrayed my expectations.

“No. In my current state, there is no way that I can synchronize with my past or future self.”
Before I had a chance to ask why, Nagato said,“Because there is a restriction program.”
I still don’t get it. Why?“My freedom is currently being limited, since there is still the possibility that I may go astray again. This is what they have decided.”

"This restriction rubbish, was it placed by your boss?"“The Integrated Data Sentient Entity has approved of it.”Nagato’s expressionless face appeared to be different from usual. “But it was placed by me personally, by my own will.”

Nagato said indifferently."A password is required to lift the seal, and the password is governed by someone else. My will alone is insufficient to disable the program. And I have no intentions of doing so.”

It can be assumed that Emiri hold the password. Maybe she and Yuki is at the same level but after the incident, she has been tasked to chaperone Yuki

Now I understand what the line in Yuki, Muon, Madobe Nite meant. Interesting...

[darksassin]

She also said that the restriction is placed by her own will, i.e she limiting herself, right? by her own will also mean that she at least has some kind of emotion or guilty feeling for the incident and wanted to act by her own will , not predetermined.

btw edkedk, what line do you mean? some part of Yuki, Muon Madobe Nite or the whole song? Just curios.

btw again, sorry for asking here, but does anyone by chance know the translation of greed's accident? Just asking...

[edkedkedk]

Originally Posted by darksassin

She also said that the restriction is placed by her own will, i.e she limiting herself, right? by her own will also mean that she at least has some kind of emotion or guilty feeling for the incident and wanted to act by her own will , not predetermined.

She has shown that she was sorry about what she did (but I don't blame her, anyways). You're right, I think she never wants to lose control of herself ever again.

Originally Posted by darksassin

btw edkedk, what line do you mean? some part of Yuki, Muon Madobe Nite or the whole song? Just curios.

I had to make sure the timing of the publication of Volume 7 was before Yuki, Muon, Madobe Nite, in order not to make any assumptions. As it turns out, the first chorus of the song matched with what Yuki said in Volume 7.

Spoiler for Yuki, Muon, Madobe Nite:

If even I possess but one single desire,
I would publish "From the Start" in my memories and read it by the window
A red symbol appears on the pages and breaks out into dance
I think, "I'm about to be lured out," and I'm doing something about it, but
When I murmur the forbidden words, it will end...

The last line especially caught my attention. Imagine what would happen if she caves in and goes Disappearance one more time, this time permanently... That's right, all the rubbish about DITE lording over her will end.

[Tabasco]

Originally Posted by edkedkedk

It's also sorta heartbreaking. She's going to be haunted by the fact that she actually got twisted by data overload to the point where she lost control of her 'reasoning' and original purpose. And she must live in fear (if that's possible for her) that one day she might repeat the actions again. Fear of her own powers and knowing what she can do, so she stopped it. Yet she can't deny her mission, so she needs to collect more and more data and information. The internal turmoil must be... unimaginable.

She does have an unusually sad character arc for such an upbeat series, no denying that.


If Emiri was around before the Disappearance incident, I have to suspect that all the schools have representatives on site. Why Emiri of them has the keys I don't know, she could well have been just another backup for Yuki. Maybe the DITE picked whomever of the available interfaces was the most psychologically stable?

[darksassin]

Originally Posted by Tabasco

She does have an unusually sad character arc for such an upbeat series, no denying that.


If Emiri was around before the Disappearance incident, I have to suspect that all the schools have representatives on site. Why Emiri of them has the keys I don't know, she could well have been just another backup for Yuki. Maybe the DITE picked whomever of the available interfaces was the most psychologically stable?

She was around before the Disappearance incident, if I am not mistaken. She plays the role of the computer club president's girlfriend during the cave cricket incident. I assume that she and Yuki cooperate and planned so that the SOS Brigade involved in the incident. I mean , with her abilities, Yuki can easily solve the problem. she also knew from the start what exactly happen.

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by edkedkedk

She has shown that she was sorry about what she did (but I don't blame her, anyways). You're right, I think she never wants to lose control of herself ever again.

I'm not so sure.

Spoiler for Volumes 7 and 4 and Snow Mountain Syndrome:

Supposedly the things that caused her to create the Yukiverse in the first place came about so gradually that she didn't really see them coming. I believe she had a line somewhere where she states that the "errors built up" or something (I feel blind without Baka-Tsuki to check anymore). Well, if anything, being able to synchronize with future selves would be a defense against that happening again, as it would be blatantly obvious in comparison if the future her had more "errors" and the younger her could compensate to remove or diminish them. Ifshe doesn't synchronize and she gains more errors, it would again be gradual, and she would be more likely to relapse unless she's actively monitoring herself.

