(L+CR) Nobunaga: The Fool

[wandering-dreamer]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

Why dd Joan and Da Vinci have to just steal the ship and get fired by their own escorts like that?
Couldn't they just ask? Didn't seem like they were kidnapping them...

That was my big question too, I mean it certainly seems pretty suspicious when two of your guests run off and steal a spaceship but honestly I thought you tried hailing them on the radio first THEN shoot and risk damaging your super-special-mech that was on board too.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Leonardo da Vinci, under orders from King Arthur, brings Jeanne Kaguya D'arc on his spaceship so that she can help Oda Nobunaga fight off mechs on his planet. This easily tops Valvrave on the WTF o meter. Seriously, WTF were they smoking when they came up with this?

I have no idea if I love it or hate it yet. That's a lot to take in all at once. I need a few more episodes to decide, I can't tell if this will be great or be a complete trainwreck. The only thing I'm sure of at the moment is that the mechs look fantastic, as expected of Kawamori (it's the only aspect of his work that's always consistent...). Speaking of the mechs, I was hoping they would be operated like in Escaflowne (I don't know why so few series use that system) but the controls are typically what you get in mecha series. I'm kind of disappointed.

Oh good, I hoped as I watched the episode that I wasn't the only one who thought it strange that while the Eastern historical figures all seem to belong together, the Western ones seem to be this very weird mish-mash of figures from all over history that have little to do with each other. And there is little to no explanation as to why they should be there. None of them really act like their historical counterparts except in the very basics. Why pick those particular people if you weren't going to use their historical significance properly?

This series does seem to be a little all-over-the-place in that they are trying to tell us a lot of stuff that's going on, but they actually show us very little. For instance there is supposed to be this dream connection thing that happens between Nobunaga and Jeanne, and yet they do little to show it other than have them suddenly recognize each other.

Originally Posted by Om Nerabdator

Pretty damn good first episode, lets hope Jeanne is actually capable of fighting and is not there just to get kidnapped every 2nd episode

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

I have absolutely no idea what I just watched. There was way too much going on. I am also not too fond of how they decided to portray Joan of Arc.

That all being said I will continue to watch for at least a few more episodes due to the cast. That was quite an eargasm.

Originally Posted by Blaat

Yeah, Joan of Arc is basically a typical helpless shoujo heroine rather than a kick ass fighter commanding thousands of male troops. Also Kaguya... really?

This is what I thought too when it came to Jeanne. Right now all she seems is that blond ditz that's supposed to be tough, but in the presence of the hero she faints, trips, and has to be saved all the time. She's weak and frail for no reason, and she just ends up being the strange shunned girl who has powers that only she can use, but is hated for.

They do know WHY Jeanne d'Arc was such a famous figure right? It wasn't just because she burned at the stake and she is one of the most famous martyrs and saints in Christendom. Jeanne d'Arc was a warrior of great bravery, great faith, and great skill and intelligence who stood equal with men, and lead them into battle.

If you are going to equate this character with her, enough to show her being burned at the stake, then at least give her the dignity of being a strong female character, and hopefully a strong female fighter.

Though why exactly did you add "Kaguya" to her name? Why not have a Japanese Kaguya? I seriously doubt that a world that completely Western oriented, would just suddenly decide to have a Japanese name as her middle name.

Originally Posted by wandering-dreamer

That was my big question too, I mean it certainly seems pretty suspicious when two of your guests run off and steal a spaceship but honestly I thought you tried hailing them on the radio first THEN shoot and risk damaging your super-special-mech that was on board too.

This was something I was confused on too. Why steal a ship? Magellan has just previously said that Da Vinci could test his new mech as he wanted and basically they were pretty much welcome to do as they liked. Yet suddenly Jeanne as a very vague vision, and he's suddenly knocking out security and stealing a ship. Why? Leonardo had already hired Magellan to take him to the East Star, and Magellan was very accommodating, and even King Arthur allowed the journey. So why suddenly turn rebel and steal the ship? Couldn't he have just asked? I know it was all spur of the moment and all, but come on!

And then why did Magellan start firing on them? Why not call their ship and ask what's going on? Why send a retrieval team? It's not like Leonardo is an enemy of the state or something? Was this just to give Nobu something to fight to show off the new super mech's skills? If so, this was the most stupid and haphazard way of doing it.

