Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans - Mecha, Weapons, and Technology

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by SonicSP

At this point, it's hard to tell even whether they even have the specific technology needed. The Gundams in IBO may very well use something something similar to the Twin Drive System from 00, which is a special system designed to link and get a higher output from the reactors (more than just putting two reactors together). One would need the engineering specifications of that as well.

We're still not entirely sure which factions have or had a possession of Gundams at the moment as Kimaris and Gusion are both listed as "Unknown". Since the Gundams are quite rare it's possible that the special reactor link technology was also lost.

From a technology development point of view I don't think we should compare it to 00's Twin Drive since Ahab reactors have been around for a long time within IBO universe and I don't think humanity has suffered a big technology "reset" and forgotten how to do it. On a pure technical level I think the comparison is fine for now.

Here's some more thoughts: I think only Mars developed Gundams and I suspect the "Whiskers" are needed to make use of them. It looks like "Whiskers" are not in common use even in Mars. So here's an idea - the twin Ahab reactor technology and the Whiskers technology are officially forbidden and are considered taboo technology. I doubt any of the other MS pilots have "Whiskers". I suspect people on Earth demonise the technology and seeing it being resurrected would probably make people on Earth very nervous.

[bigdeath]

Why you suck so much, SonicSP? lol Just joking, thank you so much for the translations.

[SonicSP]

It depends on the relative power when it comes to development I think. A Twin Drive MS in 00 is far far more powerful than a single or even double Drive setup in 00, so in a sense it is like the next overpowered engine step to normal GN Drives. During the time of its introduction, normal GN Drive suits have become quite widespread and normal with at least 1000 GN-XIII units and 100 Ahead units confirmed in 00's universe in Season 2. It's extremely hard for normal GN engineers to figure out even if they have the "components" (IE GN Drives) needed despite the fact that they have a good grasp on GN technology by then. Even Ribbons was only able to achieve it only because he had Anew literally steal the data from Celestial Being and they got it only because of super genius Aeolia's theory.

I think the question on the IBO Gundams's parallel system would be how exclusive the technology is. If it's an advanced system that the other factions have never found than it would make sense if it's because the parallel system is some sort of special technology that they have no data or knowledge off. If they have found some before, then it's likely they never implemented it because it's just not practical much like the same reasons not many Gundams are made. The modern MPs do however use the same frames so that may be a big clue.

Essentially what I mean here is that we need to separate "Ahab Reactor" technology from "Parallel Ahab Reactor" technology as the latter appears to be some sort of advanced stepping stone. Since it's totally possible for the current factions to have kept and inherited one but not the other, given the way the Gundam Frame profile makes it sound like the technology was exclusive to them. We don't know who made the Gundams during the war but we knew they appeared late on. If the Parallel Ahab system was a new development during that late war period, there still a good chance for the technology to be lost especially since they may not time for the technology to be captured and reversed engineered.

Now I'm kinda curious about the power of the IBO Gundams actually. I never got the impression that any of the three I've seen feel powerful especially given their list arms. It actually makes me want to see them become some sort of powerful demon monsters. I remember this feeling to be very similar to when I watched 00 Season 2 where 00 Gundam pretty much underperformed in relation to its potential so when it went full potential in Episode 11 I was pretty damn excited.

=======

On the matter of Whiskers, I believe the HG Barbatos manual directly mentions that you need an Organic Device System to run ancient mobile suits, which I assume the Whiskers are a part of. So I believe your guess is right.

Originally Posted by bigdeath

Why you suck so much, SonicSP? lol Just joking, thank you so much for the translations.

I didn't translate anything. I'm just trying to read something that someone else have mentioned since they actually read it.

[bigdeath]

Originally Posted by SonicSP

I didn't translate anything. I'm just trying to read something that someone else have mentioned since they actually read it.

I don't know what thats suppose to mean........

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by SonicSP

I think the question on the IBO Gundams's parallel system would be how exclusive the technology is. If it's an advanced system that the other factions have never found than it would make sense if it's because the parallel system is some sort of special technology that they have no data or knowledge off. If they have found some before, then it's likely they enter implemented it because it's just not practical much like the same reasons not many Gundams are made. The modern MPs do however use the same frames so that may be a big clue.

Normally it's much easier to replicate or re-invent something if you know it is possible, though it might take some time. The technology behind the Gundams would have been investigated and analysed during the war. There's also clearly old Gundams just lying around on Mars, though they'd obviously be extremely rare these days. So from that point of view it does seem more believable that the reason why there's no modern Gundams is because the technology is taboo (or uneconomical) rather than nobody managed to figure it out after 300 years. That might be why the GCS owner didn't sell it either - it couldn't be done legally and doing it privately would have been risky. There's also a hint dropped in ep1 that the Ahab technology "is a power that could destroy humanity".

