(L+CR) Goblin Slayer

[Kafriel]

Let's just agree that while it heavily relies on a D&D theme, it cannot be directly set as that kind of adventure. Even if ultimately there are actual people playing this world, our perspective is that of the main party, to whom it is a regular world - and should be considered such. The only part that bothers me is how often the characters refer to dice rolls, albeit in a metaphorical sense.

[Twi]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

You can justify only a portion of the irregular parts of the series setting, but certainly not everything else, especially when things like protection are blatantly described by the LN as something that is not relying on the character stats. For instance, every single time Priestess casts a miracle, the LN always describes it as a prayer that reaches the heaven and makes her soul "join" with the goddess, and the latter then grants the miracle. This is the reason why Priestess didn't understand why minor heal didn't save Wizard in episode 1 (the anime skipped the fact the wound was perfectly healed) because that miracle is still a divine intervention. Fundamentally, spells and miracles are not considered the same in GSverse, and miracles are not considered as the "act" of the cleric, but rather the response of the relevant god after hearing their follower's plea.

Even then, Hero Girl still is extremely unlikely because not only the number of firebolts is more than insane, but she naturally can wield a holy sword and plate armor. All of this when she merely started. Even the most leniant DM wouldn't ever do that, and the way how the "board" works is also impractical when 1) some characters are not controlled and don't have any saving throw 2) when several persons have to manage different parts of the board (there isn't 1 single god acting as the DM.)Nope. The Manga and LN specifically state GS crushed a snake and put the scraps and pepper in an eggshell which in turn serves as the pepper bomb.

Which is also why Priestess could rival the Ogre with two Protections. That monster is something a Team of Silver-Rankers (I mean real powerhouses) would struggle against. She had only been an active adventurer for a month or two at best, and she only had that spell for less than that amount of time.

Shamans like our resident Dwarf calls on spirits to use various magics. His magic is reliant on his relationship with them on a racial level, which is why he uses Gnomes/Earth spells the most.


Wizards we know have to study magic and use words of power. They aren't reliant on an external force, but it's still not easy.

[Znail]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

You can justify only a portion of the irregular parts of the series setting, but certainly not everything else, especially when things like protection are blatantly described by the LN as something that is not relying on the character stats.

Everything you talk about can be explained as part of this specific "game world" as not all D&D worlds works the same. GS is closer to the basic D&D then any official D&D novels I have read and I have read a lot of them.

[Skaddix]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

You can justify only a portion of the irregular parts of the series setting, but certainly not everything else, especially when things like protection are blatantly described by the LN as something that is not relying on the character stats. For instance, every single time Priestess casts a miracle, the LN always describes it as a prayer that reaches the heaven and makes her soul "join" with the goddess, and the latter then grants the miracle. This is the reason why Priestess didn't understand why minor heal didn't save Wizard in episode 1 (the anime skipped the fact the wound was perfectly healed) because that miracle is still a divine intervention. Fundamentally, spells and miracles are not considered the same in GSverse, and miracles are not considered as the "act" of the cleric, but rather the response of the relevant god after hearing their follower's plea.

Even then, Hero Girl still is extremely unlikely because not only the number of firebolts is more than insane, but she naturally can wield a holy sword and plate armor. All of this when she merely started. Even the most leniant DM wouldn't ever do that, and the way how the "board" works is also impractical when 1) some characters are not controlled and don't have any saving throw 2) when several persons have to manage different parts of the board (there isn't 1 single god acting as the DM.)Nope. The Manga and LN specifically state GS crushed a snake and put the scraps and pepper in an eggshell which in turn serves as the pepper bomb.

Miracles just seem a different way to name Divine Magic to me. And that is basically how it works in DnD the relevant God or Goddess grants the spells to the follower every morning or night depending on Race/Alignment. I suppose said deity don't usually sign off every cast by Raw but that sounds more flavor.


Again depending on your specific class, starting racial abilities and feats it would be doable to be able to cast magic, wield a sword and wear plate armor.

