(L+CR) Nobunaga: The Fool

[Thess]

Originally Posted by PreSage

This series reminds me of Escaflowne...future mecha combined with samurai era. Girl and guy from 2 different worlds, girl has visions of guy whom she will later choose as hero to save world and girl is the deliverer of the hero's mecha. Whoa...even Jeanne's necklace somewhat resembles Hitomi's tear-shaped necklace.

The real name of the show is Fate/The Vision of Aquarion.

[BW95]

Originally Posted by Thess

You must be confused. Nobunaga never saw Jeanne, the one who burned, he saw Jeanne Kaguya briefly, realizing that they can meet again in a world after this one. Likewise, when the future Nobunaga went to aid Jeanne Kaguya, he saw Ranmaru.

Oda Nobunaga never saw Jeanne D'Arc the original. He never dreamed about her, he only loved and promised himself to the next world to his lover, Ranmaru.

No that was just a typo. I meant that he just saw her. Sleep deprived.

[Wandering Soul]

Originally Posted by GDB

Not sure if this show is brilliant or god awful. Quite an odd line to be toting.

I'm still trying to figure out whether or not this show is really going to take itself seriously or not. But so far it is really interesting and has potential.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by BW95

No that was just a typo. I meant that he just saw her. Sleep deprived.

That's what I meant. Oda Nobunaga only saw Ranmaru and Jeanne Kaguya when facing them, never the historical Jeanne D'Arc. He never met or dreamed about her.

Jeanne (past and present) has visions of him or dreams of him but only when she's Ranmaru. Oda wasn't talking to Jeanne, he was talking to Ranmaru.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Wow, this is such an unusual historical crack-pairing . What’s next? Guinevere x Yoshitsune?

Anyway, this anime looks like over-the-top fun, and my first impression of the characters are quite good. Will continue watching .

[NoemiChan]

I really liked it a lot!!!

The title is misleading but the plot ain't really stupid at all. The blooming romance at the end is making this anime one of my favorites this season!^^

[Ougon]

Definitely hooked up. Next episode was titled "Lovers", I can't wait to see how its connected to the next episode.

[Dash_Hunter]

I was already interested in watching this because of the mecha designs and the premise but now I'm even more interested, it was a good first episode imo so of course I'll keep watching, I just hope we can get some awesome battles.

Originally Posted by Thess

That's what I meant. Oda Nobunaga only saw Ranmaru and Jeanne Kaguya when facing them, never the historical Jeanne D'Arc. He never met or dreamed about her.

Jeanne (past and present) has visions of him or dreams of him but only when she's Ranmaru. Oda wasn't talking to Jeanne, he was talking to Ranmaru.

It was confusing but in summary:
Jeanne Kaguya had a dream about her being the real Jeanne D'Arc (a memory of a past life) and when she was about to die she saw Space Nobunaga talking to her but calling her Ranmaru.
Then Space Nobunaga had a dream of him being older and being betrayed by Mitsuhide and saw Jeanne Kaguya in Ranmaru.

It implies that Jeanne D'Arc died, then she reincarnated as Ranmaru and then reincarnates again as Jeanne Kaguya, and apparently both characters have had these recurring dreams for some time in which they see eachother present versions.

Oh and I found this image comparing real Jeanne D'Arc and Ranmaru

Images

And they really look alike

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Dash_Hunter

It was confusing but in summary:
Jeanne Kaguya had a dream about her being the real Jeanne D'Arc (a memory of a past life) and when she was about to die she saw Space Nobunaga talking to her but calling her Ranmaru.
Then Space Nobunaga had a dream of him being older and being betrayed by Mitsuhide and saw Jeanne Kaguya in Ranmaru.

It implies that Jeanne D'Arc died, then she reincarnated as Ranmaru and then reincarnates again as Jeanne Kaguya, and apparently both characters have had these recurring dreams for some time in which they see eachother present versions.

Oh and I found this image comparing real Jeanne D'Arc and Ranmaru

Images

And they really look alike

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Present Oda also saw Ranmaru when he found the present Jeanne (for our sanity's sake let's called her Kaguya).

But yeah, I also think Jeanne reincarnated as Ranmaru. They sounded the same too. Unfortunately the third reincarnation looks like a blonde Mikono without any of those maturity traits they had. But I'm holding my judgment for the time being.

[Esclair]

How many episodes is this supposed to be? I feel like they've introduced WAAAY too many characters in the first episode for this to be a 12 episode series.

[Shikijin]

Originally Posted by PreSage

even Jeanne's necklace somewhat resembles Hitomi's tear-shaped necklace.

That necklace is possibly the reason why Jeanne had to have a Japanese middle name.

[Aqua Knight]

That was crazy albeit very cool!

[zztop]

In tarot fortune-telling, the Star represents hope and inspiration.
Just as Nobunaga hopes and inspires to change the wars of the Eastern Star.