[Thess]

Well, it was a promising first episode, but it had some shades of Aquarion in general. I liked that Jeanne's Mori Ranmaru's reincarnation, I should have noticed this when he was missing of the cast.

[Master_Yoma]

Not to bad of a start but Leonardo Da Vinci is anther weirdo is he going to build his doomsday machine

[Tempest35]

Good grief, it was like watching Aquarion EVOL all over again.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

This is what I thought too when it came to Jeanne. Right now all she seems is that blond ditz that's supposed to be tough, but in the presence of the hero she faints, trips, and has to be saved all the time. She's weak and frail for no reason, and she just ends up being the strange shunned girl who has powers that only she can use, but is hated for.

They do know WHY Jeanne d'Arc was such a famous figure right? It wasn't just because she burned at the stake and she is one of the most famous martyrs and saints in Christendom. Jeanne d'Arc was a warrior of great bravery, great faith, and great skill and intelligence who stood equal with men, and lead them into battle.

If you are going to equate this character with her, enough to show her being burned at the stake, then at least give her the dignity of being a strong female character, and hopefully a strong female fighter.

Though why exactly did you add "Kaguya" to her name? Why not have a Japanese Kaguya? I seriously doubt that a world that completely Western oriented, would just suddenly decide to have a Japanese name as her middle name.

Patience, Jeanne didn't become a war leader campaign until she got out the town in search for her holy mission, following her visions which is what she's starting to do now: obeying a King (she was never the 'true' leader, but a girl who organized parties based on her visions). She started as a common villager, ok? I think the Kaguya name was added to mislead the audience, because she was Ranmaru in one of her previous lives.

Originally Posted by Tempest35

Good grief, it was like watching Aquarion EVOL all over again.

It has some Escaflowne and Fate/Stay Night!

[zztop]

Interesting 1st episode. Will see how things go from here.

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

On the East's side, we get Oda Nobunaga, Akechi Mitsuhide, Mori Ranmaru, and I think Sarutobi Sasuke.

Actually I think Monkey is supposed to be (warlord) Toyotomi Hideyoshi. Historical records state the real Hideyoshi as having monkey-like facial features and a skinny build, which led the real Nobunaga to call him Monkey/ Saru as a nickname.

Character designs are done by Kazuki Yone, who also did the character designs for the Hakuoki game series.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Leonardo da Vinci, under orders from King Arthur, brings Jeanne Kaguya D'arc on his spaceship so that she can help Oda Nobunaga fight off mechs on his planet. This easily tops Valvrave on the WTF o meter. Seriously, WTF were they smoking when they came up with this?

Lol this is considered mild already...

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Thess

Patience, Jeanne didn't become a war leader campaign until she got out the town in search for her holy mission, following her visions which is what she's starting to do now: obeying a King (she was never the 'true' leader, but a girl who organized parties based on her visions). She started as a common villager, ok? I think the Kaguya name was added to mislead the audience, because she was Ranmaru in one of her previous lives.

Well, since she's the reincarnation of Ranmaru, who was Nobunaga's boy toy, I don't see her becoming a strong warrior any time soon. She doesn't seem the fighter type anyway. She's more the boobs type.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Though why exactly did you add "Kaguya" to her name? Why not have a Japanese Kaguya? I seriously doubt that a world that completely Western oriented, would just suddenly decide to have a Japanese name as her middle name.

Cause in some versions of story Kaguya was obviously not Japanese. Besides being an alien princess from the moon Kaguya is blonde.

This was something I was confused on too. Why steal a ship? Magellan has just previously said that Da Vinci could test his new mech as he wanted and basically they were pretty much welcome to do as they liked. Yet suddenly Jeanne as a very vague vision, and he's suddenly knocking out security and stealing a ship. Why? Leonardo had already hired Magellan to take him to the East Star, and Magellan was very accommodating, and even King Arthur allowed the journey. So why suddenly turn rebel and steal the ship? Couldn't he have just asked? I know it was all spur of the moment and all, but come on!

And then why did Magellan start firing on them? Why not call their ship and ask what's going on? Why send a retrieval team? It's not like Leonardo is an enemy of the state or something? Was this just to give Nobu something to fight to show off the new super mech's skills? If so, this was the most stupid and haphazard way of doing it.