Also, go back to the post-Snow Mountain flashback in the Intrigues Prologue. When post-SnowMountain!Yuki goes back and "resets" Disappearance!Yuki (with the nanomachines from 3ya!Yuki), the now post-Disappearance!Yuki asks to synchronize with pSM!Yuki, and she says no. And the reason she gives isn't "I can't because Kimidori/Kyon/whoever hasn't given me authorization to", it's "I don't want to". I posit that, as suggested in the theory above, pD!Yuki would have sensed that pSM!Yuki had gained some "errors" in the meantime (I imagine she picked up a number during Snow Mountain Syndrome, and she definitely picked a few up during her conversation with Kyon at the end of Disappearance) and may have tried to fix/avoid those errors, which pSM!Yuki did not want.

And then there's the whole "ignorance is bliss" free will argument, of course. If she doesn't synchronize, she's comparatively blind to future events and is no longer locked into Dr. Manhattan Mode when it comes to fulfilling future events. "There is no fate but what you make" and all that (ironic saying that in relation to an artificial lifeform who is also an erstwhile time traveller).

She doesn't want to hurt Kyon again, but she hasn't given up on him yet. She's amazingly complex for what is on paper an emotionless doll. No wonder she's Tanigawa-sensei's favorite character...

[darksassin]

Originally Posted by quigonkenny

I'm not so sure.

Spoiler for Volumes 7 and 4 and Snow Mountain Syndrome:

Supposedly the things that caused her to create the Yukiverse in the first place came about so gradually that she didn't really see them coming. I believe she had a line somewhere where she states that the "errors built up" or something (I feel blind without Baka-Tsuki to check anymore). Well, if anything, being able to synchronize with future selves would be a defense against that happening again, as it would be blatantly obvious in comparison if the future her had more "errors" and the younger her could compensate to remove or diminish them. Ifshe doesn't synchronize and she gains more errors, it would again be gradual, and she would be more likely to relapse unless she's actively monitoring herself.

Also, go back to the post-Snow Mountain flashback in the Intrigues Prologue. When post-SnowMountain!Yuki goes back and "resets" Disappearance!Yuki (with the nanomachines from 3ya!Yuki), the now post-Disappearance!Yuki asks to synchronize with pSM!Yuki, and she says no. And the reason she gives isn't "I can't because Kimidori/Kyon/whoever hasn't given me authorization to", it's "I don't want to". I posit that, as suggested in the theory above, pD!Yuki would have sensed that pSM!Yuki had gained some "errors" in the meantime (I imagine she picked up a number during Snow Mountain Syndrome, and she definitely picked a few up during her conversation with Kyon at the end of Disappearance) and may have tried to fix/avoid those errors, which pSM!Yuki did not want.

And then there's the whole "ignorance is bliss" free will argument, of course. If she doesn't synchronize, she's comparatively blind to future events and is no longer locked into Dr. Manhattan Mode when it comes to fulfilling future events. "There is no fate but what you make" and all that (ironic saying that in relation to an artificial lifeform who is also an erstwhile time traveller).

She doesn't want to hurt Kyon again, but she hasn't given up on him yet. She's amazingly complex for what is on paper an emotionless doll. No wonder she's Tanigawa-sensei's favorite character...

She knew that she will "malfunction" and crate another universe 3 years ago.

Spoiler for nothing excactly:

Standing there was the figure of the last person to come visit me, Nagato Yuki.
As usual, Nagato said without any emotion,
"I am responsible for everything that has happened."
For some reason, I felt nostalgic at hearing this calm voice.
"My punishment is currently being assessed."
I lifted my head and asked,
"Assessed by whom?"
"The Integrated Data Sentient Entity."
Nagato said calmly, as though it had all happened to someone else instead.
Of course, Nagato had long known she would create a ruckus on the morning of December 18th.
Because I had gone to visit Nagato three years ago with the adult Asahina-san. She knew all
along, and she tried her best to prevent it from happening. Yet there was no way to stop the tide.
Sometimes even if you knew what was about to happen, you just couldn't avoid it. No, it was
possible to avert it...
I suddenly thought of the behavior and mannerisms of Nagato after summer, which were slightly
different from before,
"But," I interrupted her, "If you knew you were going to go astray three years ago, you could've
told me any time, couldn't you? Whether it was after the school festival, or before the baseball
tournament. In that case, I would've been able to take action earlier in that specific time on
December 18th. Then all that would've needed to be done would be to call everyone out and
travel back to three years ago again,"
Nagato's expression was as cold as ice, there was hardly a smile,
"If I had told you beforehand, my astray self would still have been able to erase all your
memories concerning the incident and change the world. Besides, no one can guarantee that
something that hasn't happened will ever occur. The best I could do was to keep you in your
original state when December 18th arrived."

