Heavy Object - Old Anime Discussion Thread

[Dengar]

So am I the only one who was more focused on the fact that these foreign soldiers were speaking Japanese?

[Marcus H.]

Then somebody need to teach these people that anything can happen in actual war. Isn't the idea of being militarymen is to always prepare for every possible dangerous situation? Or is the majority of the military bodies in this world setting also believe in this "wave the white flag, you'll be okay"-tradition? If so, then....oh brother they reminds me of the reconditioned sheeple in Psycho-Pass.

Real-life logic in wars don't apply in the world of Heavy Object. You have to wonder why a pair of high-school-age boys can simply talk about wars and fighting like they are complaining about their homework. To me, it's a sign that the world, especially the ones in the military, has a different point of view regarding war.

Basically, war has changed, and that doesn't only apply to the big balls of screw you in the field.

So am I the only one who was more focused on the fact that these foreign soldiers were speaking Japanese?

You've been in the forums for three years and you've only begun to wonder that?

[Botan_TM]

Originally Posted by Dengar

So am I the only one who was more focused on the fact that these foreign soldiers were speaking Japanese?

Maybe future rifle also have a universal translator?

[Julio C]

What was up with the random pervert stuff? Why didn't girl reacted to it? Is she too emo or something?

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Then somebody need to teach these people that anything can happen in actual war. Isn't the idea of being militarymen is to always prepare for every possible dangerous situation? Or is the majority of the military bodies in this world setting also believe in this "wave the white flag, you'll be okay"-tradition? If so, then....oh brother they reminds me of the reconditioned sheeple in Psycho-Pass.

One of them is a lowly private while the other isn't even an official soldier.

Truth be told, not everyone in the military is a "hooray this is what I've signed up for!" guy. Like any organization, you get all kinds of folks.

Originally Posted by Dengar

So am I the only one who was more focused on the fact that these foreign soldiers were speaking Japanese?

Would you rather they toss in a butchered attempt at a foreign language? For that matter, none of the main characters are Japanese either.

[Dengar]

Well yeah but that can be handwaved by saying they're actually just speaking their own language which is translated for the viewer's convenience.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Well yeah but that can be handwaved by saying they're actually just speaking their own language which is translated for the viewer's convenience.

Well they're in Alaska, so it's not inconceivable that one side might be Canadian while the other is American.

Common language for everyone!

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

One of them is a lowly private while the other isn't even an official soldier.

Truth be told, not everyone in the military is a "hooray this is what I've signed up for!" guy. Like any organization, you get all kinds of folks.

I think you'd especially find more of those people in the setting we are seeing here. On the average it seems like Objects are taking up almost all of the combat in this current setting and on the whole people are sticking with the white flag belief. Or at the very least that is the perception the public has of war right now. So in that situation you'd probably find more people willing to join. There are probably a good amount like Qwenthur and Havia who are joining for reasons that have nothing to do with wanting to fight or protect their country or any other more common reasons we have now. Those people exist now so one could be sure a lot would probably be around in this setting.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Well they're in Alaska, so it's not inconceivable that one side might be Canadian while the other is American.

Common language for everyone!

Yep certainly not that far fetched . With the changing of borders with the fall of the UN maybe a lot of these groups made particular efforts to focus on everyone learning a common language. Entirely possible that the two groups at conflict here would have a common language.

[Requiem-x]

Originally Posted by Julio C

What was up with the random pervert stuff? Why didn't girl reacted to it? Is she too emo or something?

To the second question: they were running from a floating mountain of death at that moment, so priorities had to be established.

To the first question: Welcome to Kamachi writing. It does seem to be a more frequent occurance than it is in Index, though.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Yep certainly not that far fetched . With the changing of borders with the fall of the UN maybe a lot of these groups made particular efforts to focus on everyone learning a common language. Entirely possible that the two groups at conflict here would have a common language.

If you think about it, there's a Monarchy of Canada (Legitimacy Kingdom) and we all know America is ruled by Religion (Faith Organization)....

[Patriot's Blade]

still not sure if the cast of Metal Gear were also capable of destroying an Object with only their bare butt naked body errrr..... hands.......

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Well yeah but that can be handwaved by saying they're actually just speaking their own language which is translated for the viewer's convenience.

