(L+CR) Nobunaga: The Fool

[karice67]

Originally Posted by jfs90

Im not bragging, but rather just rub it in since the guy made a fool of my japanese earlier, so i have to make a point.. (also jlpt n2 is the level where im qualified to read newspaper and books so that was the only point im trying to make..).. the guy claimed she was waiting for a 'group of people' to return when the song clearly uses anata (your return) あなたの帰りを.. what can i say.

*snip*

I do agree that the 大切な人 in the final stanza is probably the same as the person in the second verse. But like Thess, I am not so sure that the song is talking about different people. Although I think that Caesar is more honest than Mitsu, what Thess said about Mitsu in episode 13 rung true when I re watched it. Though Ichihime's concern for Caesar gives a lot of food for thought (and wishful thinking on my part). So I personally won't say any more about that until that plot line is over.

But whether you are right about the interpretation of the song or not, on balance from my perspective, your explanations of the language have been less accurate than Thess's. And in my experience, newspapers are easier to understand because there's little room for interpretation. Songs are different. So, to be very frank, I don't think JLPT N2 means much in this context. (And I'm speaking as someone who has passed it.)


(P.s. 遠ざかる can simply mean "going away." I was just trying to be creative, and 'drifting away' may actually be the wrong phrase to use.)

[JKW47]

Originally Posted by karice67

I do agree that the 大切な人 in the final stanza is probably the same as the person in the second verse. But like Thess, I am not so sure that the song is talking about different people. Although I think that Caesar is more honest than Mitsu, what Thess said about Mitsu in episode 13 rung true when I re watched it. Though Ichihime's concern for Caesar gives a lot of food for thought (and wishful thinking on my part). So I personally won't say any more about that until that plot line is over.

But whether you are right about the interpretation of the song or not, on balance from my perspective, your explanations of the language have been less accurate than Thess's. And in my experience, newspapers are easier to understand because there's little room for interpretation. Songs are different. So, to be very frank, I don't think JLPT N2 means much in this context. (And I'm speaking as someone who has passed it.)


(P.s. 遠ざかる can simply mean "going away." I was just trying to be creative, and 'drifting away' may actually be the wrong phrase to use.)

I hope its caesar too ! they are really awesome together! i hope my sister is right !

[jfs90]

Originally Posted by karice67

I do agree that the 大切な人 in the final stanza is probably the same as the person in the second verse. But like Thess, I am not so sure that the song is talking about different people. Although I think that Caesar is more honest than Mitsu, what Thess said about Mitsu in episode 13 rung true when I re watched it. Though Ichihime's concern for Caesar gives a lot of food for thought (and wishful thinking on my part). So I personally won't say any more about that until that plot line is over.

But whether you are right about the interpretation of the song or not, on balance from my perspective, your explanations of the language have been less accurate than Thess's. And in my experience, newspapers are easier to understand because there's little room for interpretation. Songs are different. So, to be very frank, I don't think JLPT N2 means much in this context. (And I'm speaking as someone who has passed it.)


(P.s. 遠ざかる can simply mean "going away." I was just trying to be creative, and 'drifting away' may actually be the wrong phrase to use.)

Spoiler for Wall:

Im sorry i cant take the guy seriously after he said she was waiting for a group of people to return when the song clearly uses 告げるためずっと待ちましょう、あなたの帰りを aka, i will wait for YOUR return, (anata no) aka singular, so yeah... and if the next couple of episodes prove im right, it will also mean my explanation is right.. let that be the judge

And as for my original translation of the song, it was obviously rushed, i was trying to give a general idea (that the song is 2 different people) not give a verbal line by line breakdown of the entire thing.. so as you put it, i was 'being creative'

And as someone who also passed N2, when native japanese people says so, i believe them, you can find people agreeing that the song refers to caesar, but NONE that denies its not, but you have to look at the 2ch threads to see it, look it up i guess, there are quite a few more out there... let me know if you find one that insists the song is all about mitsu...these guys speak japanese everyday and will know exactly what the song is referring to, and if they think it refers to 2 people, why should a mere N2 like me disagree with them?