There is another possibility though: that there's something special on Mars. It is curious that Mars seems to be important to Earth economically. Transporting stuff between the planets is extremely expensive so if Mars really is important then there must be something extremely rare or unique about Mars. Which could be related to the Ahab reactor technology too - for all we know it might not be possible to make them on Earth. Of course that doesn't necessarily explain why there's no new Gundams on Mars either unless we assume that nobody came from elsewhere to try and Mars is so poor these days that there's little high-tech R&D going on there.

Essentially what I mean here is that we need to separate "Ahab Reactor" technology from "Parallel Ahab Reactor" technology as the latter appears to be some sort of advanced stepping stone. Since it's totally possible for the current factions to have kept and inherited one but not the other, given the way the Gundam Frame profile makes it sound like the technology was exclusive to them. We don't know who made the Gundams during the war but we knew they appeared late on. If the Parallel Ahab system was a new development during that late war period, there still a good chance for the technology to be lost especially since they may not time for the technology to be captured and reversed engineered.

It didn't take that long for multiple countries to invent nuclear weapons in our world. If it was 10 years I could believe that nobody else figured out how to make a Parallel Ahab Reactor practical but not 300. I also think it would also be more interesting from a story perspective if it's taboo technology.

Now I'm kinda curious about the power of the IBO Gundams actually. I never got the impression that any of the three I've seen feel powerful especially given their list arms. It actually makes me want to see them become some sort of powerful demon monsters. I remember this feeling to be very similar to when I watched 00 Season 2 where 00 Gundam pretty much underperformed in relation to its potential so when it went full potential in Episode 11 I was pretty damn excited.

It's looking like the IBO Gundams will be gradually restored and refined over time. Who knows what is lurking within

It'll be interesting to know how/why the Martians lost too.

On the matter of Whiskers, I believe the HG Barbatos manual directly mentions that you need an Organic Device System to run ancient mobile suits, which I assume the Whiskers are a part of. So I believe your guess is right.

Mika was very effective with equal machinery so with a Gundam he should have lots of fun. I wonder how many MS there are on Mars...

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

I wonder how many MS there are on Mars...

One less now. :k

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

One less now. :k

Bwahahaha good one

Soon to be 2 less

(Assuming they throw in a MSG nod with a third unit getting away to report to the superiors)

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by Skye629

Bwahahaha good one

Soon to be 2 less

(Assuming they throw in a MSG nod with a third unit getting away to report to the superiors)

I suspect the old guy is going to survive at least.

But still... I wonder how many MS there are on Mars. My feeling is not too many and all owned or almost all owned by Earth forces.

[Fireminer]

Hmm... From this episode, there would be a lot of chance that the upgraded Barbatos will receive a proper cockpit, one that they disconnect the pilot in case of unconsciousness.

Also, if the Ahab particles work as gyroscopes, and the cockpit in front of the reactors, wouldn't this make the center of gravity of Bartbatos is its upper half? How would this help with stability in a melee unit?

[The 48th Ronin]

So Alaya-Vijnana is like ZERO system, but with a more direct connection.

[bigdeath]

Originally Posted by Fireminer

Hmm... From this episode, there would be a lot of chance that the upgraded Barbatos will receive a proper cockpit, one that they disconnect the pilot in case of unconsciousness.

Also, if the Ahab particles work as gyroscopes, and the cockpit in front of the reactors, wouldn't this make the center of gravity of Bartbatos is its upper half? How would this help with stability in a melee unit?

Much like how non-aerodynamic airplanes (like stealth bombers) are made to fly, its mostly computer controlled. The direct connection meant to allow a pilot with no training, like Mika, to be able to control the gundam as naturally as controlling his own limbs. (No, this isn't exactly realistic)

[SonicSP]

Originally Posted by Fireminer

Hmm... From this episode, there would be a lot of chance that the upgraded Barbatos will receive a proper cockpit, one that they disconnect the pilot in case of unconsciousness.

Also, if the Ahab particles work as gyroscopes, and the cockpit in front of the reactors, wouldn't this make the center of gravity of Bartbatos is its upper half? How would this help with stability in a melee unit?

If and I emphasize "if" the particles have the power to affect the change the mass concentrations of the suit, it should be able to solve this issue by balancing something from another section somewhere else.

