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Old 2022-05-26, 16:12   Link #641
mangamuscle
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He claims that he observed 10 Javelin ATGM strikes on Russian tanks and only one led to a K-kill.

I would take that with a sizeable pinch of salt. The tweet obviously is pro-russian and trying to make other like minded individuals pitch (or way or the other) into putin's war. But if russian tanks are basically coffins waiting to happen, people would be less likely to put their hard earned money (or time) into a futile endeavor. Yeah, I do know not all attacks on russian tanks are successful, but 1 in 10 is quite low, specially if you compare it with the:

As many as 60% of Russia's missile strikes on Ukraine are failing to launch or don't explode on impact

https://news.yahoo.com/many-60-russi...114321086.html
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Old 2022-05-26, 17:17   Link #642
ramlaen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangamuscle View Post
He claims that he observed 10 Javelin ATGM strikes on Russian tanks and only one led to a K-kill.

I would take that with a sizeable pinch of salt. The tweet obviously is pro-russian and trying to make other like minded individuals pitch (or way or the other) into putin's war. But if russian tanks are basically coffins waiting to happen, people would be less likely to put their hard earned money (or time) into a futile endeavor. Yeah, I do know not all attacks on russian tanks are successful, but 1 in 10 is quite low, specially if you compare it with the:

As many as 60% of Russia's missile strikes on Ukraine are failing to launch or don't explode on impact

https://news.yahoo.com/many-60-russi...114321086.html
Rob Lee is very much not "pro Russian" but as he said it is an interview from a Russian publication so it must be viewed through that lens.

1 in 10 k-kills doesn't mean 1 in 10 knocked out a Russian tank it means 1 in 10 outright went kaboom when hit.

"as many as" is a meaningless number.
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Old 2022-05-26, 21:05   Link #643
mangamuscle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramlaen View Post
Rob Lee is very much not "pro Russian" but as he said it is an interview from a Russian publication so it must be viewed through that lens.
I am talking about the quoted text and by extension, whoever wrote it. I couldn't care less who did the translation, albeit I am assuming the translation does not deviate from the original.

Quote:
"as many as" is a meaningless number.
"1 in 10" is an anecdotal evidence from (supposedly) one soldier (but tbt was published in russian by someone else), therefore is totally worthless; the "as many as" is attributed to people on the intelligence community, you know, those that putin and trump despise but the rest of the world hold in higher regard with respect to information gathering.
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Old 2022-05-27, 00:20   Link #644
ramlaen
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Originally Posted by mangamuscle View Post
the "as many as" is attributed to people on the intelligence community
That isn't what the article you linked says, it even goes so far as to state "They did not say why the rate could be so high, nor did they provide Reuters with any evidence of their assessment.", but anyway please control yourself and try to not make everything about Trump.
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Old 2022-05-27, 03:44   Link #645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangamuscle View Post
"1 in 10" is an anecdotal evidence from (supposedly) one soldier (but tbt was published in russian by someone else), therefore is totally worthless; the "as many as" is attributed to people on the intelligence community, you know, those that putin and trump despise but the rest of the world hold in higher regard with respect to information gathering.
Do I have to remind you than the intelligence community do disinformation as well as information gathering. Anyone remembering the lead-up to the Irak Invasion should know that.

Information coming from all side should be taken with a lot of salt, not only the russian suporting one.
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Old 2022-05-27, 10:33   Link #646
mangamuscle
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Originally Posted by ramlaen View Post
That isn't what the article you linked says, it even goes so far as to state "They did not say why the rate could be so high, nor did they provide Reuters with any evidence of their assessment.", but anyway please control yourself and try to not make everything about Trump.
Yes it does right at the beginning three US officials with knowledge of intelligence on the issue, told Reuters. I never said they provided any comprehensive paper about their reported numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Do I have to remind you than the intelligence community do disinformation as well as information gathering. Anyone remembering the lead-up to the Irak Invasion should know that.

Information coming from all side should be taken with a lot of salt, not only the russian suporting one.
No doubt about it, but unlike the iraq war, the west intelligence agencies reports right before and during the war have proven to be true (or as true as can we see). If there were holes in the west reports, those bureaucrats at the EU would no doubt use them to build their case about appeasing putin the alligator with a piece of Ukraine.

