Aldnoah.Zero - generic discussion thread

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Albel VII

Not to mention that the infodumping felt really forced.

This was one of my gripes, although I did enjoy the philosophical dialogue during the bar scene.

My other gripes:

1. A moon with that much debris is going to rain down dangerous objects for centuries. It doesn't take an object of much size to do a lot of damage. Not to mention it would be very difficult to run any kind of sophisticated satellite system and the decrease in moon mass would wreck havoc on the climate and the oceans. Simply put, if the moon suffered damage like that, it would cripple human civilization and possibly send it back centuries, assuming it survived at all. It's simply inconceivable that a nation like Japan would even exist, let alone thrive at the level the show depicts it at, barely a decade after the event.

2. In the span of less than three decades, humans colonized Mars, learned how to use alien artifacts, developed a superiority complex, and waged war against Earth. It's like the show can't establish a plausible timeline. On one hand this is supposed to have happened very rapidly, yet you have Vers characters speaking of Earth as this mythical ancestral homeland. It's really jarring, even if you accept the hilariously bad premise. At least Iron Sky was tongue in cheek.

3. How did the Empire even lose with all of that technology? Why even bother with a ceasefire? You have orbital stations the size of cities that can survive free fall into Earths atmosphere without a scratch. Assuming a controlled landing, they still caused a small nuclear level explosion upon landing and are perfectly fine. That's way beyond Earth level tech. We won't even mention the differences in mech technology.

4. How can security possibly be that lax to allow a truck with dozens of guided missiles to fire on an extremely important, weakly guarded diplomat using cell phones? For gods sake the US shut down the entire city of Boston after the marathon bombing to conduct a two person manhunt and yet here we have a road populated with hundreds of civilians, making it incredibly easy for a potential assassin to hide among them?

5. The main character is so emotionless that it's disturbing. "Hey guys, I just saw a missile. We should get out of here". Very deadpan. The guy in charge of conducting military training which uses heavy machinery openly drinks on the job. The count on the orbital station is all "I tried to talk the princess out of going!" yet we never see this at all. There's no explanation for how New Orleans, a city built below sea level which barely withstood a category 5 hurricane, was able to survive the moon exploding, sea levels rising, and half the country gone.

It's all just....very painful to watch. There's really good ideas here, but it's all put together so awkwardly that it almost feels like a parody of the genre.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

On the second viewing, I too noticed that the terrorists were in the bar too, and it seems like quite a coincidence that the doctor and lieutenant are also there, especially when the barkeep makes the observation that the doctor usually doesn't come there often and was asking if they guy was making a house call.

Also, you can see the terrorists were watching the two, and left as soon as the doctor sat down. Could it be the lieutenant was in on the attack and had gone there to meet them? Or was it the doctor, who by coming there gave the signal to the terrorists? Or it could just be a coincidence, but it's cool to speculate.

Probably coincidence. I see no reason for terrorists regardless of affiliation to hang around a bar that has the patronage of military personnel.

[Rennir]

^I was under the impression that the Vers empire is actually an ancient empire, which were the original builders of the Hyper Gate on the moon, and that 30 years ago is when humans from Earth discovered the Hyper Gate, causing the ancient Martian civilization to be able to travel to the Earth quickly.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Solace

This was one of my gripes, although I did enjoy the philosophical dialogue during the bar scene.

My other gripes:

1. A moon with that much debris is going to rain down dangerous objects for centuries. It doesn't take an object of much size to do a lot of damage. Not to mention it would be very difficult to run any kind of sophisticated satellite system and the decrease in moon mass would wreck havoc on the climate and the oceans. Simply put, if the moon suffered damage like that, it would cripple human civilization and possibly send it back centuries, assuming it survived at all. It's simply inconceivable that a nation like Japan would even exist, let alone thrive at the level the show depicts it at, barely a decade after the event.

2. In the span of less than three decades, humans colonized Mars, learned how to use alien artifacts, developed a superiority complex, and waged war against Earth. It's like the show can't establish a plausible timeline. On one hand this is supposed to have happened very rapidly, yet you have Vers characters speaking of Earth as this mythical ancestral homeland. It's really jarring, even if you accept the hilariously bad premise. At least Iron Sky was tongue in cheek.

3. How did the Empire even lose with all of that technology? Why even bother with a ceasefire? You have orbital stations the size of cities that can survive free fall into Earths atmosphere without a scratch. Assuming a controlled landing, they still caused a small nuclear level explosion upon landing and are perfectly fine. That's way beyond Earth level tech. We won't even mention the differences in mech technology.

