AnoHana - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[Mr.Garfield]

I'm i the only one who feel emotional at the scene when Jintan's dad removes his hat?

[Arabesque]

I don't really anything more to add that hasn't already been said, other than loving this episode to the point where I had actually cried by the end of it.

That being said, I agree with Klashikari and TinyRedLeaf that there were a lot of questionable writing in this episode, but I honestly didn't mind them because of how good and powerful the rest of the episode was.

It's something that I learned from watching enough anime that Maria Okada had a hand on. You need to take the good with the bad to enjoy the whole. Okada has quite a haphazard style, so there is going something sacrificed in the writing department to make something else better. This dawned on me while watching Hanasaku 9 and having watched this episode it only cemented that theory. So the writing might be suspect, but it didn't lessen any of the impact this episode had on me.

Originally Posted by Mr.Garfield

I'm i the only one who feel emotional at the scene when Jintan's dad removes his hat?

I cried like a little girl.

[-Sho-]

So finally Menma did it. Pretty good episode , i didn't feel the emo though maybe cuz i'm tired today..

[foxnaught]

Originally Posted by -Sho-

So finally Menma did it. Pretty good episode , i didn't feel the emo though maybe cuz i'm tired today..

I felt more relief than anything. "It's about damn time"

[SkoolRumble4Ya]

Yup finally Menma show herself. Now they can all stop saying how crazy Yadomi is.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Solace

Perhaps it's because I took a different meaning from his words. To me, it felt more like he was saying "I believe in the Menma Jintan believes in", not that he actually believed that she existed.

I kind of see what you're saying, in fairness, but Poppo strikes me as a more straightforward guy than that. But who knows, I could be mistaken about him.

My own view is that, by all outward appearances, Jinta has consistently acted as though the Menma he's talking to and seeing is real. So if Poppo believes in the Menma that Jinta believes in, then Poppo believes that she's real.

At the end of the episode he's in shock and disbelief just like the others....did she really write that?

Even when a person sincerely believes in something, there can be a sense of surprise when that belief is unexpectedly confirmed.

For example, many people sincerely believe that there is sentient alien life out there, but many such people would likely be shocked if such an alien just showed up at their doorstep one day to give a message directly to them (and that's not terribly unlike what Menma just did here).

I think that shock at unexpected confirmation (which Poppo may have no longer expected due to numerous failed attempts to reach Menma) is much of what causes Poppo to be surprised at Menma's sudden appearance.

You are right though, it is good to have at least one less skeptical viewpoint. I think Poppo played a big part in helping Jintan get everyone back together.

I agree with you here.

Much like your Gundam example, an otherwise serious setting...

I see what you're saying here, but I think there's a danger in equating "serious" with "realistic".

Consider The Lord of the Rings, for example. It is not realistic (in the sense that it has many fantastical elements). It's high fantasy. It's also very serious.

I don't think that its fantastical elements takes away from the quality of its serious drama.


Now, fantastical elements need to be used carefully in a drama, I think. So if they're used in a way that feels "off" to people, that can cause issues, yes.


But in any case. Anohana is a serious drama, in my view. It's also a very good one, I think.

[Keriaku]

I have to say that the last scene of this episode with the diary was the first time I've ever been tearing up and smiling at the same time. This series is beautiful.

[Echoes]

This episode was, without the slightest hint of exaggeration, the best episode I've seen in years.

I can't break down why it was such a fantastic experience, but I'll compliment it the only way I know how. I cried so much at the end of the episode.
I didn't get teary-eyed; I cried, full tears running down my cheeks and eyes left a fiery crimson. For a show to evoke such an incredibly powerful emotional response from me, it's doing something very right. Words fail me, but the ones that come to the forefront of me mind is "thank you."

[achirist]

I really didn't like Jin-tan in this episode at all; the way he just walked away from Anaru without saying anything when she broke down, his moralistic, unsupportive comments to Menma's brother (when no, it is NOT justifiable for his parents to neglect him and enter their own little emotional cocoon of greif when they still have a child who needs their support) and generally stupid plan of working 24/7 to build fireworks when they don't even know if that is her wish. I can understand why everyone was fed up with him at the end of the episode; he is so empty. But, personally, after the last scene, I wouldn't really be that convinced of Menma's existence if I were them. It isn't so clear cut; it's not like she walked across the room with the book in her hands.

[CWW]

Might I suggest using your imagination?

[blakstealth]

I teared up at the last scene. I haven't teared up on anything in months lol.

Great episode.

[broken270]

I am sure that I do not need to add on from what most of you said, being that she finally did something to make her existence notable and that this is probably one of the best anime in existence. I really teared up in the last part where, as soon as Yukiatsu, Anaru, and Tsuruko were in their heated state, and Jinta was crashing down, Menma just dropped everything right there. It was just ... tear jerking. I do not know how else or what else to say there. This was a really good episode. Menma's mom breaking down, Anaru confessing, everything about it. It was just ... great. I am speechless.