Is DnD a perfect framework maybe not but it works well enough.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Maoyuu's naming theme was actually nothing spécial to me since a french audioplay used it back in 2001, and even french Dragon Magazine used it in a comic.

And it feels even worse when used in GS for me. It's like the story wanted to be novel and special by abandoning names but the end result is just annoying coz the story isn't special enough. This is a constructive criticism for the anime from me: the show will be better off using normal names. The show can keep calling Goblin Slayer that, but other characters are better off if they have real names. Would be less awkward for the story.

[Anh_Minh]

Personally, I barely feel the absence of names. In series where characters do have names, I often find it a pain to remember what they are aside from the MC and a small handful of others.

[kukuru]

DnD is flexible enough, and specifically every book mentions for DMs to be creative, and only use the rules as a guide, and as a reference rather then authority, but then games that becomes unfair on both sides quickly lose steam, and the usual "table flip" happens.

GS is squarely on a DnD, and may even be quasi DnD session. Or a variant of DnD for japanese variants.

Trying to dispute GS isn't DnD is disputing every reference, every interview, every sentence of the GS that has been given to us.

For all purposes, everything in GS can and should be explained via DnD and the GMs/Player establish rules. (like you can block spells, make up fake spells/skills/etc, and the different books only help players in that section as a guidance).

This is pushed through the novels extremely and is intentionally as it is squarely a theme of how cruel GS is and how the Gods work their way into the GS world.

In fact you can say GS makes it a point to almost always be able to parallel a DnD session in it's totality, and even humor us the readers/watchers the DnD shenanigans that goes on in the sessions.

When the girls go "No poison, no fire, no flooding." It's a cue on the DM telling the players, that you can't do that again.

Basically we're watching a highly scripted and dramatic DnD session, and the author want's us to know that. To say the otherwise is almost not Goblin Slayer.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

And it feels even worse when used in GS for me. It's like the story wanted to be novel and special by abandoning names but the end result is just annoying coz the story isn't special enough. This is a constructive criticism for the anime from me: the show will be better off using normal names. The show can keep calling Goblin Slayer that, but other characters are better off if they have real names. Would be less awkward for the story.

I think if anything it's the opposite. It's not trying to be special; it's deliberately avoiding any kind of ambition and making it clear that these are one dimensional characters. Names would be giving them unnecessary substance as individuals, when what the author really wants is to just define them clearly as standard tropes.

It's like the beginning of Deadpool when Francis is introduced as "the British villain" only its not a joke.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by kukuru

DnD is flexible enough, and specifically every book mentions for DMs to be creative, and only use the rules as a guide, and as a reference rather then authority, but then games that becomes unfair on both sides quickly lose steam, and the usual "table flip" happens.

Creativity doesn't mean you can disregard rules just like that. Variants of D&D hardly allow the presence of characters that aren't controlled by -anyone-, and the fact certain characters have abilities that aren't bounded by "game mechanics" implies there is some narrative context, and not just plain game mechanics. If you believe everything in GS can be explained by d&d stuff, then you can do that to virtually every single fantasy stuff.

Trying to dispute GS isn't DnD is disputing every reference, every interview, every sentence of the GS that has been given to us.

There are a lot of sentences in the narrative that doesn't make any sense with d&d in general, and how genre savvy the series can be. Furthermore, you CAN have a narrative that takes roots from a genre, without being a complete carbon copy of it. Otherwise, you are implying that every single isekai stuff are "actual video games" even though they blatantly borrow references to JRPG, but still don't work that way (Log Horizon, Overlord, etc use toncrap of JRPG and MMO jargon, but the characters are not trapped in a game, contrary to SAO).

When the girls go "No poison, no fire, no flooding." It's a cue on the DM telling the players, that you can't do that again.

