Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei - generic discussion thread (NO SPOILERS)

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by Magewolf

Also the school structure does not make any sense. If you have 900 students you plan to teach one thing and 900 you do not there is no reason to have them at the same school. Make 6 schools with 300 students each. 3 of them have teachers 3 of them do not. That takes care of all the class problems. And you can still call up replacements as needed since they are training themselves under either system.

There are nine high schools in the country. The first high school to which Tatsuya and the others are going have has a cap of 200 students total. Besides, the issue is not with not teaching them, but not giving them teaching support, which is a slight difference.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Magewolf

Thanks for the info. I have not read the LN's so I was unaware of that.

But if that is the case why does the school have so much institutionalized classism? The different uniforms , not letting weeds be on the student council ,the staff pick for the discipline committee being a raging tool ,and all the second hand treatment must have a reason because all it does in practice is hurt the learning process. I had assumed that it was a reflection of the outside world but if it is not then I am at a loss.

It isn't really classism. Those grades only apply to within the school. Technically everyone in First High counts as an "elite", which Tats points out in the first episode. Basically all the discrimination crap comes purely from the students getting big heads over being a primary or depressed over being a "reserve".

So yeah, high school students are bastards. What else is new.

Spoiler for supplement:

BTW, its normally never this bad or blatant. However, Tats is the brother of the highest ranked student, and his closeness to her prevents others from getting close, which ticks them off. Also, his abnormal combat ability takes that superiority complex by the feet and dunks its head in cold water. So he gets about ten times the normal shit.

Originally Posted by Magewolf

Also the school structure does not make any sense. If you have 900 students you plan to teach one thing and 900 you do not there is no reason to have them at the same school. Make 6 schools with 300 students each. 3 of them have teachers 3 of them do not. That takes care of all the class problems. And you can still call up replacements as needed since they are training themselves under either system.

Then they would have to fund twice as many schools and facilities, and even without teachers there is still staff necessary to run the schools. That isn't a practical decision no matter which way you look at it.

Originally Posted by Magewolf

And I still do not understand the lack of teachers. Unless they only started the schools a couple of years ago. Otherwise why not take the top 10 weeds at each school have them sign on to be teachers in trade for training and move heaven and earth to make sure they get everything they need. Then in some 7 years you would have 90 more teachers which would let you train more of the weeds which would let you get even more teachers.

The only people who can teach Magicians are magicians. And since Tats already mentioned the higher income jobs available to trained magicians, you can imagine that most of them take that instead of a lower-paying teaching job.

[HandofFate]

Originally Posted by Magewolf

Also the school structure does not make any sense. If you have 900 students you plan to teach one thing and 900 you do not there is no reason to have them at the same school. Make 6 schools with 300 students each. 3 of them have teachers 3 of them do not. That takes care of all the class problems. And you can still call up replacements as needed since they are training themselves under either system.

And I still do not understand the lack of teachers. Unless they only started the schools a couple of years ago. Otherwise why not take the top 10 weeds at each school have them sign on to be teachers in trade for training and move heaven and earth to make sure they get everything they need. Then in some 7 years you would have 90 more teachers which would let you train more of the weeds which would let you get even more teachers.

All students are taught the same thing and have the same course. Only that course 1 students have teachers.

The 9 Magic schools end up specializing on different fields like forest maneuvers, sea, or magic engineering. So that's the differentiation for different schools.

About the lack of teachers.
Magicians ARE very very rare. Any highly talented magicians are going to be looking at high positions in the military or police force. Leaving ones that actually want to be teachers slim.

1st High Magic University that Tatsuya and Miyuki are in, have a fixed quota of only 200 students divided into the two courses.

4th-9th High have a fixed quote of only 100 students.

[pampz21]

Lol
Erika is really pushing Tatsuya's wallet!

[Byakou]

Episode was a bit boring, with more pointless fanservice than usual.

At the end when the siblings reveal they are part of a certain family which I don't recall the name - is it meant as some sort of revelation? Is that family a big deal? Does everyone else in the school know?

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by Byakou

At the end when the siblings reveal they are part of a certain family which I don't recall the name - is it meant as some sort of revelation? Is that family a big deal? Does everyone else in the school know?

The name of the family is Yotsuba (四葉), one of the "numbered" families mentioned before (the first kanji means four). The numbered families counting up to ten are the most powerful and influential families of magic users in the country. Of the people we saw Mayumi and Juumonji are of numbered families through ten. Shiba is basically an altered version of that name as garbage theorized before the first kanji of Yotsuba can be pronounced "Shi" and the second is "ba". Moreover the name indicates that they are affiliated (or even own) Four Leaves Technology, the company that produces those Taurus Silver equipment Tatsuya wields. And no, nobody else seems to know, otherwise their profile would be much bigger at school.