One Magellan ordered to shoot first ask questions later. He did not ask who commandeered the dropship.

Two Leonardo Da Vinci's personality here is mysterious insufferable genius like Fudou from the Aquarion franchise.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Lol this is considered mild already...

I agree. This is not Valvrave level yet.

I enjoyed this episode. When that mecha awakened, music played similar Escaflowne was played and the nostalgia kicked in.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Two Leonardo Da Vinci's personality here is mysterious insufferable genius like Fudou from the Aquarion franchise.

And both are based on Dryden from Escaflowne. Heck, Leo is basically a clone of Dryden down to his character design.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Thess

Patience, Jeanne didn't become a war leader campaign until she got out the town in search for her holy mission, following her visions which is what she's starting to do now: obeying a King (she was never the 'true' leader, but a girl who organized parties based on her visions). She started as a common villager, ok? I think the Kaguya name was added to mislead the audience, because she was Ranmaru in one of her previous lives.

Hey, Jeanne was true leader whether she was fighting for king and country or not. Also, I guess I will have patience, however they don't give me much confidence with Jeanne as some blond girl with a large rack, who has yet to do anything of merit really.

Also, I'm going to have to look at Ranmaru again. That part really confused me with the whole Jeanne/Ranmaru thing. Why are the two the same person? How and when exactly did one reincarnate into the other? What connection do they have? Unfortunately, I know little to nothing about Japanese historical figures, and all that I do know sadly came from Sengoku Basara.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I'm going to have to look at Ranmaru again. That part really confused me with the whole Jeanne/Ranmaru thing. Why are the two the same person?

Ranmaru was one of Nobunaga's attendant. He also was his homosexual lover. I suppose they made Jaenne his reincarnation because she's Nobunaga's love interest....

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Cause in some versions of story Kaguya was obviously not Japanese. Besides being an alien princess from the moon Kaguya is blonde.

Who is Kaguya exactly? I know little to nothing about Japanese history or myth for the most part.

One Magellan ordered to shoot first ask questions later. He did not ask who commandeered the dropship.

Two Leonardo Da Vinci's personality here is mysterious insufferable genius like Fudou from the Aquarion franchise.

I have not watched Aquarion so why should I have to know about that? And he hasn't really shown me much of that genius yet really. In fact, he hasn't really done anything yet but take Jeanne to East Star.

Also, Magellan knew it was Da Vinci, that's why he asked after he fired at the ship what what Leo doing. I'm not the only one who was confused by that scene. Magellan clearly was willing to give and let Leonardo do whatever he wanted, so why steal the ship? The scene made no sense.

[Myssa Rei]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Who is Kaguya exactly? I know little to nothing about Japanese history or myth for the most part.

Kaguya is obviously the reference from the Tale of the Bamboo Cutter. It's been referenced so many times in anime that it's surprising that someone DOESN'T know about it.

These days though, the name Kaguya brings to mind a certain lazy and loopy Lunarian princess...

As for Fudou, ah, he's the mentor character for BOTH Aquarion shows (which incidentally are set 10,000 years apart). That said, I didn't quite get the same vibe from Leonardo. Less oblique advise for example, and most importantly, NO DONUTS.

[Flower]

You know, I also was confused, but for now since it is only ep 1 perhaps things will become clearer in later eps.

Perhaps DaVinci knew something that has not yet been revealed or something like that?

Lets give the series a chance to surprise us with what may be plot elements not immediately spelled out - if that is what they are, of course.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Who is Kaguya exactly? I know little to nothing about Japanese history or myth for the most part.

Short summary of the Tale of the Bamboo Cutter.