Spoiler for details from LN:

The narration is very explicit that no god control any of GS party member, even Truth and Abundance who are treated as the "DM" of the series. Speaking of which, Truth never called out Illusion for using an extremely overpowered character to defeat demons left and right, but for some reason, he would forbid the aforementioned methods to a character that isn't controlled by anyone? That doesn't make any sense, moreso that the story pretty much pointed out that Priestess doesn't want fire because of what happened before, and HEA wants her own definition of adventure. Meanwhile, the dwarf made a very sensible argument why using tunnel in the sewers was a very bad idea. Those were objections from the characters, not from any DM.

Kafriel was spot on regarding my perspective: GS settings and narrative structure take roots in d&d and its variants, just like how other series from different genre borrow many elements of their respective genre. However, regarding the characters themselves, you just can't expect that all d&d rules should be applied, as if the story was binded by a DM leading it. The LN made it very clear that the story is actually decided by the adventurers and the gods are watching them, not controlling them.
That's the very reason why I disagreed with the assessment that "a tank should work because that's viable in d&d", because, from a narrative perspective, the story pretty much implied that wouldn't have worked against the ogre.

And if you really insist we should look at this situation from a game perspective, then, your assumption a tank was needed doesn't work either. Assuming the lore is decided by the DM, then that means in the "GS d&d", ogres physical attack cannot be properly blocked by a regular adventurer (up to silver) and your assumption de facto allows it because "it should be the DM creativity at work" and you used that argument to justify how a regular ogre could use a fireball of that size even though this isn't something you would expect from a standard d&d. So unless GS party has a gold or platinum adventurer with the appropriate skill and shield, it is unlikely it would have changed anything if we consider the narration describing the ogres in general, not just that one.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Personally, I barely feel the absence of names. In series where characters do have names, I often find it a pain to remember what they are aside from the MC and a small handful of others.

Originally Posted by Haak

I think if anything it's the opposite. It's not trying to be special; it's deliberately avoiding any kind of ambition and making it clear that these are one dimensional characters. Names would be giving them unnecessary substance as individuals, when what the author really wants is to just define them clearly as standard tropes.

It's like the beginning of Deadpool when Francis is introduced as "the British villain" only its not a joke.

I don't know, guys. From a storytelling aesthetics, it's kinda awkward. For example, so far into the anime, we already have two witches with speaking roles, two porcelain-swordsmen with speaking roles, two girls who work on the guild receptionist desk with the similar uniform, etc. Calling them only based on their jobs & stats without real names is kinda iffy in-story.

Also, Haak, abandoning real names altogether is a sign that the writer wanted the story to stand out from the rest of the industry. If he really wanted to avoid ambition, giving the characters only simple 2 or 3-syllable names will do a better job because names, by itself, is something standard since everyone has them. Names are not special. At least that's my take on it.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Also, Haak, abandoning real names altogether is a sign that the writer wanted the story to stand out from the rest of the industry. If he really wanted to avoid ambition, giving the characters only simple 2 or 3-syllable names will do a better job because names, by itself, is something standard since everyone has them. Names are not special. At least that's my take on it.

Not in this case. Originally, the characters weren't named when the story was a WN because it had contribution of other tabletop amateurs. Then, when Kagyu wrote the LN, he considered names for every character, but he just couldn't be satisfied with what he came up with. In the end, he left that to the imagination of the audience. But he also mentions how GS isn't a proper name, so if he is called by a moniker, might as well do the same for the other characters with their class title instead.

If anything, Kagyu never intended GS to be a "grand story". Just something that follows the antics of a weirdo who acts as your local vigilante instead usual stories following bigger narrative figures like superman.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Not in this case. Originally, the characters weren't named when the story was a WN because it had contribution of other tabletop amateurs. Then, when Kagyu wrote the LN, he considered names for every character, but he just couldn't be satisfied with what he came up with.

Which is contrary to what Haak said about abandoning ambition. If the writer wanted to "abandon ambition" he could've just given them mediocre 2-3 syllable names IMO.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

If anything, Kagyu never intended GS to be a "grand story". Just something that follows the antics of a weirdo who acts as your local vigilante instead usual stories following bigger narrative figures like superman.