[pampz21]

Originally Posted by Byakou

Episode was a bit boring, with more pointless fanservice than usual.

At the end when the siblings reveal they are part of a certain family which I don't recall the name - is it meant as some sort of revelation? Is that family a big deal? Does everyone else in the school know?

Remember Tatsuya's hints in the first episode?
"Numbers"

Yotsu=four
Ba=leaves

And you know Tatsuya's engineering computer has FLT on it?
FLT= four leaves technology

Meaning they are part of the Yotsuba Clan.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

All students are taught the same thing and have the same course. Only that course 1 students have teachers.

The 9 Magic schools end up specializing on different fields like forest maneuvers, sea, or magic engineering. So that's the differentiation for different schools.

About the lack of teachers.
Magicians ARE very very rare. Any highly talented magicians are going to be looking at high positions in the military or police force. Leaving ones that actually want to be teachers slim.

So force them to teach part time. And don't tell me about their individual freedoms because:
- they're apparently already forced into stuff because they're needed for the country's power and so on.
- teaching requirements for certain positions exist IRL

[Ultragunner]

Originally Posted by Magewolf

Thanks for the info. I have not read the LN's so I was unaware of that.

But if that is the case why does the school have so much institutionalized classism? The different uniforms , not letting weeds be on the student council ,the staff pick for the discipline committee being a raging tool ,and all the second hand treatment must have a reason because all it does in practice is hurt the learning process. I had assumed that it was a reflection of the outside world but if it is not then I am at a loss.


Also the school structure does not make any sense. If you have 900 students you plan to teach one thing and 900 you do not there is no reason to have them at the same school. Make 6 schools with 300 students each. 3 of them have teachers 3 of them do not. That takes care of all the class problems. And you can still call up replacements as needed since they are training themselves under either system.

And I still do not understand the lack of teachers. Unless they only started the schools a couple of years ago. Otherwise why not take the top 10 weeds at each school have them sign on to be teachers in trade for training and move heaven and earth to make sure they get everything they need. Then in some 7 years you would have 90 more teachers which would let you train more of the weeds which would let you get even more teachers.

Somehow people just kinda ignored the bolded words . Yeah, why the different uniform I wonder? It really doesn't make any sense at all

[Faerie]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I think Erika has a nice amount of spunk and fire. She's a good contrast to Miyuki.

As for Mari, I think her personality suits her role well, and that adds a lot of believability to this show. She makes a good Commissioner Gordon to Tatsuya's Bruce Wayne.

Yes! I agree on Mari and Erika, I like them too and I think they are well-done. If it wasn't for them, I'd have thrown a full-on fit about the cast already I just hope the positive impression they made isn't just because we haven't seen enough of them yet.


I too like Miyuki's voice and character design and her basic premise is interesting, so my issue is that I really want to like her and subjectively do, but the show isn't giving me a single reason to like her actual character. Her scenes are generally cheap and artificial, they seem to be going for some kind of Perfect Girlfriend/Imouto/both Sue with her. So far, she in particular has been written horribly, but so has most of the side cast, don't mistake me for picking on Miyuki in particular She's just the most obvious offender.

So, anyway, I think this is why Miyuki goes on and on and on about her brother. It doesn't necessarily make it any less exasperating from a viewer perspective, but I think it can justify her character a bit.

Yes, I do get that. To be honest, I can understand where she's coming from, so part doesn't bother me much. In fact, it makes sense to me. The stupid jelliness scenes though... Those are bad.
They're really only there, because otaku find that cute.

What bothers me more, is how Miyuki is being set up as this massive canon sue though and every one else is just there to worship at her altar.
Tatsuya is fine... He DOES have appreciable, real weaknesses. He is regarded as inferior because of them- so it's fine that she feels the need to defend him. It's laid on thick, but it dos make undeniable sense, given her background. I do like the admiration for her brother (or even that she's in love with him, since that's potentially an interesting plot point)
The rest of her though... I hope I'm wrong about this impression I got, I really do.

Spoiler for Not really a spoiler, just commenting on internal monologue from last episodes corresponding chapter:

more so even than the anime, where I already thought it was already laid on thick, the scenes in the novel seem to go on and on about her virgin white underwear (it actually says Virgin White, yes, and also yes, I almost threw up ) and perfect features and perfect hair and perfect personality and perfect this and perfect that. There is apparently no one in the world as perfect as Miyuki. A perfectly cut diamond is not half as perfect as Miyuki. No other two dimensional waifu is as perfect as Miyuki.
Miyuki is the most perfect of the perfect Yamato Nadeshiko. She wears virgin White and probably poops rainbows. Lacus Clyne and Asuna would blush in her presence.