[Guardian Enzo]

I remain astonished at how popular this series is, and pleasantly so. No real moe, not much action, virtually no sex and an even balance of male-female characters without romance on the front burner. Yet it's doing superbly in pre-sales and boffo on all the ratings sites. Thank you, NoitaminA, for staying the course for quality - this is your reward!

[Master Chibi]

Clannad doesn't belong anywhere near this show, even as a comparison.

I mean you can say this show does super natural because of Menma, but the REAL meat and potatoes of the story is how the whole cast is dealing with what happened to her that day, not Menma her self.

Clannad had some retarded ass plot that revolved around not pissing off the town or some other shit, like it was a rejected script for Twilight Zone episode.

As for the people saying that they finally broke Menma in too late, this show isn't about her, it's about everyone that she was friends with. They haven't actually developed Menma since the show started. All we know is that she's dead, she loved to hang out with everyone, and she doesn't know why she's hovering around Jin either. Every other character in the show has had some very serious development given to them, especially in regards to this last episode.

Clannad was boring up until the end of the first season, and then went down the shitter until they got to Ushio in season 2. Even then the show felt more like it was slapping you around then actually telling a story.

I actually care for everyone in this show. Even Jin's father, Menma's mother, her brother, everyone. I want to see how everyone has been dealing with Menma's death. Clannad just had me wondering who else they would kill off just to make it a 'better story' or more 'tragic'.

[guuchan]

A very straightforward comment on CLANNAD. I already made mine in my previous post so not going to repeat.

Anyone noticed the impliation of the scene showing Honma house's doorplate right before the OP song? Menma's mom naturally wants to keep Menma's name there, but what about Menma's dad? If he wanted, I'm pretty sure Menma's name would have been removed. Keeping a deceased person's name on the doorplate would just invite unpleasant questions. As much as he tried to act tough, he just wanted Menma's mom to move on, but how much has he himself "moved on", comparing to Jinta and others? Something interesting to think about.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Master Chibi

Clannad doesn't belong anywhere near this show, even as a comparison.

I mean you can say this show does super natural because of Menma, but the REAL meat and potatoes of the story is how the whole cast is dealing with what happened to her that day, not Menma her self.

Clannad had some retarded ass plot that revolved around not pissing off the town or some other shit, like it was a rejected script for Twilight Zone episode.

As for the people saying that they finally broke Menma in too late, this show isn't about her, it's about everyone that she was friends with. They haven't actually developed Menma since the show started. All we know is that she's dead, she loved to hang out with everyone, and she doesn't know why she's hovering around Jin either. Every other character in the show has had some very serious development given to them, especially in regards to this last episode.

Clannad was boring up until the end of the first season, and then went down the shitter until they got to Ushio in season 2. Even then the show felt more like it was slapping you around then actually telling a story.

I actually care for everyone in this show. Even Jin's father, Menma's mother, her brother, everyone. I want to see how everyone has been dealing with Menma's death. Clannad just had me wondering who else they would kill off just to make it a 'better story' or more 'tragic'.

Count me as one who also feels this show is light years ahead of Clannad so far. Considering only 3/4 of an arc in Clannad/After Story did anything for me (about 3 episodes) and that this show has been very good to excellent since the start of the 3rd episode at least (about 6 episodes and counting now) though that's not really a surprise.

I think it helps that the strong cast of this show is always around and is the heart of the story whereas the cast in Clannad seemed to operate on a revolving door and characters would disappear for stretches at a time simply because it wasn't their "arc". I frankly don't like that style of adaptation at all where it feels to much like they are trying to recreate a visual novel feel verbatim as opposed to adapting a screenplay for a TV anime format. I prefer a natural feel and flow like AnoHana has had so far where it feels like it's in the proper format and running at a pace that is fit for said format.

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I remain astonished at how popular this series is, and pleasantly so. No real moe, not much action, virtually no sex and an even balance of male-female characters without romance on the front burner. Yet it's doing superbly in pre-sales and boffo on all the ratings sites. Thank you, NoitaminA, for staying the course for quality - this is your reward!

These are actually other reasons why I think I took such a liking to this show when other slice of life shows have failed to reach me so frequently in the past. It doesn't really feel like this show is made for any specific niche in particular so much as anyone who is capable of taking notice of it. You don't have to be into moe to enjoy this show, you don't have to be into sexy character designs to enjoy this show, you don't have to be into romance to enjoy this show, you don't have to be into all female casts to enjoy this show....you just have to have an appreciation for strong likable characters and good old fashioned drama. I mean this is kind of like the type of anime I fell in love with way back in the early 90's as opposed to a lot of the stuff these days that feels a little too niche for me at times. It feels like strong character drama is making a comeback of late too and god help me I hope I'm right about that.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

These are actually other reasons why I think I took such a liking to this show when other slice of life shows have failed to reach me so frequently in the past. It doesn't really feel like this show is made for any specific niche in particular so much as anyone who is capable of taking notice of it. You don't have to be into moe to enjoy this show, you don't have to be into sexy character designs to enjoy this show, you don't have to be into romance to enjoy this show, you don't have to be into all female casts to enjoy this show....you just have to have an appreciation for strong likable characters and good old fashioned drama. I mean this is kind of like the type of anime I fell in love with way back in the early 90's as opposed to a lot of the stuff these days that feels a little too niche for me at times.