Wanting to watch the figure that is changing is another obvious reference.. caesar is the only one who has changed for the better as the story progresses, while Mitsu steadily falls deeper and deeper into the darkness and last episode even wants nobu to NOT return so he can be lolsaviorking... (whose changing figure out of the two will she be more likely to 'want to watch'?)..

So the guy who is honest (caesar confesses his love and praises her beauty openly, contrast mitsu never confessed his feelings and hides the truth about her brother) and who she wants to see the figure change (caesar changes out of love for her, its even highlighted during the fight with cesare (when did you become so compassionate? and did you get a new religion or something?) while mitsu's change.. rewatch last ep) .. honestly, who do you think fits the description more?

Once again, character songs are meant to tie-in at certain points in the story.. the release of the songs are timed strategically.. and releasing a song referencing her worrying for YOUR RETURN, a few days after Mitsu and her finally reunites +her clearly worrying for caesar is not a coincidence, if the song is released before ep 18, i would still think its caesar. but it will be less clear, but after ep 18, judging by the timing of the release of the song (right AFTER ep 18), it can ONLY be caesar.. (after 18, he is the only one that has not returned) thats what convinced me.. its not reading too much, its how the guys who market the products work with other animes and stuff..

also if you agree that the taisetsu na hito is referring to the guy in the second part (FYI the other guy claimed the taisetsu na hito refers to a GROUP of important people so yeah basically you are saying he is wrong so you are contradicting yourself), then explain to me why the previous line clearly says 'Though the lingering scent of the far-off days will never be forgotten, BUT now i have an important person'.... how does this sentence even BEGIN to make sense UNLESS the song is referring to 2 different people? (the lingering scent is an obvious reference to the first guy who she describes as no matter the sins, her feelings will still be flowerish or whatever)

Which makes more sense?

1-Although i will never forget the scent of whatever (mitsu), but now i have someone important (mitsu)

OR

2-Although i will never forget the scent of whatever (mitsu), but now i have someone important (caesar)

Only way for it to be idiomatically and logically sensible is by referring to 2 different people, if you claim to have at least N2 or more in japanese, there is NO WAY you should miss this

heres how the japanese guy on 2ch see it as : ｷｬﾗｿﾝからしてミツヒデへの恋心は忘れることはないけどこれからはカエサルの傍で
生きていくこと決めてる感じだからな・・・ , and other people in the thread agreed with it

[JKW47]

Originally Posted by karice67

I do agree that the 大切な人 in the final stanza is probably the same as the person in the second verse. But like Thess, I am not so sure that the song is talking about different people. Although I think that Caesar is more honest than Mitsu, what Thess said about Mitsu in episode 13 rung true when I re watched it. Though Ichihime's concern for Caesar gives a lot of food for thought (and wishful thinking on my part). So I personally won't say any more about that until that plot line is over.

But whether you are right about the interpretation of the song or not, on balance from my perspective, your explanations of the language have been less accurate than Thess's. And in my experience, newspapers are easier to understand because there's little room for interpretation. Songs are different. So, to be very frank, I don't think JLPT N2 means much in this context. (And I'm speaking as someone who has passed it.)


(P.s. 遠ざかる can simply mean "going away." I was just trying to be creative, and 'drifting away' may actually be the wrong phrase to use.)

people's feelings change.. she also threatened to kill caesar and claimed she was only going to him out of duty, but even after she is reunited with mitsu and caesar got arrested (?) and remember takedas protection is already useless since they got nuked by gupta =P technically caesar is useless now but she still worries for him so much, i cant help but think she has feelings for him now, especially after all he did for her including saving mitsu from certain death, its harder to see how she wont be moved after all the whiteknighting he did out of his love for her...

Remember that mitsu is motivated by his fathers thing and his clan, thats the real reason he is with nobunaga, while right now ceasar only cares about making her happy, even if it means saving his love rival (which is very selfless) and i think this will be what really shifts her affections to him

Also if caesar comes back doesnt it mean that she has to be his bride still and cannot be with Mitsu? but she seems to want him to be back safely and not seem to mind about that..

ahhh my shipping heart cant take it..