I exaggerate a bit, but that's the impression I got.
This level of characterisation would be bad even at a first time fanfic writer level.

Now, there is nothing wrong with well-written characters in her position or with her credentials at all. But they're setting her up as this entirely artificial character... that's usually a pretty big negative sign in my book... Not keen on this type of bad writing at all.

Overall I feel this isn't a bad show, it (and the novel itself probably) just could've done with a competent editor to tighten it up and iron out the rookie/mediocre writer bits of it.

[Magewolf]

Originally Posted by XFire

It isn't really classism. Those grades only apply to within the school. Technically everyone in First High counts as an "elite", which Tats points out in the first episode. Basically all the discrimination crap comes purely from the students getting big heads over being a primary or depressed over being a "reserve".

So yeah, high school students are bastards. What else is new.

Spoiler for supplement:

BTW, its normally never this bad or blatant. However, Tats is the brother of the highest ranked student, and his closeness to her prevents others from getting close, which ticks them off. Also, his abnormal combat ability takes that superiority complex by the feet and dunks its head in cold water. So he gets about ten times the normal shit.

Then they would have to fund twice as many schools and facilities, and even without teachers there is still staff necessary to run the schools. That isn't a practical decision no matter which way you look at it.



The only people who can teach Magicians are magicians. And since Tats already mentioned the higher income jobs available to trained magicians, you can imagine that most of them take that instead of a lower-paying teaching job.

No it would be the same number of schools or less since you would just be shuffling the students around and making some of the schools all class 1 and the rest all class 2.


Simply make the weeds you train sign contracts that they would work as teachers for some period of time in exchange for their magical training. If they break the contract they end up owing the government millions of dollars but if the stick it out after the period is over they could stay teachers or move on to better jobs. They do that in real life now and the government would have a lot more reason to do it in the show.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

So force them to teach part time. And don't tell me about their individual freedoms because:
- they're apparently already forced into stuff because they're needed for the country's power and so on.
- teaching requirements for certain positions exist IRL

Your idea is an interesting and likely feasible one, but I don't think it's a slam-dunk case. I mean, I can understand people in power thinking that it wouldn't be worth it.

To put it bluntly/simply, I could see people in power thinking that it's more important to keep their rare highly talented magicians happy than it is to ensure teachers for everybody who shows even a little bit of magic ability. Now, you can disagree with that position, but it's not an unreasonable one, not from a purely pragmatic perspective, at least.

In other words, I don't consider it a fault in the show or its writing - It's not unbelievable.

Originally Posted by Magewolf

Simply make the weeds you train sign contracts that they would work as teachers for some period of time in exchange for their magical training. If they break the contract they end up owing the government millions of dollars but if the stick it out after the period is over they could stay teachers or move on to better jobs. They do that in real life now and the government would have a lot more reason to do it in the show.

Really? Where? I'm not aware of any profession where merely getting trained in said profession means you're contractually obligated to teach that profession to other people.

Honestly, this strikes me as a bad idea. Just because somebody is good at magic, or good at engineering, doesn't mean they'll be any good at all at teaching.

Why is it so hard for some of you guys to accept that the Weeds don't have in-classroom teachers? It's not an unthinkable idea - Give people course materials to read and study, and then administer tests to them after a certain period of time. Heck, you can have an entirely automated instruction system for certain things.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Your idea is an interesting and likely feasible one, but I don't think it's a slam-dunk case. I mean, I can understand people in power thinking that it wouldn't be worth it.

To put it bluntly/simply, I could see people in power thinking that it's more important to keep their rare highly talented magicians happy than it is to ensure teachers for everybody who shows even a little bit of magic ability. Now, you can disagree with that position, but it's not an unreasonable one, not from a purely pragmatic perspective, at least.

In other words, I don't consider it a fault in the show or its writing - It's not unbelievable.

- it's about raising the next generation of magicians, which you'll need every bit as much as the present generation.
- they are, if Tatsuya's to be believed, already forced to cooperate with the military. Going to teach one day a week should only be slightly more appalling than facing bullets and enemy magicians.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Really? Where? I'm not aware of any profession where merely getting trained in said profession means you're contractually obligated to teach that profession to other people.

France. I got paid during my studies in exchange for a promise to work for the state once they were done.

There are also a lot of research positions that come with an obligation to teach.

Honestly, this strikes me as a bad idea. Just because somebody is good at magic, or good at engineering, doesn't mean they'll be any good at all at teaching.