also that the pSM!Yuki denied the request for syncronise by pD!Yuki most probably due that she already experienced that in her past. in other word,PARADOX

Just like kyon when

Spoiler for idk:

He travel back to complete the timeline. He tried to say to his past self exactly like what he heard when he got stabbed by Ryoko.

maybe because of the denial that pD!Yuki decided that she will put restriction unto herself and consequencely later she didnt want to synchronize when she travel back due to her own will .

[ultimatemegax]

I've been thinking about how similar the Disappearance!Yuki and our normal Mikuru are (especially at the beginning of the series). Yuki does say in Intrigues when Kyon calls her to let her know about Mikuru's absence that she understands how Mikuru could think she wants to be like her, but that she's never thought about it. While it may not be consciously, I do think that the two characters share a lot of characteristics. Both tend to be shy and have one companion they trust. They are portrayed as "weaker" characters in Kyon's narrative especially against someone like Haruhi or Kyon (when he grabs her in the clubroom). I do believe that Yuki is more shy than Mikuru, especially around Kyon, as seen by refusing to look at him when he stares at her compared to Mikuru who's worried about something's wrong with her. I'm still ironing out some details about this, but I thought it would be interesting to hear some other perspectives on it. I may be barking up the wrong tree, but I'd like to read some replies.

[edkedkedk]

Originally Posted by ultimatemegax

I've been thinking about how similar the Disappearance!Yuki and our normal Mikuru are (especially at the beginning of the series). Yuki does say in Intrigues when Kyon calls her to let her know about Mikuru's absence that she understands how Mikuru could think she wants to be like her, but that she's never thought about it. While it may not be consciously, I do think that the two characters share a lot of characteristics. Both tend to be shy and have one companion they trust. They are portrayed as "weaker" characters in Kyon's narrative especially against someone like Haruhi or Kyon (when he grabs her in the clubroom). I do believe that Yuki is more shy than Mikuru, especially around Kyon, as seen by refusing to look at him when he stares at her compared to Mikuru who's worried about something's wrong with her. I'm still ironing out some details about this, but I thought it would be interesting to hear some other perspectives on it. I may be barking up the wrong tree, but I'd like to read some replies.

I never really thought about it until it was mentioned really recently, too. One thing that I can be sure of is that Yuki noticed Kyon's attraction to Mikuru, and in creating alt!Universe she tries to make it as appealing to Kyon as she can. When she created alt!Universe, her data was corrupted as she longed for emotions. Yet part of the reason for the creation was to try and make Kyon happier. Kyon has been complaining a lot about Haruhi even though he doesn't mean it, and I think Yuki mistook it for him being unhappy about Haruhi.

The subconscious part is very important here. In wanting to please Kyon, she also wants to make herself more human too. That is why I believe she resurrected Ryoko, to try and defend her created world as well as making herself seem even more vulnerable, requiring the aid of someone else to survive. So while she said she doesn't want to be like Mikuru, her subconscious mind of wanting to keep Kyon in alt!Universe prompted her to remake herself in alt!Yuki; timid, shy, cute, strong interests in their craft (books for Yuki, tea for Mikuru), and most importantly, weakness so that the man in Kyon will want to protect her.

(Interlude: I do not think Kyon is a man, however )

So yeah, I do think you have a valid point there. Yuki has to make sure the world was appealing enough for Kyon to want to stay, so she accounted for every single detail, except for one. Remember, Kyon hesitated a lot in pressing the 'ENTER' button. But in the end, the one thing that led Kyon to want to return to the 'original' world, which is also the thing Yuki missed out, is that Kyon has grown to care for each and everyone of the SOS Brigade. That love and care cannot be replicated.

Good job, Koizu- I mean, ultimatemegax.

[ultimatemegax]

Originally Posted by edkedkedk

I never really thought about it until it was mentioned really recently, too. One thing that I can be sure of is that Yuki noticed Kyon's attraction to Mikuru, and in creating alt!Universe she tries to make it as appealing to Kyon as she can. When she created alt!Universe, her data was corrupted as she longed for emotions. Yet part of the reason for the creation was to try and make Kyon happier. Kyon has been complaining a lot about Haruhi even though he doesn't mean it, and I think Yuki mistook it for him being unhappy about Haruhi.