The GN Particles from 00 for example have the ability to generate a negative mass effect and use this to manipulate the mass concentrations to change the center of gravity. The Ahab Particles are inspired by some of the effects of the previous particles so it's possible that it may adapt a similar approach to mass effect of 00. Suits like Avalanche Exia use this effect to help their AMBACs all the time according to its HG manual.

While I'm not means an expert on the theory, it should be possible if you can weaken the Higgs Field to reduce the relative mass of an object. Without the Higgs Field existing in our world, everything will be massless and will
move at the speed of light but just weakening it should decrease the mass of an object by reducing the mass of its elementary particles that make up matter.

And since the Higgs Particle was recently proven in real life in the last few years it does make it fall under harder science fiction than it did before a few years ago. Even in 00 I don't think the mass reduction thing went overboard since its effects isn't even obvious in the anime.

It may even explain why the weight stats of the suits are pretty low aside from great light and strong composite materials. 00's GN suits have some weight reduction mechanism integrated into their official weight stats as well so we have precedent.

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

It didn't take that long for multiple countries to invent nuclear weapons in our world. If it was 10 years I could believe that nobody else figured out how to make a Parallel Ahab Reactor practical but not 300. I also think it would also be more interesting from a story perspective if it's taboo technology.

I suspect that there's some level of regression in technology even if it didn't seem too bad. Personally I don't feel as if the current civilization is advanced enough to terraform Mars especially the aspect of creating a permanent magnetic field. A possible economic depression after the war may have slowed things down considerably. It is interesting to speculate though and hopefully they'll give us more answers in this aspect.

The taboo thing is interesting as well as its possible that there was a huge blowback to Ahab Reactors after the war because of them causing the incident before them slowly and gradually using it again due to them being too useful as well as political and short memories chance over the centuries.

[Patriot's Blade]

i hope they will give the Barbatos some guns as soon as possible because of it bringing a sword fight to a gun fight just looks plain silly considering space age combat standards, even if you are a Jedi, also the fact a Mobile Worker's guns can't even penetrate against MS armor alone,
well the rifle from Orlis's Graze is still intact right? they should have salvage that just in case if it still works considering we can see the Barbatos using the Graze's shoulder armor they should have used it too, as well along with whatever is left on his Graze that is a projectile weapon.

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by Patriot's Blade

i hope they will give the Barbatos some guns as soon as possible because of it bringing a sword fight to a gun fight just looks plain silly considering space age combat standards, even if you are a Jedi, also the fact a Mobile Worker's guns can't even penetrate against MS armor alone,
well the rifle from Orlis's Graze is still intact right? they should have salvage that just in case if it still works considering we can see the Barbatos using the Graze's shoulder armor they should have used it too, as well along with whatever is left on his Graze that is a projectile weapon.

Assuming the Graze rifle uses ammunition, then they're not gonna have much to go on unfortunately (unless it uses some sort of universal round type)

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by Skye629

Assuming the Graze rifle uses ammunition, then they're not gonna have much to go on unfortunately (unless it uses some sort of universal round type)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile...looded_Orphans

"Graze Custom (グレイズ改 Gureizu Kai) A Graze that is captured by the CGS and heavily customized for Akihiro's use."

If that's correct then Akihiro's going to get a "second hand" (war spoils) Graze, so we'll might well see rifle usage before then.

Originally Posted by SonicSP

And since the Higgs Particle was recently proven in real life in the last few years it does make it fall under harder science fiction than it did before a few years ago. Even in 00 I don't think the mass reduction thing went overboard since its effects isn't even obvious in the anime.

It would be interesting if they used something so contemporary though I also fear that it'll just become magic pixie dust in how it's explained

I suspect that there's some level of regression in technology even if it didn't seem too bad. Personally I don't feel as if the current civilization is advanced enough to terraform Mars especially the aspect of creating a permanent magnetic field. A possible economic depression after the war may have slowed things down considerably. It is interesting to speculate though and hopefully they'll give us more answers in this aspect.

Definitely the current people of Mars don't look capable of terraforming it. Not even close. But since there was a major war there 300 years ago, maybe it was terraformed a long long time ago. Definitely after Mars lost the war their economy has gone bad and never recovered and it would be interesting to know what conditions are like on Earth in comparison.

The taboo thing is interesting as well as its possible that there was a huge blowback to Ahab Reactors after the war because of them causing the incident before them slowly and gradually using it again due to them being too useful as well as political and short memories chance over the centuries.

