2013-10-19, 11:55 | Link #1 |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Can I get into legal trouble for an ''To Love Ru'' artbook ?
I imported with AMI AMI toward Canada an ''To Love Ru'' official artbook.
The parcel was opened (apparently for a random control) and hold at customs for 10 days before I received it without any further mention. Let's be honest here, ''To Love Ru'' is not the most, uh.....glorious...anime, so I'm sick worried about getting into trouble about this. What do you think ? (NB: what worries me is the Canadian laws against obscenity...) |
2013-10-19, 12:03 | Link #2 | |
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It's problematic because Canada does consider anime/manga stuff to be potentially "child porn", if they are of characters of less than legal age engaged in explicit sexual depictions, so if it's Darkness which can be very explicit that'a a big problem. It's terrible, but it's best to be careful to not go through customs with anything that could get you in trouble. And it'd be hard to argue something like "well, she's an alien so..." And anything involving Mikan is just not gonna fly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_re...ography#Canada Quote:
*Written? Oh dear. "And then Saki and Nodoka started making out".... Oh crap, don't arrest me.
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2013-10-19 at 12:28. |
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2013-10-19, 12:13 | Link #3 |
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It was not ''Darkness'', at the very least.
On the other hand, I did receive the parcel at the end without any mention, so I guess my situation is not THAT bad. (The whole thing panicked me to the point that the artbook and the couple of mangas I have of ''Love Ru'' ended up in the trashbag) |
2013-10-19, 12:22 | Link #4 |
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You dont have to toss it away; I don't think they'd raid your house.
But in all honesty, just be very careful on these matters, because while sane people aren't going to enforce this against you, there's always some overzealous power hungry freak that might. Just don't go through customs with any of it. But yea, don't try anything with Darkness. Pre-Darkness is kinda borderline, but Darkness would fail to this rules stated above.
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2013-10-19, 13:00 | Link #5 |
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In practice, Canadian Customs representatives have commented before that they are aware of anime/manga culture and know that -- due to art style and everything else -- they're not going to throw the book at you for "fanservice". Similar fanservice-filled manga have actually been published in Canada, so precedent suggests they're not going to lose their mind over that. The stuff that has actually been turned away is generally 18+ manga or anime that contain explicit, obscene content. So although the law is written broadly, they don't take an overly-literal reading when it comes to "mild" stuff. And yes, in considering the broad spectrum of stuff that's out there, To-Love Ru Darkness is mild; it just gets away with a lot for what is technically an all-ages work in Japan.
Of course, I am not a lawyer, but from the Canadian importers I know, this sort of stuff is regularly imported without issue.
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2013-10-19, 13:30 | Link #6 |
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 37
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The only time I've heard of them raiding someone's house I recall it involved importing lolicon rape type material, though I recall one guy got arrested at the border for having a Nanoha doujin on his laptop and was later released after the crown dropped charges. In other situations I've only heard of package seizures and the like.
As for the quoted wikipedia paragraph, I'm not an expert but I think it misses a couple of the nuances: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/a...8.html#docCont Note that: -The law targets depictions of explicit sexual activity, not necessarily all depictions. It also doesn't target all nudity. -Written material is only targeted if it advocates sexual activity with an underaged person (though case law says you can do so implicitly) or depicts in a manner designed to arouse sexual activity with minors that would be illegal under the Criminal Code (Canada is actually pretty reasonable about teens screwing each other). -There is an artistic merit defense. The basic gist I get is they aren't trying to target absolutely everything - and indeed, from what I've observed a lot of stuff gets through if it's not too explicit. Obscenity provisions I'm less sure on, though I know they're often used to seize material containing with a focus on sexual violence.
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2013-10-19, 13:37 | Link #7 |
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My point is that the writing is extremely ambiguous, and I am aware that nudity does not equal obscenity. You don't have to go to the extremes of tossing all your manga away and delete all your fanfiction because they won't raid you. I used Darkness as an example as something that's hardly as extreme as what you could get that you could potentially get hung anyways. (Aka, if they really want to, you can't argue yourself out of it). A broad law is always dangerous because while they won't chase you for it, it's an opportunity.
And the truth is, do you want to argue with them on this when it's their word vs yours? There's a lot of people who aren't knowledgable on these things and don't care. You can explain it to us easily why it isn't a bad thing; it's not so easy when people just have their conceived stereotype of animu. And even if it turns out they are wrong, you are right, and they do let you go, I just don't think it's worth the hassle in a lot of circumstances. You don't be want to be "that one" Never paint yourself into a dead end. And umm, Fuck the Police.