They already explained that the nations fractured "like stained glass", and reassembled into the World Powers. So there's really no telling what language anybody from any World Power speaks. Hell, maybe all World Powers use English as a lingua franca.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Going into this second episode, I found myself facepalming to characters who believe (rather ignorantly) that waving white flag will suddenly stop the violence from happening and suddenly makes everything okay even though they’re on the losing side in an actual battle/war. I mean, even that young-stacked female commander already said that there’s no fix rule about the whole white flag thingy. That’s more reason not to depend on the white flag. I’d say these guys watched too much Girls und Panzer

There may be no formal treaty, but the practice is still widely followed. Froleytia lost twice, probably has won sometimes, and must have heard of countless other battles from her colleagues - and in all cases, the White Flag was obeyed, or she'd have said something. There's a reason they're surprised the enemy decided against it this time.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Then somebody need to teach these people that anything can happen in actual war. Isn't the idea of being militarymen is to always prepare for every possible dangerous situation? Or is the majority of the military bodies in this world setting also believe in this "wave the white flag, you'll be okay"-tradition? If so, then....oh brother they reminds me of the reconditioned sheeple in Psycho-Pass.

Why, because they have different rules of engagement? A few centuries ago, razing a town and putting everyone in it to the sword was a thing. Even a few decades ago, we were bombing urban areas wholesale. And of course, the view on torturing prisoners has evolved.

So why wouldn't they have a White Flag practice? To them, the Object is everything. The guys who lost theirs might as well be civilians. And they all have an interest in not going overboard, because the next Object that gets destroyed might be theirs.

[askara]

I still find the idea of Object being able to accurately shot down few dozens missile at once but unable to hit the huge Object in close proximate stupid.

i wonder if they going to get a new Oject or miraculously fixes it and keep using that crappy baby magnum

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

There may be no formal treaty, but the practice is still widely followed. Froleytia lost twice, probably has won sometimes, and must have heard of countless other battles from her colleagues - and in all cases, the White Flag was obeyed, or she'd have said something. There's a reason they're surprised the enemy decided against it this time.


Why, because they have different rules of engagement? A few centuries ago, razing a town and putting everyone in it to the sword was a thing. Even a few decades ago, we were bombing urban areas wholesale. And of course, the view on torturing prisoners has evolved.

So why wouldn't they have a White Flag practice? To them, the Object is everything. The guys who lost theirs might as well be civilians. And they all have an interest in not going overboard, because the next Object that gets destroyed might be theirs.

But today’s countries don’t duel each other using Objects . Looks like this HO is more war-oriented compared to ours. You’d think at least a number of their militarymen would think outside the box and realized that the winner can do anything to the losers including breaking the “white flag tradition” and keep on firing and pillaging. If some of today's countries at war IRL are willing to break the Geneva Convention, a mere tradition like the white flag here is more prone to be violated and every military personnel should've been prepared for that imo. Tbh, Chaos2Frozen’s argument makes more sense that we have all kinds of folks under Frolaytia's command. To me, it’s more believable than the entire militraymen just trust that the white flag will always work.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

But today’s countries don’t duel each other using Objects . Looks like this HO is more war-oriented compared to ours. You’d think at least a number of their militarymen would think outside the box and realized that the winner can do anything to the losers including breaking the “white flag tradition” and keep on firing and pillaging. If some of today's countries at war IRL are willing to break the Geneva Convention, a mere tradition like the white flag here is more prone to be violated and every military personnel should've been prepared for that imo. Tbh, Chaos2Frozen’s argument makes more sense that we have all kinds of folks under Frolaytia's command. To me, it’s more believable than the entire militraymen just trust that the white flag will always work.

Who knows. If another world was looking at us they might argue that more countries would use nukes. That'd be thinking outside the box since no one actually uses them in combat.

A lot of the reasons you don't see them in use could be applied here. You destroy an Object, great. But it's very unlikely a large faction controlling a massive amount of territory only has a single Object. You cross the line and that country has plenty of motivation to pay you back 10 times over. Unofficial understandings can keep these conflicts limited.

If it constantly works then why wouldn't the majority in the military presume it will continue to work? They can feel it's entirely rational to believe that if past encounters have worked out like that and they look at the risk/benefit side of it. Killing a few support members and blowing up some facilities is a minimal gain to pissing off a faction so much that they send all their Objects at you. If you lose that battle then they massacre your entire nation. In general I wouldn't consider that worth it.