I do believe that the USA government knew full well that putin had built a potemkin army that would fall apart faster than it did back in Afghanistan, even though they kept saying that Kiev would fall in a week and kept praising putin's "strategic genius" so he would get so full of himself as to make basic errors (that dictators are prone to do).
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Old 2022-05-27, 11:01   Link #647
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Originally Posted by mangamuscle View Post
Yes it does right at the beginning three US officials with knowledge of intelligence on the issue, told Reuters. I never said they provided any comprehensive paper about their reported numbers.
Three unnamed 'officials' giving conflicting and unverified third hand information, not the intelligence community.

And speaking of Afghanistan, remember all the emergency evacuations that happened because US officials kept assuring people that Kabul was not going to fall? Or the aid worker and his kids that got droned because the intelligence community thought jugs of water were bombs (and insisted they had proof)?
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Old 2022-05-27, 14:07   Link #648
mangamuscle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramlaen View Post
Three unnamed 'officials' giving conflicting
Said statements are conflicting only if you compare them to the russian state propaganda machine.

Quote:
and unverified third hand information, not the intelligence community.
So, it this a leak? no, they are simply weaponizing the truth to demoralize the enemy. Did they got their data from some guy smoking weed behind a 7eleven? That is always a possibility, but you know too well using non trustworthy sources would come back to bite Reuters in the ass, which imo is quite unlikely, there are more professional than 'murrican news outlets. But come back to me if later you can verify that russian armament is up to modern standards of quality.

Quote:
And speaking of Afghanistan, remember all the emergency evacuations that happened because US officials kept assuring people that Kabul was not going to fall? Or the aid worker and his kids that got droned because the intelligence community thought jugs of water were bombs (and insisted they had proof)?
To me it is clear that those people that had benefited economically from the Afghanistan invasion didn't want the USA army to pull out, they just needed to convince the public that there was an clear and imminent danger to justify the prolonging "the mission" but also to reassure them that everything was under control. Remember, the work of the intelligence agencies is not to give us (the people) the truth, it is to give the government the truth and they decide whether to share all, some or none of it and whether to feed us sweet instead.

The simply truth that just like in cuba, the USA gave money to a corrupt government, some people thought they would be better off with a local insurrection, but surprise, the new boss is worse than the old boss.
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Old 2022-05-27, 23:23   Link #649
Yu Ominae
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DPR announced that Aiden Aslin (aka Cossack) is likely to face the death penalty there for fighting as a mercenary despite proof that he enlisted under Ukrainian military forces.

Aslin is also a naturalized Ukrainian.
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Old 2022-05-28, 08:13   Link #650
mangamuscle
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DPR announced that Aiden Aslin (aka Cossack) is likely to face the death penalty there for fighting as a mercenary despite proof that he enlisted under Ukrainian military forces.

Aslin is also a naturalized Ukrainian.
If the kremlin really executes him, at best they expect to intimidate (stop) the wave of foreign fighters and at worst to remove them from the war one at a time. Of course what will really happen is that they will fight more fiercely, since getting captured stops being an option.

Not to mention that (again) it will look badly for the kremlin, losing the narrative once again (and for decades to come, truly a Vietnam mirror image).
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Old 2022-05-28, 20:55   Link #651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangamuscle View Post
If the kremlin really executes him, at best they expect to intimidate (stop) the wave of foreign fighters and at worst to remove them from the war one at a time. Of course what will really happen is that they will fight more fiercely, since getting captured stops being an option.

Not to mention that (again) it will look badly for the kremlin, losing the narrative once again (and for decades to come, truly a Vietnam mirror image).
I expect the former for those who aren't battle hardened.
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Old 2022-05-29, 18:20   Link #652
mangamuscle
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I expect the former for those who aren't battle hardened.
That would have happened anyway when people without experience or resolve as soon as they experience the battlefield first hand.

I took this quote from the CNN website from the turkish goverment about nordic countries being accepted into NATO:

"We are determined to ensure that the process moves forward on a solid basis and that it progresses depending on the steps taken to meet Turkey's security concerns," Kalin said.

It is just me or turkey is starting to sound like russia 3+ months ago.