Hmm, hmm. Since the age is called "post disaster" and it times with the "Calamity War" I'm going to guess that this timeframe is not restricted to Mars but the Earth too. Apparently the old power structures on Earth collapsed. All of which implies something very very bad and world changing occurred.

Maybe I'd underestimated how much Earth had been affected. Looks like something worse than the world wars of the 20th century occurred.

[SonicSP]

Originally Posted by Patriot's Blade

i hope they will give the Barbatos some guns as soon as possible because of it bringing a sword fight to a gun fight just looks plain silly considering space age combat standards, even if you are a Jedi, also the fact a Mobile Worker's guns can't even penetrate against MS armor alone,
well the rifle from Orlis's Graze is still intact right? they should have salvage that just in case if it still works considering we can see the Barbatos using the Graze's shoulder armor they should have used it too, as well along with whatever is left on his Graze that is a projectile weapon.

I used to be bothered by this too but after reading the mecha profiles to come out recently, I've changed my mind.

While it's definitely better to complement them with range weapons, I would disagree that it's silly. Melee weapons in IBO play a very important role because they're very effective against Nano Laminated Armor. The melee weapons' main purpose is anti-mobile suit combat as mentioned in the HG Barbatos and HG Graze manuals in regards to the Mace and the Battle Axe because guns are not as effective. Barbatos' Mace is made from a rare alloy usually used for mobile suit frames so it's even better than the normal melee weapons. What this means is a "melee first" strategy has its merits in some situations, even if having a ranged weapon is also important.

The elements mentioned above can be shown in the Grazes strategy, they opted to also go melee at certain times because that's the best way to deal damage to another mobile suit, otherwise it would have better for both of them to just use rifles all the time, switching to melee only when Barbatos comes close to attack them. But because of the armor, melee weapon are able to play a vital role in tactics.

In the previous battle, if we had to choose either a melee weapon or a ranged weapon, Barbatos is probabaly much better off with a melee weapon. This is because it's Nano Laminated Armor provides good protection against ranged for the "most" part (most being some parts are uncovered). The other two Grazes have melee weapons so it would be harder to fight them off with a ranged because their Nano Laminated Armor and it would be harder to defend againts their melee attacks. The Grazes always had the option to go melee/range hybrid since there are two of them which is probably a good balanced strategy.

This is not to say that ranged weapon don't do anything against Nano Laminated Armor because they do, otherwise the Graze wouldn't have bothered to shoot at all but melee weapons are the best damage dealer to mobile suits so they have their place in strategy.

I do agree however that it's good for Barbatos to have a ranged weapon soon because there's going to be tougher enemies and situations ahead. I don't think it would use the Graze' rifles however for some reason, Barbatos' first ranged weapons we know off would be the "Smoothbore Cannon" from HG Option Set 1. Would be interesting if they mention why they won't be using the Graze' rifle though or they'll just be ignoring it.

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

Hmm, hmm. Since the age is called "post disaster" and it times with the "Calamity War" I'm going to guess that this timeframe is not restricted to Mars but the Earth too. Apparently the old power structures on Earth collapsed. All of which implies something very very bad and world changing occurred.

Maybe I'd underestimated how much Earth had been affected. Looks like something worse than the world wars of the 20th century occurred.

If they even named a new calendar out of it, it's definitely worse than the two World Wars. Usually calenders in Gundam apply to the entire civilization so I'd always assumed that was the case.

I'm interested in why you think the old power structured collapse though. I heard Kudelia mentioned in the Episode two that the four economic powers took over and divided Mars, I'd always interpreted it as them being the old powers or something but if there can be another interpretation I would be interested because I think it would be more fun for the story if the old structures collapsed. That's usually more "Post-Disaster"-ish.

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by SonicSP

I'm interested in why you think the old power structured collapse though. I heard Kudelia mentioned in the Episode two that the four economic powers took over and divided Mars, I'd always interpreted it as them being the old powers or something but if there can be another interpretation I would be interested because I think it would be more fun for the story if the old structures collapsed. That's usually more "Post-Disaster"-ish.

http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Mobile_...LOODED_ORPHANS

"There was once a great conflict known as the "Calamity War." Roughly 300 years have passed since the end of this war. The Earth Sphere had lost its previous governing structure, and a new world was created under new systems of government."

Mars was divided into four. Are you suggesting that each of those four is tied to a different group on Earth? I'd assumed that it was unrelated but hmm... I re-checked some background data and saw this:

https://youtu.be/mSygLg2_aqs?t=117

Which says that Chryse is a Martian city governed by one of the Earth's major powers. So yeah, it could be that each part of Mars is tied to a different power block on Earth.