4. How can security possibly be that lax to allow a truck with dozens of guided missiles to fire on an extremely important, weakly guarded diplomat using cell phones? For gods sake the US shut down the entire city of Boston after the marathon bombing to conduct a two person manhunt and yet here we have a road populated with hundreds of civilians, making it incredibly easy for a potential assassin to hide among them?

5. The main character is so emotionless that it's disturbing. "Hey guys, I just saw a missile. We should get out of here". Very deadpan. The guy in charge of conducting military training which uses heavy machinery openly drinks on the job. The count on the orbital station is all "I tried to talk the princess out of going!" yet we never see this at all. There's no explanation for how New Orleans, a city built below sea level which barely withstood a category 5 hurricane, was able to survive the moon exploding, sea levels rising, and half the country gone.

It's all just....very painful to watch. There's really good ideas here, but it's all put together so awkwardly that it almost feels like a parody of the genre.

1. Disregard for the sake of setting.
2. Disregard for the sake of setting. They had ancient Martian technology. Religious fanaticism. These a-hole lords that are invading look younger than 30 so they were probably raised with a superiority complex. In fact, all the characters are less than 30.
3. If I recall, they only began mass-producing those castles after Heaven's Fall.
4. It was a public parade. Security won't cover weapons in a truck in a parking lot several blocks away. Inappropriate analogy considering that was a response to a bombing that already happened. They couldn't stop it.
5. A count doesn't have the authority to stop a princess.

Originally Posted by Rennir

^I was under the impression that the Vers empire is actually an ancient empire, which were the original builders of the Hyper Gate on the moon, and that 30 years ago is when humans from Earth discovered the Hyper Gate, causing the ancient Martian civilization to be able to travel to the Earth quickly.

No. Read the timeline. Vers was formed from the first human settlers on Mars using the hyper gate.

[RRW]

Originally Posted by bakato

1. Disregard for the sake of setting.
2. Disregard for the sake of setting. They had ancient Martian technology. Religious fanaticism. These a-hole lords that are invading look younger than 30 so they were probably raised with a superiority complex. In fact, all the characters are less than 30.

.

1&2. that just lazy excuse. sure you can do whatever you want with the setting but doesnt mean we cannot complain how silly it is. 2 years is simply too fast for settler to suddenly become the empire and decide to go against earth. heck why the hell they chose to become the empire in first place. unleash if somehow Ray Regalia found ancient brainwash machine. I dont see why any settler want to become empire. even dictatorship make more sense.

they can easily fix the timeline by simply expand it so the current year is 2030 instead forcing it to 2014.

is like they try to be realistic but at same time unrealistic which make thing really silly and akward.

actually this anime remind to Valvrave thanks to silliness and "is she dead" debate

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by Solace

2. In the span of less than three decades, humans colonized Mars, learned how to use alien artifacts, developed a superiority complex, and waged war against Earth. It's like the show can't establish a plausible timeline. On one hand this is supposed to have happened very rapidly, yet you have Vers characters speaking of Earth as this mythical ancestral homeland. It's really jarring, even if you accept the hilariously bad premise. At least Iron Sky was tongue in cheek.

This got my head scratching, and then just kind of made me angry... It's so hilariously, horribly implausible, that it kind of ruins the plot. The worst part is it would be so easy to rework the plot a little bit to fix things.

I think it's even worse than what you described. This isn't just a group of colonists that developed a superiority complex. They've seemingly developed a unique culture and national (bordering even on ethnic) identity. Ugh... words can't even describe how annoyingly silly that is in an otherwise interesting first episode.

As for the terrorists, I actually thought they may be implants from the Mars colonists tasked with a false flag operation so they can have pretext to attack. It seemed they weren't too fond of the princess seeking peace, so they get rid of her and get to attack, as they wanted from the start.

Important to note, though, we saw no dead body.

Originally Posted by RRW

1&2. that just lazy excuse. sure you can do whatever you want with the setting but doesnt mean we cannot complain how silly it is. 2 years is simply too fast for settler to suddenly become the empire and decide to go against earth. heck why the hell they chose to become the empire in first place. unleash if somehow Ray Regalia found ancient brainwash machine. I dont see why any settler want to become empire. even dictatorship make more sense.

they can easily fix the timeline by simply expand it so the current year is 2030 instead forcing it to 2014.