I think you're right about all that - but that's exactly why I'm shocked it's so popular.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

It feels like strong character drama is making a comeback of late too and god help me I hope I'm right about that.

I hope you are, too! I guess that's the Occam's Razor explanation for why this show is a hit. But I'm hard-pressed to think of any shows in this vein that have been really popular lately, so color me pleasantly shocked by AnoHana's success and skeptical (but hopeful) that it represents anything more than an aberration.

[Pellissier]

Before it goes too far, please remember, move to the generic thread with series overall impressions and comparisons with other shows. This thread is for episode 8 only.

[HurricaneHige]

It has taken me quite a long time before writing about AnoHana...first off, lemme say this, this episode was pretty good, but for a leaky faucet like me I did not even shed a tear. It was emotional, it was powerful, but it was...lacking?

The anime overall had caught me from the get-go, it was an interesting anime because it was something so simple. It was a fairly realistic representation of a circle of people deeply affected by a tragic death. This episode is a very good example of this...a realistic example of a bunch of formerly closed friends tied together loosely by a 'ghost', until their little adventure struck too close to home and breaking up the weak ties they had. The only difference is that Menma actually exists, but only the viewers know that, until now. I've seen a few posts here, and on some blogs stating that revealing Menma was a bad writing mistake, or that Menma should have revealed herself from the get-go if she could, and taking her this long is just plain bad writing. I have to disagree with the above viewpoint, and I will state why:

Think deep about Menma's purpose for a second...she wishes to have a wish granted, that is the base premise. From the surface it seems like the fastest way to do so is reveal herself, right? Now think about this from Menma's point of view, ignoring the wish part. By stepping into Jinta's life, she effectively brought the Peace Buster back together. She stated multiple times that she really love seeing how everyone's back together. So, is it possible that Menma is not revealing herself on purpose, in order for the living to trust one another again? A lot hinges on the gang's trust on Jinta, so if the group can trust Jinta's Menma without her revealing herself, then isn't it better from Menma's point-of-view? Of course, after it all fell apart this episode the only thing left to do is to reveal herself to reestablish the trust.

I purposely ignored the wish part because to Menma it was never really part of Menma's concern, even though it was her only means of existence. It was evident when Popo tried to talk with Menma about her wish, she was distressed over the topic as she had no idea what she was actually there for, and also likely that she hasn't given much thought into it while she got the gang back together. Thus, I would argue that you should leave that part out when thinking from Menma's point-of-view, and her delayed revelation of her presence, in my opinion, makes a whole lot more sense. Also adding to that was Menma's own understanding of her presence's disturbance. Menma had explicitly stated that she did not want to show herself to her mother or Anjou because it would make them sad, indicating that Menma herself was well-aware of some, if not all, character's regret/guilt towards her. This awareness likely added to the above point, and Menma would not have revealed herself until she had no other choice...mainly because her mother decided to drop the nuke on the group.

Now from the plot's viewpoint, the show isn't really about Menma, similar to what Master Chibi said. I would argue that Menma hasn't changed at all since episode one until this one, where she seemed to have received some clue about Jinta's mother, or maybe even a direct glimpse about her wish perhaps. Anyways...that's off on a tangent. To me...this anime is a realistic story about the lives of a circle of people, like I said at the beginning of my post. These people all held regrets, even guilt, over the death of a very close friend, or family. Each episode we see the characters as they try to face or exorcise their own demons about the incident. That is what made the show interesting. If this show was really just about a ghost coming back and asking for a wish, many of us would have dropped this recycled plot of an anime long ago.

I have more to say, but I'm too tired to think.

[Gohan78]

My two cents about Menma's reveal scene: I think it happened too late. I hate it when a solution is crystal clear to the viewers but the characters in the show just don't get it. It means that the characters are dumbened down for the sake of the plot. This is a flaw in an otherwise excellent series.
For comparison, one major criticism to MadoMagi was that the girls never asked Kyubei if it was possible to simply wish away all of the witches. Without spoilering the answer, the question should have been asked.

The reasons presented in this thread as to why Menma didn't reveal herself before seem unconvincing to me.
1. If I could reluctantly accept that Menma is so naive that she didn't even think of showing herself to the others, I have difficulty reconciling this fact with the ending of episode 5, when Menma was clearly frustrated that she couldn't appear before Poppo.
2. Even if Jintan initially thought that she was a figment of his imagination, the muffins already prooven that this isn't the case. Unless you want to argue that Jinta made the muffins himself, but he never seemed that insane.
3. Having proof of the existence of Menma's ghost would greatly benefit their cause, since it was evident that the other SPB (maybe with the exception of Poppo) were just playing around with Jinta's "delusions". Yukiatsu vehemently protested against this very notion and Tsuruko straight out told Jinta that she didn't believe in his Menma.
There was no reason to hide her existence.