The subconscious part is very important here. In wanting to please Kyon, she also wants to make herself more human too. That is why I believe she resurrected Ryoko, to try and defend her created world as well as making herself seem even more vulnerable, requiring the aid of someone else to survive. So while she said she doesn't want to be like Mikuru, her subconscious mind of wanting to keep Kyon in alt!Universe prompted her to remake herself in alt!Yuki; timid, shy, cute, strong interests in their craft (books for Yuki, tea for Mikuru), and most importantly, weakness so that the man in Kyon will want to protect her.

(Interlude: I do not think Kyon is a man, however )

So yeah, I do think you have a valid point there. Yuki has to make sure the world was appealing enough for Kyon to want to stay, so she accounted for every single detail, except for one. Remember, Kyon hesitated a lot in pressing the 'ENTER' button. But in the end, the one thing that led Kyon to want to return to the 'original' world, which is also the thing Yuki missed out, is that Kyon has grown to care for each and everyone of the SOS Brigade. That love and care cannot be replicated.

Good job, Koizu- I mean, ultimatemegax.

I think a lot of the posters here are influencing my opinions on Kyon to the point where I don't like him as much as I used to. I said in my post today that Kyon suffers from "main male character amnesia" where he doesn't realize what his actions do to the females around him. I do think that he went back to the old world in part because he feared the changes and in part because he missed his Haruhi, but that's for another thread.

After it was mentioned in another thread why someone thought Yuki resurrected Ryoko and why she didn't stop Ryoko from attacking. She mentions in the novels (I'll edit in the specific volume and chapter when I have free access to look) that she had to let things happen the way they did otherwise unforeseen effects could have happened. I don't think Yuki revived Ryoko because of some plot to save Kyon from being attacked again. Yuki tapped into Haruhi's new world power and altered the world from 365 days before December 18th. During that time, Ryoko was still alive and could have been in active mode thereby causing problems if she suddenly disappeared during the middle of the month for no apparent reason. In addition, Ryoko was always Yuki's backup, which I believe to be helping her in her goals, no matter what. That would explain the cooking and the protection when Kyon begins to shoot her.

The only plothole that I can find in Disappearance deals with some dialogue. It's mentioned by Kunikida or Taniguchi that Kyounen has always been a co-ed school, but Yuki's power only extended back one year. I think it was just a miswrite or mistranslation, but it's something that's bothered me. In less than 48 hours, I'll have my final post on Yuki up on Cartoon Leap, which has my full thoughts on the Disappearance world since it's made by Yuki. Thank you for your reply, it's helped me clarify a few of my thoughts.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by ultimatemegax

I think a lot of the posters here are influencing my opinions on Kyon to the point where I don't like him as much as I used to.

In my experience, people tend to like Kyon less if they also sympathize with Yuki, and vice versa. He's probably less kind to her than the other brigade members, even after Vol. 4...

Originally Posted by ultimatemegax

The only plothole that I can find in Disappearance deals with some dialogue. It's mentioned by Kunikida or Taniguchi that Kyounen has always been a co-ed school, but Yuki's power only extended back one year.

This isn't a plothole... that's the thing: Haruhi's powers have little no to internal consistency, since they break all laws of physics.

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by edkedkedk

I never really thought about it until it was mentioned really recently, too. One thing that I can be sure of is that Yuki noticed Kyon's attraction to Mikuru, and in creating alt!Universe she tries to make it as appealing to Kyon as she can. When she created alt!Universe, her data was corrupted as she longed for emotions. Yet part of the reason for the creation was to try and make Kyon happier. Kyon has been complaining a lot about Haruhi even though he doesn't mean it, and I think Yuki mistook it for him being unhappy about Haruhi.

Oh, he means it all right. Not as much as he makes it seem (that's one of the points of Disappearance), but he does have problems with Haruhi, almost more in volume than in nature, aside from her odd sociopathic Kick the Dog moments here and there. She's largely rectified the situation herself by dialing it down from 11, but she still has her lapses now and again. I'm willing to bet that's why Tanigawa gradually introduced the Anti-dan to take part of Haruhi's role in the plot, since Haruhi has gradually been moving from antagonist to McGuffin.