A childless old man went to the forest to cut some bamboo. He cuts a bamboo stalk and he finds a baby girl and around her lots of gold. He and his wife adopt and raise the baby as their own and uses the gold to raise their standard of living. As Kaguya grew into a beautiful maiden (in some versions having golden hair) she had a number of suitors. Not wanting to get married she sends her suitors to wild goose chases. Eventually the emperor of Japan heard of her and courted her as well. One summer she becomes depressed all the sudden and reveals the truth to the emperor why she can't get married. She's not from this planet. She's from the moon. She loved her adoptive parents and the time she spent on Earth. The Emperor orders his army to protect Kaguya from being taken back. The army of the moon capital came to take back Kaguya and defeated the Emperor's men. Beams of light were mentioned to have been used by the moon people. Kaguya wearing a celestial robe that will wipe her memories and an elixir she left with her people. Before that she left behind an elixir of immortality and a letters of apology for her parents and the emperor. After having read the letter the Emperor asks where is the highest peak in Japan. One of his men answered the mountain in Suruga. Emperor ordered the elixir of immortality burned. The mountain would later be called Mt. Fuji. Kaguya's adopted parents died of grief of losing Kaguya.

Basically this folktale is Japan's first Sci-fi story. Premises of this story would later be used in various Tokusatsu shows. Its like Kal-El being adopted by the Kents.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

Kaguya is obviously the reference from the Tale of the Bamboo Cutter. It's been referenced so many times in anime that it's surprising that someone DOESN'T know about it.

These days though, the name Kaguya brings to mind a certain lazy and loopy Lunarian princess...

As for Fudou, ah, he's the mentor character for BOTH Aquarion shows (which incidentally are set 10,000 years apart). That said, I didn't quite get the same vibe from Leonardo. Less oblique advise for example, and most importantly, NO DONUTS.

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Short summary of the Tale of the Bamboo Cutter.

A childless old man went to the forest to cut some bamboo. He cuts a bamboo stalk and he finds a baby girl and around her lots of gold. He and his wife adopt and raise the baby as their own and uses the gold to raise their standard of living. As Kaguya grew into a beautiful maiden (in some versions having golden hair) she had a number of suitors. Not wanting to get married she sends her suitors to wild goose chases. Eventually the emperor of Japan heard of her and courted her as well. One summer she becomes depressed all the sudden and reveals the truth to the emperor why she can't get married. She's not from this planet. She's from the moon. She loved her adoptive parents and the time she spent on Earth. The Emperor orders his army to protect Kaguya from being taken back. The army of the moon capital came to take back Kaguya and defeated the Emperor's men. Beams of light were mentioned to have been used by the moon people. Kaguya wearing a celestial robe that will wipe her memories and an elixir she left with her people. Before that she left behind an elixir of immortality and a letters of apology for her parents and the emperor. After having read the letter the Emperor asks where is the highest peak in Japan. One of his men answered the mountain in Suruga. Emperor ordered the elixir of immortality burned. The mountain would later be called Mt. Fuji. Kaguya's adopted parents died of grief of losing Kaguya.

Basically this folktale is Japan's first Sci-fi story. Premises of this story would later be used in various Tokusatsu shows. Its like Kal-El being adopted by the Kents.

Thanks, that actually was interesting. I think I actually do remember Kaguya or at least a version of her. I think I remember her being a character in the Inuyasha franchise some years back, I also think she might have been mentioned or hinted at in the series Ayashi no Ceres.

Yeah, I think I remember the lunar maiden part and the celestial robe or something like that. I don't remember any version I saw of her as blond persay, but I get it.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Well, since she's the reincarnation of Ranmaru, who was Nobunaga's boy toy, I don't see her becoming a strong warrior any time soon. She doesn't seem the fighter type anyway. She's more the boobs type.

Nobunaga/Ranmaru is the historical OTP in Japan, so it was a good call to make her his reincarnation or there will be an upset nation of viewers.

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Also, I'm going to have to look at Ranmaru again. That part really confused me with the whole Jeanne/Ranmaru thing. Why are the two the same person? How and when exactly did one reincarnate into the other? What connection do they have? Unfortunately, I know little to nothing about Japanese historical figures, and all that I do know sadly came from Sengoku Basara.

Jeanne died in 1431. Ranmaru was born in 1565. Since we're getting the reincarnations Kawamori liked so much, he probably was the French Jeanne's reincarnation and now the same soul became this Kaguya Jeanne. You were mistaking the third boy, Hideyoshi, the "monkey." Mori Ranmaru was Oda Nobunaga's attendant, devoted follower and lover. There was even the rumor that Mitsuhide's betrayal was also moved by jealousy of their relationship (you have the seeds of typical dramatic Kawamori triangle in the making here). While Oda had a wife, his major love story as cultural and historical icon is with his devoted valet Ranmaru.