Originally Posted by jfs90

Spoiler for Wall:

Im sorry i cant take the guy seriously after he said she was waiting for a group of people to return when the song clearly uses 告げるためずっと待ちましょう、あなたの帰りを aka, i will wait for YOUR return, (anata no) aka singular, so yeah... and if the next couple of episodes prove im right, it will also mean my explanation is right.. let that be the judge

And as for my original translation of the song, it was obviously rushed, i was trying to give a general idea (that the song is 2 different people) not give a verbal line by line breakdown of the entire thing.. so as you put it, i was 'being creative'

And as someone who also passed N2, when native japanese people says so, i believe them, you can find people agreeing that the song refers to caesar, but NONE that denies its not, but you have to look at the 2ch threads to see it, look it up i guess, there are quite a few more out there... let me know if you find one that insists the song is all about mitsu...these guys speak japanese everyday and will know exactly what the song is referring to, and if they think it refers to 2 people, why should a mere N2 like me disagree with them?

Wanting to watch the figure that is changing is another obvious reference.. caesar is the only one who has changed for the better as the story progresses, while Mitsu steadily falls deeper and deeper into the darkness and last episode even wants nobu to NOT return so he can be lolsaviorking... (whose changing figure out of the two will she be more likely to 'want to watch'?)..

So the guy who is honest (caesar confesses his love and praises her beauty openly, contrast mitsu never confessed his feelings and hides the truth about her brother) and who she wants to see the figure change (caesar changes out of love for her, its even highlighted during the fight with cesare (did you get a new religion or something) while mitsu's change.. rewatch last ep) .. honestly, who do you think fits the description more?

Once again, character songs are meant to tie-in at certain points in the story.. the release of the songs are timed strategically.. and releasing a song referencing her worrying for YOUR RETURN, a few days after Mitsu and her finally reunites +her clearly worrying for caesar is not a coincidence, if the song is released before ep 18, i would still think its caesar. but it will be less clear, but after ep 18, judging by the timing of the release of the song, it can ONLY be caesar.. thats what convinced me.. its not reading too much, its how the guys who market the products work with other animes and stuff..

also if you agree that the taisetsu na hito is referring to the guy in the second part, then explain to me why the previous line clearly says 'even though the lingering scent of the far-off days will never be forgotten, BUT now i have an important person'.... UNLESS the song is referring to 2 different people? (the lingering scent is an obvious reference to the first guy who she describes as no matter the sins, her feelings will still be flowerish or whatever)

I sure hope youre right.. it does make sense from what you said, and a real romance between caesar and ichihime will be suitable to be the one thing that pushes mitsu to go ahead with his betrayal.. gogo honooooojiiiiii

aaaah the wait is killing me

Also from the translation using atlas and stuff it seems she is waiting for the guys return to tell him her feelings? and youre right, caesar is the only one in the oda side who has been missing for 2 episodes since mitsu already got back safely and she still hasnt confessed to him... while the song says 'i will tell you when you return' according to your translation.. it can only be caesar!

I cant wait for them to meet again...

also not sure how she will confess to mitsu while she is still caesars bride.. it wont make sense, or at least i hope shes not that much of a b*tch lol...

[JKW47]

http://www.nobunaga.tv/story.html?st=20

Looks like caesar is on his way back... riding his transformed mech!

who wants to bet caesar makes a heroic entrance and makes mitsu even more jelly? (if only i can use a regalia and have such a cool mech.. graaaah i the savioorr kinggggggg gogo honnouji)

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by JKW47

http://www.nobunaga.tv/story.html?st=20

Looks like caesar is on his way back... riding his transformed mech!

Poor Quo Vadis looks a bit weird there.

And by the looks of it, Nobu is going to be all badass again, uhh no plz. Also, uh, is Alexander going to end up like how I imagine he's going to end up? because that would be a super lame end for him. (Then again... Kenshin.)