In Ep 1 that Gjallarhorn guy refers to "Nobliss". I wonder who/what that is. A particular power block on Earth?

[SonicSP]

http://mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?p=378290#p378290

Balofo from Mechatalk did a translation of the HG Schwalbe Graze manual:

Originally Posted by balofo

Schwalbe Graze manual:
-Overall height: 18.1m, dry weight:32.5t

-McGillis Schwalbe Graze: The Schwalbe Graze is a sister machine that used the same type frame of the Graze which is currently being deployed in the Earth Sphere and outer space as Gjallarhorn's mainline mass produced MS. The Schwalbe Graze is a trial machine that was born in the Graze's development process aiming at higher output and mobility, so inside Gjallarhorn, as a matter of fact, same type machines called Graze have been operating. Compared with the Graze which aimed for a further general purpose nature, the machine's stability during lower output is inferior so the pilot's talent is demanded for steering. On the other hand, it's superior in the highest output, the more the battle's severity increases the more it displays the performance. Also, commander specification Schwalbe Grazes are being operated, in many cases the passenger is fixed so customization is done to suit the pilot so there is a tendency for each machine's personality to stand out. Standard Graze use equipment retrofit is possible.

-McGillis Fareed: adopted by the current head of the Fareed clan, Izunario Fareed(guy reflected on his sword in the OP?). Friend of Gaelio, Bauduin family is also part of the Seven Stars, and said to be engaged to his sister Arumiria which they haven't seen in a while. When he arrived to inspect the Mars branch it has been decided for him have a deep connection(fate) with Mikazuki and Tekkadan.

-Battle Axe and Rifle have the same text from the vanilla Graze

-Wire Claw: shooting type claw for enemy MS restraint, used for clinging to enemy vessels. Captured item for Barbatos' equipping too.

-McGillis Unit: It places emphasis on high output operation, adoption of Flight Unit equipment makes it possible to combat even within the atmosphere under the great influence of the planet's gravity. As a matter of course, the extra burden affects the pilot too and the machine's control becomes difficult, however, McGillis masters the technique.

-Flight Unit: additional high output propulsion unit that used the same technology of interplanetary cruiser battleship's main thrusters. It becomes possible to fly above ground too.

-Environmental activity: Similarly to the Graze which pursued versatility, the Schwalbe Graze's forte is to not select the environment to operate. In addition to making the equipment lighter, by means of the Flight Unit further high mobility is achieved; it's possible to cope with command, support and melee combat too since it's endowed with abundant armament variation.

So there must be a vanilla Schwalbe without the commander antenna, nice

Next manuals are Graze Kai/Option Set 2 in 3 weeks, the week after are Hyakuri/Hyakuren and finally the 1/100 Barbatos in 10/29.

Hopefully the 1/100 Barbatos will have more in-depth info on Nano Laminated Armor, Ahab Reactor and Gundam Frame

Looks like there are other Schwalbe Grazes aside from the two we know off.

[Patriot's Blade]

ever wondered about the origins of Akahiro's custom Graze?, is it made out of by Frankenstein both Orlis's & Crank's Graze? possibly Ein's too since in ep.1 Mika also successfully hacked off some of its parts including a portion of its head, then how they modify the cockpit controls to implement the Alaya-Vijnana sysytem, unless its like a foreshadowing that the Graze is somehow related to any of the 72 Gundams' designs hence allowing the reverse compatibility of the ancient Gundam with the present day Graze & the modification is equivalent of resurrecting 'lost art'.

[SonicSP]

Originally Posted by Patriot's Blade

ever wondered about the origins of Akahiro's custom Graze?, is it made out of by Frankenstein both Orlis's & Crank's Graze? possibly Ein's too since in ep.1 Mika also successfully hacked off some of its parts including a portion of its head, then how they modify the cockpit controls to implement the Alaya-Vijnana sysytem, unless its like a foreshadowing that the Graze is somehow related to any of the 72 Gundams' designs hence allowing the reverse compatibility of the ancient Gundam with the present day Graze & the modification is equivalent of resurrecting 'lost art'.

The official site profile just mentions that it's a Graze with the head and torso repaired. Also has some extra boosters at the back that give it better thrust. I'm guessing the Graze's rifle will go to it as well.

So my guess is that they took whatever parts they have from the two Grazes to make at least one Graze with any extras being used on Barbatos or spare parts.

Happens all the time to me in gunpla. I screw up some parts on one kit, have to buy another kit just to complete that first kit and end up with a lot of spare parts.