Honestly, 2030 still isn't a long enough time for them to be developing the distinct national identity they seem to have. I think 2060 is the earliest, with anytime beyond 2100 being acceptable.

[MeggieMay]

About the 37 Knights and the VERS - I mentioned earlier that I think we have three groups involved here and the more I've read of today's posts make me still think so. How I understood things is that the VERS rule Mars and there are Knight groups still on Mars and only on Mars. Then we have the 37 Knights who were left/stayed/maybe they were left intentionally? after the Moon Gate disaster. They moved onto the large orbiting asteroids that came off the Moon. The teacher mentioned that the 37 Knights do not get along with each other and are wanting to impress VERS back on Mars. [Side note: Those large asteroids would also affect the tides - something to think about as well on that issue]

So here's what I think is going on: The Knights and VERS Mars are two different groups, with group three being whoever is running the show on Earth. The 37 Knights may be seen as allies but I wouldn't be surprised if VERS doesn't want them to come home for some reason (#1 is probably too many Knights already on Mars as it is). Allies doesn't make them one and the same group. The VERS court seems to be extremely classiest and racist and I wouldn't be surprise the simple act of losing/not getting home back when the disaster happened, would be enough to classify the 37 Knights as inferior to those who are back on Mars. That would be one reason the 37 Knights are trying to impress VERS with there attacks, or at least that's what I think the teacher is trying to infer. That said, the 37 Knights may be wanting to take over Earth for their own reasons. Having custody of Earth would give them a base/strength in dealing with VERS, seeing Earth and Mars seem to be the main planets that humans can live on.

Now, the cease fire was probably initiated because everyone was in such disarray after the disaster all sides saw the importance in signing one to give them some time to think about stuff. That happening didn't totally surprise me. However, it does bring up the question of why the 37 Knights didn't attack earlier but maybe waiting is a two fold issue where waiting allowed some of the Knights to find supporters on Earth, while allowing others groups who weren't thinking the same way to just muddy it up when VERS came back and they wanted to make amends and impress the Emperor?

What struck me about Count C. talking to the Knights representative is that Count C was very unhappy the Princess went down but he didn't strike me as he had sent her down intentionally to be killed. However, the Knight Rep seemed very clear that was what they (the 37, or at least his personal Knights group) had planned, though it's not clear if they really instigated the actual events or not. Earlier in the show, it was mentioned there were rising tensions on Earth over the princesses visit. What the teacher was talking with the Doctor about was important. The teacher didn't understand why/how the Earth Federation thought they had a chance when he thought they did not because he had personally seen what VERS could do. If the teacher is 100% correct then I'm not sure why the 37 Knights waited to begin with because taking over the home world before VERS shows up. It would have possibly been more impressive to take over Earth and show it off to the "boss" when they got back. IMO, something else is going on here and my guess is the teacher is missing information and isn't 100% correct on his views.

Personally, I think someone in Earth Federation is cooking up some plan here, workable or non workable, and that might lead to Earth based terrorists being involved. It could be some non allied group of Earthlings who were just upset with Mars and went for it but we may need to toss in the possibility that maybe some of the Knights are working with them and their additional help/tech might make the plan make more sense than the teacher is thinking it would be. The teacher most likely doesn't know/understand the ins/outs of VERS politics and that alone could make his feelings off the mark or on the mark but others thinking they could do something to stop VERS make more sense. We also start to get some potential motives on what is happening here.

I think I still feel that some Terrans involved here, though it's not clear if they are allied with the 37 Knights/VERS/or are just doing this on their own. Even if they are doing it on their own, they may be backed by the Federation, seeing they seem to have some "plan" they are working on (could even be a faction of the Federation?). The attack was well coordinated and thought out and I think the Doctor is involved,as well (I noticed something was going on in that scene with him and the terrorist but I wasn't clear who he was until someone pointed it out earlier). I believe the teacher and he were in the military together at some point (inferred by the flashback? I'm also not sure I didn't read something that left me thinking that). However, the teacher most likely isn't involved in the attack, IMO. He was kind of surprised to see the Doctor but it's possible the Doctor is using him as a cover and knew he might be at that bar drinking.