Originally Posted by JKW47

who wants to bet caesar makes a heroic entrance and makes mitsu even more jelly? (if only i can use a regalia and have such a cool mech.. graaaah i the savioorr kinggggggg gogo honnouji)

Jelly Mitsu is the best Mitsu. XD Also, it would be nice if Ichi and Caesar met again in peaceful circumstances, with Mitsu watching.

Reality:
Ichi: Hi Caesar, you're back?
Caesar: Yeah, I'll stay here for a while.
Ichi: Got any cake?
Caesar: Sure, let's have some.

Mitsu's Jelly Vision:
Ichi: ~OH, ~*CAESAR-DONO*~ I'M *o*SO HAPPY*o* *flowing tears of joy*
Caesar: MWAHAHA I'm back to do unspeakable things to your honor and to make you forget all about that horrible Mitsuhide who can't do anything lol he's such a loser.
Ichi: ~*MITSUHIDE WHO? MY EYES CAN SEE ONLY YOU*~
Caesar: Come, my awesome new ride is waiting! *points at shiny white mecha*

[JKW47]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Poor Quo Vadis looks a bit weird there.

And by the looks of it, Nobu is going to be all badass again, uhh no plz. Also, uh, is Alexander going to end up like how I imagine he's going to end up? because that would be a super lame end for him. (Then again... Kenshin.)


Jelly Mitsu is the best Mitsu. XD Also, it would be nice if Ichi and Caesar met again in peaceful circumstances, with Mitsu watching.

Reality:
Ichi: Hi Caesar, you're back?
Caesar: Yeah, I'll stay here for a while.
Ichi: Got any cake?
Caesar: Sure, let's have some.

Mitsu's Jelly Vision:
Ichi: ~OH, ~*CAESAR-DONO*~ I'M *o*SO HAPPY*o* *flowing tears of joy*
Caesar: MWAHAHA I'm back to do unspeakable things to your honor and to make you forget all about that horrible Mitsuhide who can't do anything lol he's such a loser.
Ichi: ~*MITSUHIDE WHO? MY EYES CAN SEE ONLY YOU*~
Caesar: Come, my awesome new ride is waiting! *points at shiny white mecha*

Yeah it looks like its anorexic form of quo vadis but maybe thats just the angle..

Also caesar speeding through time and space for the sake of his love? maybe?

I cant imagine alexander dying before the last supper event, since hes in the painting... imo the 2 sides will have a truce negotation to gather the 2 sides together and thats when mitsu and brutus do their combined deed.. then again shingen is in the painting so idk... doesnt seem accurate.. anyway i saw the post about Mitsu doing 'that' in the last supper painting and my reaction is...　PFFT...hHAHAHhhaahahahahHHAHAHA ..oh mitsu you are better off as comedic relief

Im calling it now! the sun referred to in the episode is actually caesar himself, since in the end he said 'i will deliver you its warmth'....maybe he will have an epic entrance and in ep 21 he and ichi will have their romantic? reunion seeing him as her 'sun' or something(and i really hope the song is referring to him=P)

i want to knowww how will she react when she sees him again? will it be awkward 'hi'? or will he come and sweep her off her feet with some suave prince charming line? or will it be awkward with mitsu in the background? will mitsu enter his emo jelly mode again? will Mitsu finally snap after seeing them getting closer or have an intimate husband-wife moment? I can certainly see Mitsu seeing a caesar x ichi scene making him finally commit to his betrayal once and for all... i mean the creators purposely seperated caesar and ichi since ep 14, and she even had her reunion with mitsu first, only to then worry about caesar.. i cant imagine them not having a big reunion scene (prays to god)..　

[Calem24]

More Ichihime and Caesar ..

and signed by the animation director..

[JKW47]

Originally Posted by Calem24

More Ichihime and Caesar ..


and signed by the animation director..

This is still my favorite

http://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/b...8419381525.jpg

Despair more mitsu! you should be with saru instead

[LostSome]

Speaking of Mitsuhide`s love for Ichihime...
The vision was telling him that what he really wanted was to restore his clan and rule all instead of helping Nobunaga, but also...
That he wanted revenge and not really Ichihime`s love ? Or did I got the burning woman part wrong ?