Why is it so hard for some of you guys to accept that the Weeds don't have in-classroom teachers? It's not an unthinkable idea - Give people course materials to read and study, and then administer tests to them after a certain period of time. Heck, you can have an entirely automated instruction system for certain things.

It's actually more palatable than the uniform thing, which is truly pointless. Not to mention the... forgiving attitude toward the bullying of Class 2 students.

But if they really need more teachers, they could easily get more teachers, is the point. They just chose not to.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

- it's about raising the next generation of magicians, which you'll need every bit as much as the present generation.

Yes, and that's why the blooms get in-classroom teachers. The blooms probably represent the minimum they want to get for "the next generation of magicians". They'd like to get some weeds beyond that, but it probably becomes a question of "want" vs. "need" at that point, and so a different want might take priority.

- they are, if Tatsuya's to be believed, already forced to cooperate with the military. Going to teach one day a week should only be slightly more appalling than facing bullets and enemy magicians.

So they're likely already making sacrifices. Their morale is likely already being tested. An argument could be made that they should be able to enjoy whatever breaks they can get beyond that.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Magewolf

No it would be the same number of schools or less since you would just be shuffling the students around and making some of the schools all class 1 and the rest all class 2.


Simply make the weeds you train sign contracts that they would work as teachers for some period of time in exchange for their magical training. If they break the contract they end up owing the government millions of dollars but if the stick it out after the period is over they could stay teachers or move on to better jobs. They do that in real life now and the government would have a lot more reason to do it in the show.

So they should devote entire schools to people already designated as less capable? Yeah, that's an efficient way to raise magic potential.

And for the bolded part, you're saying force them to choose a low-paying job because of their school placement. Which is also ignoring the fact that the Weeds are Weeds because of their low magic abilities. How are they going to teach new students anything?

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by XFire

So they should devote entire schools to people already designated as less capable? Yeah, that's an efficient way to raise magic potential.

And for the bolded part, you're saying force them to choose a low-paying job because of their school placement. Which is also ignoring the fact that the Weeds are Weeds because of their low magic abilities. How are they going to teach new students anything?

The old adage: "those who can't do, teach".

They'd only be asked to teach (relatively) low level, or theory-heavy classes, so as to free up the other teachers for more demanding stuff.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

So they're likely already making sacrifices. Their morale is likely already being tested. An argument could be made that they should be able to enjoy whatever breaks they can get beyond that.

Not all of them. Just take the ones who aren't asked to fight on the frontline.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Miyuki is one of my two favorite characters here. I get where people are coming from saying she's badly written, etc., but I disagree. I think the writers know exactly what they are doing in presenting her as this much over the top. I find her both touching/lovable and also funny. She keeps having to apologize for causing trouble, then her impulses lead her to cause trouble yet again. Her being a somewhat comic character makes her even more endearing. Being endearing, in fact, is her main characteristic. That and being insanely powerful. Both are forms of fanservice, and fanservice of various kinds lies at the heart of all popular literature, whose main purpose is to move us emotionally. Relax and enjoy.

[Rogue66]

the episode was ok if revealed a bit of background information of Miyuki and Tatsuya and the organisation in all his episode was just building up for the next episode.

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by SkullFaerie

^ I agree with this, to an extent. I too am starting to see where some of the high regard comes from in relation to the hints we got as to the world and underlying plot. I too am interested in the world and wider issues presented. They are interesting and appear to be complex.

The problem is, I completely fail to see the appeal of the cast. What has been described as "sweet and compelling romance" and "beautiful, perfect characters" to me is painful cheese and horrid character conception, at least so far. Not sure how far that is attributable to the anime leaving stuff out. To an extent it probably is, so I'm still hoping it'll get better.
There is nothing compelling about how artificial and forced these characters are. With Tatsuya, I have an idea why that is and it may be plausible. I'm still neutral on that front, because he is, in theory at least, interesting enough.
With the others.. Less so. There's no excuse to wax lyrical about how perfect your character is and remind people ad nauseam as to all of their perfect features. It's bad writing. It's fanfic-y. It's not done better in the novel vs the anime at least in the corresponding extracts I've seen. I guess writing proper characters is one of the very noticeable weaknesses of LN authors though, and here too, it's pretty obvious. Same goes for the obligatory fanservice. It doesn't matter how cheap or awkward it is, just cram it right in there (sure, there may have been something in the way of an "explanation" left out this time round)
So I can't chalk that up to anime being anime so much as a LN being what it is. In this regard, I find this work to be characteristically juvenile and I can see that putting off a lot of people who would be interested in the actual plot.