It also makes a reason for why the princess is most likely alive more likely. The princess living is the one thing no side in this really wants to happen. That's going to throw a wrench into everyone plans (at least everyone we currently know about) if she's not really dead. Alive the attack looks bad and I think her being a pacifist is a problem back home. Dead, that's all fixed. So if she's alive she's really got nowhere to go* and it opens up some plot lines. So there's some of my theories on what is going on here. IMO this show is going to make more sense if she's alive but clearly that's just one persons thoughts on it. Going down this route may not be very original but personally I'm not sure Aldnoah Zero is attempting to be super original here. At this point they seem to be just wanting to do a Mecha series that's not based on preexisting Light Novels or other sources.


*Hisui from The Reverse Thieves podcast (they do these S.W.A.T. reviews of the new shows each season) explained what I was thinking better on why she's probably alive - though I don't know if he'd think much of the rest of my theories. I'm just saying what he said in the podcast about why he thinks the Princess is alive and giving some of his reasons for it, match up to my thoughts . Since listening to the podcast helped me think through things better, I thought I'd mention it here.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Solace

2. In the span of less than three decades, humans colonized Mars, learned how to use alien artifacts, developed a superiority complex, and waged war against Earth. It's like the show can't establish a plausible timeline. On one hand this is supposed to have happened very rapidly, yet you have Vers characters speaking of Earth as this mythical ancestral homeland. It's really jarring, even if you accept the hilariously bad premise. At least Iron Sky was tongue in cheek.

To be honest there are a lot of question marks right from the get go about this setting (especially this one) but I guess I'm willing to give it a bit more leeway if it can make up for it in other ways which I think it has done for now. I think the show has a lot of potential for greatness but there are admittedly some worrying signs.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by RRW

1&2. that just lazy excuse. sure you can do whatever you want with the setting but doesnt mean we cannot complain how silly it is. 2 years is simply too fast for settler to suddenly become the empire and decide to go against earth. heck why the hell they chose to become the empire in first place. unleash if somehow Ray Regalia found ancient brainwash machine. I dont see why any settler want to become empire. even dictatorship make more sense.

they can easily fix the timeline by simply expand it so the current year is 2030 instead forcing it to 2014.

is like they try to be realistic but at same time unrealistic which make thing really silly and akward.

actually this anime remind to Valvrave thanks to silliness and "is she dead" debate

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

This got my head scratching, and then just kind of made me angry... It's so hilariously, horribly implausible, that it kind of ruins the plot. The worst part is it would be so easy to rework the plot a little bit to fix things.

I think it's even worse than what you described. This isn't just a group of colonists that developed a superiority complex. They've seemingly developed a unique culture and ethnic identity. Ugh... words can't even describe how annoyingly silly that is in an otherwise interesting first episode.

As for the terrorists, I actually thought they may be implants from the Mars colonists tasked with a false flag operation so they can have pretext to attack. It seemed they weren't too fond of the princess seeking peace, so they get rid of her and get to attack, as they wanted from the start.

Important to note, though, we saw no dead body.

Honestly, 2030 still isn't a long enough time for them to be developing the distinct ethnic identity they seem to have. I think 2060 is the earliest, with anytime beyond 2100 being acceptable.

20 years is long enough. 5 years max to learn alien technology and 15 years worth of accelerated technological development. With the power of the Aldnoah, they must have realized the incredible advantage they had. Who could resist becoming the founders of their very own space empire? It's not as far-fetched as you'd like to think.

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by bakato

20 years is long enough. 5 years max to learn alien technology and 15 years worth of accelerated technological development. With the power of the Aldnoah, they must have realized the incredible advantage they had. Who could resist becoming the founders of their very own space empire? It's not as far-fetched as you'd like to think.

Nah, that's just not believable. Give me an example of a homogenous cultural identity like we saw here developing on Earth in that time span. It just doesn't happen. I understand the technology changes things, but you're making the argument that 20 years pass and they're referring to themselves as a unique group with a royal family and looking down on others based on their ethnic/national identity? This is a process that takes hundreds of years in normal history. I'll give them a 100 year grace period due to their technology accelerating things, but that's the cutoff of believability.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

Honestly, 2030 still isn't a long enough time for them to be developing the distinct national identity they seem to have. I think 2060 is the earliest, with anytime beyond 2100 being acceptable.

And that's assuming that just on the other side of that hyper-gate, they found a big button that gave Mars 1g gravity, breathable atmosphere, and fertile lands.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Solace

2. In the span of less than three decades, humans colonized Mars, learned how to use alien artifacts, developed a superiority complex, and waged war against Earth. It's like the show can't establish a plausible timeline. On one hand this is supposed to have happened very rapidly, yet you have Vers characters speaking of Earth as this mythical ancestral homeland.