Also, dunno if it is true but heard that many russian conscripts contracts expire this month and they expect to quit faster than you can say "cannon fodder". BTW, no one is taking the bait to take their place, hence the removal of an upper age limit to be drafted into putin's "special operation".
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Old 2022-06-03, 22:11   Link #653
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https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status...Cw7ees1MUqAAAA

Improvised MLRS in pickup trucks as used by Ukrainian forces.
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Old 2022-06-04, 00:19   Link #654
mangamuscle
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100 days of Ukraine's "denazification", but unlike stalin's attempt to "denazify" Finland, putin hasn't cut short his loses, he continues to double down. Of course he is afraid history repeating itself and putinism going the way of czarism.

The next 100 days we will se slowly but surely Ukraine retake territory while maximizing russian attrition. I do wonder if we will see in this period the conflict extend to belarus or chechenya, time will tell.

The other day I heard china has been doing military exercises near the russian border, maybe russia will be divided before the antarctic!

https://vividmaps.com/wp-content/upl...s-1024x576.jpg
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Old 2022-06-06, 11:27   Link #655
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Spoiler for Lotsa links.:
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Old 2022-06-07, 11:18   Link #656
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Spoiler for Lotsa links.:
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Old 2022-06-07, 16:39   Link #657
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probably not legal under forum rules to be posting them here, so I'm not linking.. there are some videos in reddit of russian soldiers being hit by drone bomb or stepping into explosives - with tiktok music added as they are dying. What's even weird is many people at that section of reddit are happy about that. I guess this is karma coming back to russians (due to all the misery they caused in Ukraine), where loss of human life if it's russian has become something to be celebrated and happy about.
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Old 2022-06-07, 16:56   Link #658
Infinite Zenith
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That sort of karma can go both ways; the dehumanisation of one's foes is what leads to atrocities becoming increasingly heinous, and the trivialisation of death in memes similarly isn't helpful. Then again, we are talking about Reddit, where some of the internet's most depraved cretins operate out of: while I don't condone the war or invasion, the Redditors crossed a line and shouldn't be given any exposure, much less supported.
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Old 2022-06-08, 03:51   Link #659
Renegade334
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Originally Posted by Liddo-kun View Post
I guess this is karma coming back to russians (due to all the misery they caused in Ukraine), where loss of human life if it's russian has become something to be celebrated and happy about.
It's just our times' homebrew of Schadenfreude and Internet insensitivity. For many, it's an opportunity to rejoice watching Putin and his cohorts stumbling and getting laughed at globally, after years of watching him treading the line (Novichok killings, Chechnya, Crimea, Georgia, Syria) and getting away with it. I'm not justifying any form of mockery against the unfortunate poor souls who actually have to fight the wars on behalf of others (who will never directly feel the suffering) and shall ultimately find themselves dead or horrifically maimed, but the overall glee manifested towards Russian failure and humiliation does not come out of nowhere. It is tapping into something that's been there for a while.

That said, it's the Internet. Unless you're in China where what you say online could actually land you in a reeducation center, you can freely laugh at puppies being hypothetically thrown into a wood chipper...because, at the end of the day, you'll just rationalize (honestly or dishonestly, it doesn't matter) that it's just words and images on a screen, it's not exactly "real" because it's not happening in front of you, and, hey, there's not much enforceable accountability for your words in the first place, so why hold back and leave the filters on?

Not a nice thought process, one must admit.
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Last edited by Renegade334; 2022-06-08 at 11:42.
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Old 2022-06-08, 12:58   Link #660
mangamuscle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liddo-kun View Post
probably not legal under forum rules to be posting them here, so I'm not linking.. there are some videos in reddit of russian soldiers being hit by drone bomb or stepping into explosives - with tiktok music added as they are dying. What's even weird is many people at that section of reddit are happy about that. I guess this is karma coming back to russians (due to all the misery they caused in Ukraine), where loss of human life if it's russian has become something to be celebrated and happy about.
This are two separate subjects.

A) Violence as a form of entertainment. The Coliseum in Rome is a clear example. We can rationalize it whatever we want, but it is there probably since the birth of civilization, where violence became the monopoly of the ruling class.

B) Narratives on the internet. The Ukrainians clearly have the upper hand here, they have the technology and the will to use it. Meanwhile the russians do not have the technology (being in possession of a smartphone or camera but lacking the know how to edit a video is the same as not having it) nor the will (why do it if you are not getting paid). Besides, many russian soldiers won't like being filmed since they know later on their war crimes might catch up to them.
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