The Lovers,for next week, represent partnerships and duality.
So we can expect these themes to be prevalent in the ep.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Cloudedmind

Heck, I know plenty of westerners who wouldn't know who Charlemagne was. Is that a kind of drink?!

Which is pretty sad. "Father of Europe", Carolingian Renaissance and everything. :/ Not to mention that the man's life could be the subject of an anime of its own and there wouldn't even be need of much over-dramatization... (But I still wish someone would make an anime adaptation of the Völsunga saga. Deities! Incest! Dragons! Valkyries! Curses! Glory! Betrayal! More betrayal! Death and destruction! Gudrun making Attila the Hun eat their children! aww yes.)

Originally Posted by Cloudedmind

But yes, the west has just as many historical and badass characters as the east, but most and their deeds would likely be unknown to the average Japanese viewer.

Mind, it's not like the average Japanese is particularly well-versed in the Sengoku era. Yes, the big name guys are well-known - the three unifiers, Takeda Shingen, Uesugi Kenshin, Naoe Kanetsugu, Date Masamune, Sanada Yukimura, and so on. But the rest is pretty much the domain of history nerds and people who watch/read too much TV/manga.

Originally Posted by Thess

The real name of the show is Fate/The Vision of Aquarion.

Ichimannen to nisennen mae kara AAIISHIITERUUUUUUU~

[Sheba]

Oh, Charlemagne is well known in France. As "that crazy old geezer who invented school". It's just that in the rest of the world he is eclipsed by Arthur in fame.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Cloudedmind

You know if Japanese history classes are anything like many American history classes I can see why the Western star is a mesh mash of historical figures and the Eastern star is more concise. Often time history classes are more focused on their own countries history and most other things are secondary. Even in a World History class you just get a little bit of everything. So I can imagine that the Japanese audience (the intended audience) may only have a small understanding of Western history. So they may know of characters like Jeanne, and Magellan, and da Vinci, but may not know or understand their true significance to history. So the Japanese audience isn't likely to be none the wiser or particularly care that they've all gotten thrown together.

Yeah, I'm not sure if just Western countries do that, in terms of only concentrating on their own nation's history, and only doing other nation's history as supplementary or when it comes in entwines with their nation's own. In fact, I will tell you that neither my high school nor the university I'm at now, had any classes on Japanese history, only on our interactions with them during WW2. World history expounded a little and told Japan's interactions with China during the same time, but that was about it. In fact, I've learned a lot more from reading manga and watching anime about Japanese history than I ever did in class. And by the same token, I learned more about European history from novels and TV and independent reading than I ever did in any class other than my French culture class I took for my minor.

I don't know if other nations are the same in their teaching of history, but if so, I can see why the Western figures are a bit of mish-mash mess, when all of the Japanese ones pretty much go together.

Originally Posted by Thess

You must be confused. Nobunaga never saw Jeanne, the one who burned, he saw Jeanne Kaguya briefly, realizing that they can meet again in a world after this one. Likewise, when the future Nobunaga went to aid Jeanne Kaguya, he saw Ranmaru.

Oda Nobunaga never saw Jeanne D'Arc the original. He never dreamed about her, he only loved and promised himself to the next world to his lover, Ranmaru.

I really hope they address that reincarnation bit better. I didn't even know it WAS reincarnation until reading this thread, I just thought it was some weird vision. In fact, I didn't understand that whole beginning scene in the beginning when I first saw it. I didn't even know that the older guy in the burning castle even was Nobunaga since they didn't really show his face and like I said before, I had no idea who Ranmaru was.

I'm a little confused as to if Jeanne reincarnated as Ranmaru, how would historical Nobunaga recognize her as Jeanne Kaguya, when Jean Kaguya would have be reincarnated after Ranmaru? Or am I getting the pathway confused? Isn't it Jeanne D'Arc-->Ranmaru-->Jeanne Kaguya?

How did Nobunaga recognize Jeanne Kaguya in Ranmaru when he's never met her before? He's never met her or Jeanne D'Arc before? And if he just took it as a sign that Ranmaru was going to be reincarnated, I think he would find it weird that he be reincarnated as a blond European woman? And how would that tell him exactly that the two would meet again? It's a lot to interpret from one 5 second scene.

And as others have said putting Jeanne D'Arc and Oda Nobunaga together is a pretty crack parring as it is. It's like watching one of those epic rap battles of history. We'll have to see how that shapes up between the two of them.

[MrTerrorist]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Oh, Charlemagne is well known in France. As "that crazy old geezer who invented school". It's just that in the rest of the world he is eclipsed by Arthur in fame.

I know who Charlemagne is thanks to Eternal Darkness and his descendant.