But if you sit down and chisel away the cardboard characterisation, the wooden interaction, the pointless pandering, you might find a story that's actually pretty good. Possibly even very good. I just wish some editor had sat down and done exactly that, you might have ended up with a product where you don't need to constantly tell viewers to "hold on, it gets better" . I do believe people when they say that it will, but paying for a competent editor to improve your product never hurt anyone.

Keep in mind a few things
1 there are a lot of zealot fans and Shippers that blow their favorite Character or Ship why out of proportion for this series.
2 A lot of information and characterization is being skipped due to time If it is not directly related to the plot you are seeing about 65% of what's going on.
3 This novel was the authors first work and it shows the quality of his write does improve greatly as the series goes on. At the start he was great with world building but his characters were a little stilted.

[BW95]

Originally Posted by XFire

You misunderstood him.

Blanche claims that their is discrimination in favor of magicians because Magicians have a higher average salary. They want to eliminate this discrepancy.

Egalite wants their to be equality among magic students by removing magic ability as a point of evaluation.

Both of these are wonderful things on the surface. They also completely ignore reality.

Magic grades are used as evaluation because they are in a Magic High School. Its stated goal is to raise the strongest magicians possible. The divisions of classes is due to a limitation that neither the school nor the students can help: lack of teaching staff. So they naturally chose to focus what they could on those with higher potential.

You have two students. One studies for fifty hours a week and gets a 4.3 GPA. Another studies the same amount of time and gets a 3.0 GPA. Colleges are going to give a scholarship to the first student. That isn't discrimination, its a decision based on results.

For Blanche, the argument is even more ridiculous. The reason that Magicians have a higher average salary is because those employed as Magicians work in jobs that require substantial skill and talent and receive equivalent compensation in turn.

To put it in perspective, say you have a job that requires lifting fifty pound packages. You have three applicants: one who can lift fifty pounds, on who can lift thirty-five, and one with no arms. Obviously you hire the one that can accomplish the job.

I would also just like to point out that they also face significant occupational risks.

Originally Posted by Arya

What I didn't get was what Tatsuya was supposed to reply to Mari's response. I mean, was he supposed to reply something in particular?

Well, after her embarrassing outburst you'd expect the main character to get all flustered over such an exaggerated response.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I very much like the world-building and political drama/intrigue building up in Episode 4.

I also like how Tatsuya's political/philosophical observations are fairly complex and nuanced, not just simplistically "left" or simplistically "right".

Tatsuya might also be the most Bruce Wayne-esque anime character I've ever seen. Not just Batman, but Bruce Wayne as a whole. His soberness, his shrewdness, his valuing/managing of key allies and friends even while he maintains strong independence, his research, his combat skills, his improvisations, the way he evaluates other people, his ability to be charming and disarming in a pragmatic way... It's all very Bruce Wayne.

I'm starting to see why Mahouka is so highly thought of and popular. A lot of the dialogue really is nicely sophisticated, and the characters/plot/visuals/BGM all come together with the enticing smoothness of a good James Bond movie.

Well, Tatsuya's not trying to keep some fake attitude up when he's around civilians.

Originally Posted by rladls716

Bruce Wayne
Someone said it, yes someone had to say it, so I was not the only one who thought of that.
Except, Tatsuya uses guns.

Gun shaped CADs.

Originally Posted by Magewolf

Thanks for the info. I have not read the LN's so I was unaware of that.

But if that is the case why does the school have so much institutionalized classism? The different uniforms , not letting weeds be on the student council ,the staff pick for the discipline committee being a raging tool ,and all the second hand treatment must have a reason because all it does in practice is hurt the learning process. I had assumed that it was a reflection of the outside world but if it is not then I am at a loss.

I'm gonna have to ask you a favor. Don't use the uniforms as a point. Just ignore it and wait it out.

Originally Posted by Byakou

At the end when the siblings reveal they are part of a certain family which I don't recall the name - is it meant as some sort of revelation? Is that family a big deal? Does everyone else in the school know?

Well, it's one of the Ten Master Clans. Clearly no one else knows or else they wouldn't bother using different surnames, but the interesting aspect of this revelation lies in the whole "secret identity." Mayumi and Juumonji don't hide their surnames or the fact that they're Numbers. So why are our dear siblings hiding their identities?

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

So force them to teach part time. And don't tell me about their individual freedoms because:
- they're apparently already forced into stuff because they're needed for the country's power and so on.
- teaching requirements for certain positions exist IRL

Where'd you get that impression? Magicians are by no means obligated to serve in the military. Although, the fact that they're in high demand to bolster the nation's power and they get lots of benefits is pretty tempting.