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2013-10-19, 13:49 | Link #8 |
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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I'm not a fan of the law and I'm actually serious cautious about what I import myself. I'm just saying there's a pretty established track record out there for both individuals and businesses successfully importing fanservicy material.
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2013-10-19, 14:07 | Link #9 | |
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Of course, there's a risk, and people have to decide how much risk they're willing to take. But, in this case for example, they reviewed the book and let it pass through customs, so it's in the clear. No sense worrying about it further. They're not the sort to let something pass through their fingers and then later come after you like some sort of "gotcha". Customs' job is to keep illegal items out of the country in the first place.
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2013-10-19, 17:48 | Link #10 | |
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Anyways...from what I heard, it still might depend on what province it arrives in; Ontario is the strictest, while Quebec and British Columbia might be a bit looser. However, this is just a guess.
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2013-10-19, 18:32 | Link #11 | |
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I think it's more important to pass all available information so that people have to ability to protect themselves in whatever decision they choose in the future. Especially since we don't like the nature of things in their locality, I think it's better to err on the side of caution rather than just saying nothing will happen; it's more like nothing will happen in this instance. Like I've said before in this thread that no sane person is going to enforce anything in these cases and no you shouldn't toss your stuff away. But it's still an issue that requires some concern.
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2013-10-19, 20:55 | Link #13 |
ゴリゴリ!
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I got through customs just fine when coming home from Anime Expo with a bag full of stuff. Granted, none of the artbooks/figures/merch I buy has anything you could call fanservice in them, but all they did was look in the bag. Didn't flip open any books, open any packaging, anything like that.
They do their job as needed, but they won't hold you for anything unnecessary. Of course, don't be taking straight-up hentai through there, because that'll immediately trip a red flag.
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2013-10-20, 06:52 | Link #15 |
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Archon Wing did emphasis a lot on "don't allow questionable material go through custom". Agreed that it increases the chance, but i thought they could track any of those questionable materials if you access it through the net?
Or is it because they are physical evidences in your luggage. While if it's on internet, you can just make excuses for it (like "i click on the link without knowing what is inside") ?
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2013-10-20, 11:07 | Link #16 | ||
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In the end, most agents have seen it all and just don't care unless it is, in fact, illegal. Each country has their own thing they're uptight about. My experience travelling has been that U.S. customs are mostly about "securing our borders", and Canadian customs are mostly about "securing our import taxes", though of course both care about both issues.
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2013-10-20, 11:45 | Link #17 |
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Thanks for answer. I had not given much though before ordering the artbook, to Love Ru being, as I said, dubious but not hentai. (I just hope to not be flagged or something, because I ordered a couple of figurines from AMI-AMI. Not R-Rated figurines, or even ''Beach Queens'' figurines, but....)
Just to ask one for last time for your opinion : if the customs let the artbook pass without any question (there was plently of fanservice in the book, but not much nudity proper), I don't risk anything legally ? |
2013-10-20, 13:53 | Link #18 | |
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2013-10-20, 14:49 | Link #19 | |
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You're not going to get pwned for just lolicon. The chances of that exist but it's as low as me getting breast cancer. And I'm a guy. And yes, when it comes to physical "old fashioned" evidence, it's just much harder to disassociate it from yourself. And the ability to physically detain you that's the key problem. You might be left with nothing bad on you, but authorities will often try to use "tactics" to get you to "confess" because it's their job to assume you're up to no good. And the certain irony that hentai would completely skirt the law if it wasn't totally "obscene" because those cartoon characters are of age makes me chuckle a bit. And a possible workaround, really. >.> In the end, this is based of my own paranoia, and yes, I would say such a law is bullshit and it would deter me a bit; if possible I wouldn't import anything and only bother it if it was available in country, or better yet, locally. :S That's how the law would affect me personally.
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2013-10-20, 15:04 | Link #20 | |
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However, that's one pretty big issue right there. A lot of the anime/hentai/manga/doujin seized by Canadian authorities actually came via the United States and not from Japan, ironically; some people told me that they felt safe "importing" lolicon from the US instead of Japan, which is hilariously false. Like I said before...IDK if they do this in Canada, but there's this thing called "controlled delivery" where Customs inspect something to see where it was intended to go. Generally this doesn't happen though...
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