You're right. This is absolutely ridiculous. This timeline factor somehow managed to miss my attention on initial viewing - Perhaps because it's so bad I was mentally blocking it out in order to enjoy the episode as much as possible.

The Vers people talk a bit like the "aliens" in Rinne no Lagrange do. Which would make perfect sense if the timeline at play here was the same as it was in Rinne no Lagrange, but alas, the timeline is radically different.

It's just about unbelievable to think that 30 years would be enough time for Martian settlers to view the humans back home as almost an entirely different species (let alone race). Yes, that definitely strains credibility. I mean, some of these Martian settlers probably have fairly close relatives back on Earth (i.e. 2nd/3rd cousins, grandchildren of brothers/sisters, and so on). The older ones likely grew up on Earth, and so ought to have some attachment to Earth and the humans living there. Facebook alone ought to put a cramp on Vers/Earth hostilities.


Yeah, this is one time where I think Gen is really far off on what he considers believable.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

Nah, that's just not believable. Give me an example of a homogenous cultural identity like we saw here developing on Earth in that time span. It just doesn't happen. I understand the technology changes things, but you're making the argument that 20 years pass and they're referring to themselves as a unique group with a royal family and looking down on others based on their ethnic/national identity? This is a process that takes hundreds of years in normal history. I'll give them a 100 year grace period due to their technology accelerating things, but that's the cutoff of believability.

I present to you our good old friends of the third reich and the 20 years or so between the end of the First World War and the beginning of the second one.

[bigdeath]

Interesting start, thats one way to start a show off with a bang. But why poor New Orleans....You'd think they'd pick a more major city like Washington DC, a Capital. I get the feeling these knights fully expect an easy slaughter and are not taking this war seriously. It makes me think that the Vers Knights are the ones that killed the princess just as an excuse to start a war.

Its amusing that nearly everybody assumes that princess is still alive. I'm kind of hoping shes dead just so the unexpected happens.

[Reckoner]

I don't see anything wrong with the timeline because anything you guys tried to say can be basically be hand waved away with the discovery of alien technology that is far more advanced than our own.

We've seen grand empires form faster than 30 years. Much faster in fact. With alien technology in their hands, I'd imagine you could do pretty impressive things in a short amount of time.

Originally Posted by Dextro

I present to you our good old friends of the third reich and the 20 years or so between the end of the First World War and the beginning of the second one.

...And that would be just one of the most recent . Also remember guys how fast we rebuilt Germany after it basically got destroyed in World War II.

The moon is perhaps a more contentious issue, but it's not like the world map is in tact. America seems destroyed for one thing. There are still many things we have to learn about the setting and their technology.

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by Dextro

I present to you our good old friends of the third reich and the 20 years or so between the end of the First World War and the beginning of the second one.

The Germans first appear in the historical record thousands of years ago. The third reich was just a new ruling class. Not to mention that the anti-semitism they exploited to forward the holocaust had been bubbling under the surface of German culture since the Crusades - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Crusade,_1096 , and earlier.

Originally Posted by Reckoner

I don't see anything wrong with the timeline because anything you guys tried to say can be basically be hand waved away with the discovery of alien technology that is far more advanced than our own.

We've seen grand empires form faster than 30 years. Much faster in fact. With alien technology in their hands, I'd imagine you could do pretty impressive things in a short amount of time.

I have no problem with a small group exploiting advanced technology to form an empire. As Anh_Minh points out, they better have tech that allows extremely rapid terraforming, but let's assume they do. The problem is their seemingly unique culture, national, bordering on ethnic identity (viewing Earthlings as a different race in a time span since the 70's....??? I'm an adult and my parents were teens in the 70's...), and their view of Earth as some "far off, mythical homeland," to paraphrase Solace above.

[MeggieMay]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

You're right. This is absolutely ridiculous. This timeline factor somehow managed to miss my attention on initial viewing - Perhaps because it's so bad I was mentally blocking it out in order to enjoy the episode as much as possible.

Yeah, I just re-read the timeline and there are some big problems there. That said, is it possible that isn't the final version of the timeline or that something got lost in translation? I'm willing to wait and find out if the timeline is totally correct here or not.