Originally Posted by edkedkedk

(Interlude: I do not think Kyon is a man, however )

I beg to differ. As much as Kyon may bitch and moan and try to get out of dealing with things, when it gets down to it, he's usually right there at the end resolving the issue at hand. Whether it's killing Haruhi's latest collateral damage-creating buzz, or figuring out what to get Yuki or Itsuki to do to solve the problem (since they rarely act on their own unless it's to stage a problem), or running out into the street to save a little kid and by extension the existence of Mikuru, or changing/ensuring history, or taking a knife in the gut, he's earned his keep. No doubt. The fact that he has flaws only makes him a more interesting character.

Originally Posted by edkedkedk

So yeah, I do think you have a valid point there. Yuki has to make sure the world was appealing enough for Kyon to want to stay, so she accounted for every single detail, except for one. Remember, Kyon hesitated a lot in pressing the 'ENTER' button. But in the end, the one thing that led Kyon to want to return to the 'original' world, which is also the thing Yuki missed out, is that Kyon has grown to care for each and everyone of the SOS Brigade. That love and care cannot be replicated.

I think if Yuki had changed certain things less, primarily herself, he might have considered staying. It wasn't just the SOS-dan members he missed, because he ended up gathering them all up anyway. what he missed were his SOS-dan members, the moe moe Mikuru, the tacit alien bookworm Yuki, and even the force of nature Haruhi. Itsuki he probably liked better as the Yukiverse version... ^_^

Originally Posted by ultimatemegax

I think a lot of the posters here are influencing my opinions on Kyon to the point where I don't like him as much as I used to. I said in my post today that Kyon suffers from "main male character amnesia" where he doesn't realize what his actions do to the females around him. I do think that he went back to the old world in part because he feared the changes and in part because he missed his Haruhi, but that's for another thread.

Don't let them get you down on the man. He's just a flawed person like the rest of us (his entire point of being). They're just all upset because he's his own primary cause of shipping failure... ^_^

Originally Posted by ultimatemegax

After it was mentioned in another thread why someone thought Yuki resurrected Ryoko and why she didn't stop Ryoko from attacking. She mentions in the novels (I'll edit in the specific volume and chapter when I have free access to look) that she had to let things happen the way they did otherwise unforeseen effects could have happened. I don't think Yuki revived Ryoko because of some plot to save Kyon from being attacked again. Yuki tapped into Haruhi's new world power and altered the world from 365 days before December 18th. During that time, Ryoko was still alive and could have been in active mode thereby causing problems if she suddenly disappeared during the middle of the month for no apparent reason. In addition, Ryoko was always Yuki's backup, which I believe to be helping her in her goals, no matter what. That would explain the cooking and the protection when Kyon begins to shoot her.

The only plothole that I can find in Disappearance deals with some dialogue. It's mentioned by Kunikida or Taniguchi that Kyounen has always been a co-ed school, but Yuki's power only extended back one year. I think it was just a miswrite or mistranslation, but it's something that's bothered me. In less than 48 hours, I'll have my final post on Yuki up on Cartoon Leap, which has my full thoughts on the Disappearance world since it's made by Yuki. Thank you for your reply, it's helped me clarify a few of my thoughts.

Think about the way existence must seem for Yuki. You are aware of things on a level that is not even conceivable to the human mind. You are constantly in contact with a mind-bogglingly LARGE existence, only it's not so much "in contact with" as on several levels you are it. Now you're about to drop your own considerable existence into the mind of a real human. I'd say it's the equivalent of cutting away your cerebrum, crawling into a thimble, and welding it shut behind you, but that doesn't begin to describe it. The idea of that has to absolutely terrify her, only to be topped by the realization that she can't stop herself from doing it. Wouldn't you want a familiar face around, one who at least on some level can relate to what you're going through?

And she couldn't stop Ryoko any more than Mikuru(small) would have been able to. Tell me that watching that wasn't the icing on her horror cake...

I don't remember that line about Koyouen. I remember a line about the school, but can't remember if they were saying it became co-ed recently or had always been, but there's no reason that memory changes couldn't be part of the Yukification of the world. May not be able to change the fact that 366 days ago it was an all-girls school, but you can certainly change everyone's memories from 365 days ago of it ever having been an all-girls school.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

In my experience, people tend to like Kyon less if they also sympathize with Yuki, and vice versa. He's probably less kind to her than the other brigade members, even after Vol. 4...

Wow. What is with all the Kyon hate? That's a massive Flanderization based on one incident in Volume 7 where he was a little too busy saving the world (as usual) to realize that Yuki might have taken an invitation to the library a little more seriously than he did. Granted, it took Mikuru(small) to point it out (obvious much?), but it's quite an exception.