He might not intended GS to be a grand story, but he surely wanted his story to stand out from the crowds in the industry, which was my point.

[Dark Wing]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't there another anime adaptated from a light novel called Maoyuu Maou Yuusha (great story btw) where the characters had simple names like Yuusha and Maou?

I don't think it was a big deal then so why is it now with this series?

[Jazzrat]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't there another anime adaptated from a light novel called Maoyuu Maou Yuusha (great story btw) where the characters had simple names like Yuusha and Maou?

I don't think it was a big deal then so why is it now with this series?

Because nearly everyone is watching it
I don't find it that big of a deal either, their title became their name for me subconsciously after awhile.

Considering the JP LN is up to volume 8, i'm guessing it's not a problem for most of it's readers as well.

[xeviouses]

Meh, it's just names, not really worth arguing about.

[scififan]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't there another anime adaptated from a light novel called Maoyuu Maou Yuusha (great story btw) where the characters had simple names like Yuusha and Maou?

I don't think it was a big deal then so why is it now with this series?

OK.
You didn't get the history right.
Mamare Touno first posted random dialogues on 2Channel's Breaking News VIP board, and the title was: "Maou: Become mine, hero. Yuusha: Deny!"
This kind of writing is called Improvisation. As Goblin Slayer, the writing was created by amateurs for amateurs. The writing was not created for consumer market.
Later, the writer re-compiled these creative writing pieces and published the novel.

He only became serious as the writer when he submitted his work Log Horizon to the website, Shōsetsuka ni Narō. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sh%C5%...a_ni_Nar%C5%8D

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Sheba

And apparently a naming theme have become a chip on someone's shoulder. Straws, grasping, etc.. I dunno man, you dont like GS, just move the fck on. You dont see me yelling at Harry Potter fans and shouting at them to read Ursula Le Guin's "Earthsea" books.

No but you are yelling at people for discussing things on a discussion forum. XP

[Skaddix]

Originally Posted by Sheba

...

Lol that is a throwback do you remember the horrible tv show for the Earthsea Series, I should reread that series though its been years.

Anyway the point of name is to tell characters apart at the base level. Goblin Slayer is distinct while not being a real name it comes across as a nickname or call sign really. For our lead its descriptive. Same for say Sword Maiden.

Even something like Cow Girl works sense we are not likely to talk to another Cow Girl in the series.


However Priestess, Guild Girl, Swordsman, etc are worthless cause they are not distinct enough to be useful and will encounter other characters with similar jobs or roles to them in the story.

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by Skaddix

However Priestess, Guild Girl, Swordsman, etc are worthless cause they are not distinct enough to be useful and will encounter other characters with similar jobs or roles to them in the story.

Rather than not distinct enough, its because the stories already showing there are multiple Priestess, Guild Girl, etc. (those under common job). Unlike Maoyuu where the writer make it certain to each 'title holder'.

Not actually big thing if you consider this kind conversation can happened:

"Where's the usual Guild Girl?"
"She's out, I'm the one working when she's out."
"Oh okay, so Another Guild Girl, where is the goblin quest?"



That does make me wonder, if people called Sword Maiden as Priestess before she rose into top rank.

"Hi Pri-- oh, sorry, you're a Sword Maiden now, long time no see."

[Klashikari]

This isn't going to fix that issue, but for those who are wondering, characters of the same class / occupations have different names.
-The receptionnist who exposed the Rhea scout lie is an "Inspector", refering to her position as an inspector of the God of Law.
-The other priestess tagging along with the warrior is officially called "Apprentice Priestess" alhough Yen Press translator didn't do so well, because in Japanese, her class is supposed to be "saint".

Of course, it is a narrative contrivance and the story has every character with specific combination of class and qualification (Beginner / Rookie / Apprentice + Cleric for instance) and the author probably avoided characters with overlapping class to lessen that issue (to a certain extent).
In the plot, all characters do have proper names, but obviously, they don't reveal that and characters naturally refer to each other with their occupation which still makes sense "in the plot", but is a bother to a certain extent for the audience.