There are plenty of cases throughout history anyways of people having agreed methods of engaging in war. Technology can change tactics and how battles are fought. When people didn't follow those agreed ways of engaging war things went poorly for the side surprised. But those surprised weren't students or engineers, but militarymen. It seems a bit silly to presume that just because these are military forces that people within them couldn't believe in this white flag understanding. It's entirely possible that as a whole that the factions had been engaging in conflicts like that and that those involved would have been surprised to see the other side completely shatter those expectations.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Who knows. If another world was looking at us they might argue that more countries would use nukes. That'd be thinking outside the box since no one actually uses them in combat.

A lot of the reasons you don't see them in use could be applied here. You destroy an Object, great. But it's very unlikely a large faction controlling a massive amount of territory only has a single Object. You cross the line and that country has plenty of motivation to pay you back 10 times over. Unofficial understandings can keep these conflicts limited.

If it constantly works then why wouldn't the majority in the military presume it will continue to work? They can feel it's entirely rational to believe that if past encounters have worked out like that and they look at the risk/benefit side of it. Killing a few support members and blowing up some facilities is a minimal gain to pissing off a faction so much that they send all their Objects at you. If you lose that battle then they massacre your entire nation. In general I wouldn't consider that worth it.

There are plenty of cases throughout history anyways of people having agreed methods of engaging in war. Technology can change tactics and how battles are fought. When people didn't follow those agreed ways of engaging war things went poorly for the side surprised. But those surprised weren't students or engineers, but militarymen. It seems a bit silly to presume that just because these are military forces that people within them couldn't believe in this white flag understanding. It's entirely possible that as a whole that the factions had been engaging in conflicts like that and that those involved would have been surprised to see the other side completely shatter those expectations.

Constantly works doesn’t mean it will work forever. For example, driving my car to my office safely is one thing that “constantly works” for me. But doesn’t mean I’m not preparing myself for traffic accident (seatbelt, replacement tires, speed dial, and all other extra precausions) coz even if you drive safely, sometimes, someone else can lose control of his/her car and hit you on the road. Sometimes, you’ll meet a loon or a drunk driver that will do the unthinkable (to a certain degree). That’s my analogy for factions that don’t obey the white flag rules (sorry if I can’t find a better one).

[chaos_animagic]

The fighting is still weird to me, no idea or info on the 2 sides of the battle, all I know is crappy Object got obliterated and the newer stronger Object massacred the entire "colony"?.

And the "white flag", "treaty"? was there such a thing when you're blowning up the enemies in a war? (treaty to say I give up so leave us along? who gives a shit about that, lets just destroy all military constructs and we'll win guaranteed)

The OP showcases the old crappy Object, so they "might" be fixing that and continue using it or something... Tho how they even "fix" will be a whole another question, assuming it got turn to tiny pieces from that giant laser thing hitting almost dead center of it.
Plus their entire compound got wiped, all engineers dead. (and most materials turn to sand)



BTW, I never got why they call her "elite princess".

[jpwong]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Constantly works doesn’t mean it will work forever.

Yeah, but it seems like it's more of a deterrence thing. If your nation basically breaks the unwritten rules of combat, it's almost certain that everyone is going to find out about it. And if everyone knows your country isn't going to follow the rules, none of the other countries are going to have any incentive to do so either when they engage you. Basically unless your nation has sufficient staying power that you won't get crushed if everyone else starts fighting your country that way, it's not in their best interest to go around violating the unwritten combat agreement.

[Julio C]

Originally Posted by Requiem-x

To the second question: they were running from a floating mountain of death at that moment, so priorities had to be established.

To the first question: Welcome to Kamachi writing. It does seem to be a more frequent occurance than it is in Index, though.

Well in Index the guys get punished, but here the guys get away with it.

[Five_Overs]

Originally Posted by Julio C

Well in Index the guys get punished, but here the guys get away with it.

Well, she fell on top of him. Blaming him for it is kind of unfair. I don't think she even have time to worry about it.

Originally Posted by askara

I still find the idea of Object being able to accurately shot down few dozens missile at once but unable to hit the huge Object in close proximate stupid.

They do hit, the smaller ones that is.