Also, who says they have Facebook? This is a timeline that should be quite a bit different than our real world. The cold world ended in 1975, a decade earlier than here, and then they had a influx of advance technology all before 1983 or so. I think Gen and co are thinking that is why this world seems to look similar to ours with the cell phones but they may not be thinking that the internet evolved the same way. Then again, Tiger and Bunny's alt history makes a more sense than some of this, so it's really a cast of taking it with a grain of salt and ignoring the silly . Code Geass alt history makes even less sense to me but plenty of people loved that show (not sure where I ended up on my liking/not liking it), so how these things make/break things seems pretty random, to me.

[RRW]

Originally Posted by bakato

20 years is long enough. 5 years max to learn alien technology and 15 years worth of accelerated technological development. With the power of the Aldnoah, they must have realized the incredible advantage they had. Who could resist becoming the founders of their very own space empire? It's not as far-fetched as you'd like to think.

nope, it only took 5 years for settler to create VERS Empire.

basically it only took 5 years for 340,000 "terran" to suddenly become self proclaim martian and unite themselves to "hate" terran.

the only way it make sense is

1) Ancient conspiracy like I mention before. basically they know ancient mars is exist and already plan ahead.

2) majority of 340,000 people have similar background/ethnicity/believe. got bitter on earth and decide they need place to stay. also power so they dont get treated badly again (think it as jew after ww2)

3) .....I just go ahead with mass effect reaper theory. they created hyper gate. by the time human arrive in mars. they got indoctrinate and make them "martian"

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

I have no problem with a small group exploiting advanced technology to form an empire. As Anh_Minh points out, they better have tech that allows extremely rapid terraforming, but let's assume they do. The problem is their seemingly unique culture, national, bordering on ethnic identity (viewing Earthlings as a different race in a time span since the 70's....??? I'm an adult and my parents were teens in the 70's...), and their view of Earth as some "far off, mythical homeland," to paraphrase Solace above.

The princess is the one who voiced her perception of earth as a mythical homeland. Both she and Slain are not old enough to remember earth. Until recently they were unable to even reach earth as they had to procure enough technology to travel back to earth. So yes, Earth would be a practically mythical place to them as all they know is Mars.

I have no problems with the Martian society feeling like a different race because even in our world we still have petty things like racism. If the color of your skin or your religion is enough to spark such strong feelings I would think a massive war that hurt both populations, scarred the earth permanently, and stranded a huge chunk of Martian citiziens in the earth's orbit would be more than enough reason for such strong rejection of each other's existences.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Dextro

I present to you our good old friends of the third reich and the 20 years or so between the end of the First World War and the beginning of the second one.

What the heck does that have to do with anything? The main problem isn't the tech difference. That much can be explained by alien technology.

The main problem is that 30 years just isn't enough time for people from Earth to feel this distinct from "Terrans" back on Earth.

This would be like if 100 Germans discovered Atlantis, lived there with advanced tech for 30 years (while maintaining some contact with the rest of Earth), and then came back in large numbers with a decision to wipe out "old humanity" (including millions of fellow Germans living in Germany, some of which are not that far off on their personal family tree).

That's insane. I'm sorry, but that's honestly insane. The only way this works at all is if you assume that just about every single person who went to Mars is a complete and utter psychopath/sociopath.

Originally Posted by MeggieMay

Yeah, I just re-read the timeline and there are some big problems there. That said, is it possible that isn't the final version of the timeline or that something got lost in translation? I'm willing to wait and find out if the timeline is totally correct here or not.

Also, who says they have Facebook?

Why wouldn't they? There's no particular reason to think they wouldn't have Facebook given everything else they clearly have.

Besides, with or without Facebook, the general idea remains the same (Facebook is simply some of the evidence thereof). People tend to care about old friends and family members. I don't see moving to Mars completely eradicating that in only 30 years. I'm with ChainLegacy's idea of a much more sensible timeline.

Originally Posted by Reckoner

I have no problems with the Martian society feeling like a different race because even in our world we still have petty things like racism. If the color of your skin or your religion is enough to spark such strong feelings I would think a massive war that hurt both populations, scarred the earth permanently, and stranded a huge chunk of Martian citiziens in the earth's orbit would be more than enough reason for such strong rejection of each other's existences.

Do you think one of America's first few Presidents would have felt comfortable launching a brutal land invasion of England, massacring countless English people, with the Americans thinking of the English as people radically different from their pioneering selves? Speaking personally, I find the idea utterly preposterous, and it's not far off from what we're seeing here when you consider what a big deal the discovery of the Americas was historically.

So I think your main argument is pretty far off the mark.