[JKW47]

Originally Posted by LostSome

Speaking of Mitsuhide`s love for Ichihime...
The vision was telling him that what he really wanted was to restore his clan and rule all instead of helping Nobunaga, but also...
That he wanted revenge and not really Ichihime`s love ? Or did I got the burning woman part wrong ?

I thought so too.. because the little shit was clearly half hoping that Nobu wouldnt return so he could become the savior king... (FFS this guy is supposed to be his BEST FRIEND!!!!)
(well maybe he thinks he will have ichi easily if he becomes the savior king but idk), But remember caesar guessed (correctly) that Mitsu is only following nobunaga due to his daddy thing, so maybe he isnt as loyal to nobu as we thought, cause its all about his daddy and clan

I agree with ur main idea though, last ep it seems like Mitsu has accepted his true self and his destiny and will choose his daddy problems and akechi clan thing (betrayal route), on contrast, from ep 20 preview caesar seems to be about to choose ichi once and for all ' I will protect that light at any cost wwwwww'

is it just me or the show is portraying caesar and mitsu as polar opposites?

Caesar-bad guy turned good thanks to the light (ichi) (he doesnt even have to accept her light, he just wants to protect it awwwwww)
Mitsu-good guy rejected the light (ichi) and slowly turned bad(der)

[Rokumonsen]

Is the reason why Regalias rejected Mitsu is because he refuse to accept the 'light'?

Or he wasn't really one of the chosen?

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Zero-2

Is the reason why Regalias rejected Mitsu is because he refuse to accept the 'light'?

Or he wasn't really one of the chosen?

Come to think of it, did Mitsu even try? I don't remember seeing him trying to use one... (but it's morning here and my mind isn't quite working yet)

Both Caesar and Jeanne failed the first time they tried to use theirs, only succeeding when they were sufficiently determined, so perhaps Mitsu just hasn't reached that stage yet.

[JKW47]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Come to think of it, did Mitsu even try? I don't remember seeing him trying to use one... (but it's morning here and my mind isn't quite working yet)

Both Caesar and Jeanne failed the first time they tried to use theirs, only succeeding when they were sufficiently determined, so perhaps Mitsu just hasn't reached that stage yet.

Well the regalia responded to caesar but he failed to make the contract because shingen had already given it to nobu, so he knew he had to kill nobu first (but the regalia responded to him in a way), so caesar knew he was already one of the chosen and can actually use a regalia...

Also im pretty sure he tried at some point since he said if only i could use a shinki so he probably tried but found his ass wasnt worthy, so yeah.. Only time i can see him using a shinki is after he turned bad (maybe he will use one of arthurs sides regalias, i cant see him stealing or using any of nobus)

[DMurphy]

I don't actually remember Mitsu ever trying, which is strange. He's never really had the opportunity, either, because he's never been inside a giant war armour.

[JKW47]

Originally Posted by DMurphy

I don't actually remember Mitsu ever trying, which is strange. He's never really had the opportunity, either, because he's never been inside a giant war armour.

You dont have to be in an armor to use regalia himiko does it all the time, either way he knows he cant use it so im sure he tried at some point

[DMurphy]

Originally Posted by JKW47

You dont have to be in an armor to use regalia himiko does it all the time, either way he knows he cant use it so im sure he tried at some point

Himiko seems like a special case, though.

[JKW47]

Originally Posted by DMurphy

Himiko seems like a special case, though.

I dunno, all i know is he seems pretty sure he cant use one, and himiko uses a regalia without a giant mech, so thats enough for me

[Cloudedmind]

But, I don't think he's ever gotten one to try. Like an actual one to use of his own. Holding someone eles probably won't cut it.

[JKW47]

Originally Posted by Cloudedmind

But, I don't think he's ever gotten one to try. Like an actual one to use of his own. Holding someone eles probably won't cut it.

Hideyoshi was easily able to use one of Nobus, maybe nobu let him try offscreen, he seems sure he cant use a regalia and repeatedly said it, and even caesar had a good time rubbing it in his face

And ep 18 Nobu was able to borrow himikos regalia so you CAN borrow someone elses.. im sure he tried offscreen but failed