YouTube

https://youtu.be/cvKRbi2ovDY

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Cloudedmind]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Which is pretty sad. "Father of Europe", Carolingian Renaissance and everything. :/ Not to mention that the man's life could be the subject of an anime of its own and there wouldn't even be need of much over-dramatization... (But I still wish someone would make an anime adaptation of the Völsunga saga. Deities! Incest! Dragons! Valkyries! Curses! Glory! Betrayal! More betrayal! Death and destruction! Gudrun making Attila the Hun eat their children! aww yes.)

This reminds me that I really wish I could have gotten around to seeing Richard Wagner's The Ring Cycle when the plays were showing here about a year ago. Still kind of miffed at myself for not at least seeing one, even though they really should be seen together.

Mind, it's not like the average Japanese is particularly well-versed in the Sengoku era. Yes, the big name guys are well-known - the three unifiers, Takeda Shingen, Uesugi Kenshin, Naoe Kanetsugu, Date Masamune, Sanada Yukimura, and so on. But the rest is pretty much the domain of history nerds and people who watch/read too much TV/manga.

Haha, I guess that's no different then here and time periods like the Wild West. People may recognize names like Billy the Kid and Doc Holliday, but that's probably about it.

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Yeah, I'm not sure if just Western countries do that, in terms of only concentrating on their own nation's history, and only doing other nation's history as supplementary or when it comes in entwines with their nation's own. In fact, I will tell you that neither my high school nor the university I'm at now, had any classes on Japanese history, only on our interactions with them during WW2. World history expounded a little and told Japan's interactions with China during the same time, but that was about it. In fact, I've learned a lot more from reading manga and watching anime about Japanese history than I ever did in class. And by the same token, I learned more about European history from novels and TV and independent reading than I ever did in any class other than my French culture class I took for my minor.

I don't know if other nations are the same in their teaching of history, but if so, I can see why the Western figures are a bit of mish-mash mess, when all of the Japanese ones pretty much go together.

Yeah, that's pretty much how it was in my high school and college as well. I think the college I went to may have had a few history classes for specific areas of study, but I think it was probably just things like Chicano studies/history, African/African American history etc.

I really hope they address that reincarnation bit better. I didn't even know it WAS reincarnation until reading this thread, I just thought it was some weird vision. In fact, I didn't understand that whole beginning scene in the beginning when I first saw it. I didn't even know that the older guy in the burning castle even was Nobunaga since they didn't really show his face and like I said before, I had no idea who Ranmaru was.

I'm a little confused as to if Jeanne reincarnated as Ranmaru, how would historical Nobunaga recognize her as Jeanne Kaguya, when Jean Kaguya would have be reincarnated after Ranmaru? Or am I getting the pathway confused? Isn't it Jeanne D'Arc-->Ranmaru-->Jeanne Kaguya?

How did Nobunaga recognize Jeanne Kaguya in Ranmaru when he's never met her before? He's never met her or Jeanne D'Arc before? And if he just took it as a sign that Ranmaru was going to be reincarnated, I think he would find it weird that he be reincarnated as a blond European woman? And how would that tell him exactly that the two would meet again? It's a lot to interpret from one 5 second scene.

And as others have said putting Jeanne D'Arc and Oda Nobunaga together is a pretty crack parring as it is. It's like watching one of those epic rap battles of history. We'll have to see how that shapes up between the two of them.

I was a bit confused on that as well. In some instances I wasn't sure whom was having visions of whom, but after reading through this thread it's a bit more clear. I should probably re-watch the episode though.

On another note my brother and I totally love those epic rap battles of history videos. My favorite is still Skrillex vs. Beethoven.

Discussions like this make me want to crack open a history book.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Yeah, I'm not sure if just Western countries do that, in terms of only concentrating on their own nation's history, and only doing other nation's history as supplementary or when it comes in entwines with their nation's own.

Maybe I was just lucky but I received a pretty thorough education re: Western history... But I guess if you're from a mostly unimportant country like mine you have to really see and understand the great picture to understand why things are happening at home. I mean, that is always very important, but even more so when most of the time you're just kind of swept along with history instead of making it.

Originally Posted by Cloudedmind

Haha, I guess that's no different then here and time periods like the Wild West. People may recognize names like Billy the Kid and Doc Holliday, but that's probably about it.

Pretty much, yeah. I mean, of course they learn about it in school, but it's not like everyone pays attention in history classes. In my experience it's kind of like "huh, Mouri Motonari, that sounds familiar, who was he again... oh yes, the guy who said that thing about three arrows breaking less easily than one or something." (Well, either that, or "yes, the okra guy from Sengoku Basara who is rivals with the pirate Chousokabe Motochika, I saw mountains of doujinshi at Comiket!" XDDD)

[larethian]

Well I don't know about you guys, but this got me when Takeda's army started riding MSes.

As for history, I learned much of them from games, especially Koei ones. More precisely, they made me go read things up. XD