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Old 2022-04-07, 12:25   Link #41
Jan-Poo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
I’ve said it before, but I don’t think the intent was to make him look good by comparison, but rather to note the problems with certain types of “hero” (both LN heroes and gameplay styles). One’s a loner who focuses on power, one is always just even when he doesn’t bother to think things through, and one only cares about making any woman near him happy. These all have connections to common heroic tropes, and we’re shown how bad they can be.
If that was the objective I feel that the point would have come across better if they weren't also completely incompetent.

We've already witnessed a situation where basically they couldn't even deal a single damage to the main enemy, and thus we witnessed Naofumi singlehandedly defeating her while everyone else just stood there and watched barely giving their contribution by killing random monsters.

The hero that "only focuses on power" certainly has his own faults, but being completing helpless shouldn't be one.

In the end it really does feel like the other heroes only exist to make Naofumi look better in comparison, and it's been jarring for a long while now.

I can only hope that this is meant to be a build up for the moment when they finally become an effective squad, but so far it really does feel like the story is focused only Naofumi and his personal party and how they are the only ones who can truly make a difference in this multidimensional battle.
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Old 2022-04-07, 15:00   Link #42
BWTraveller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
If that was the objective I feel that the point would have come across better if they weren't also completely incompetent.

We've already witnessed a situation where basically they couldn't even deal a single damage to the main enemy, and thus we witnessed Naofumi singlehandedly defeating her while everyone else just stood there and watched barely giving their contribution by killing random monsters.

The hero that "only focuses on power" certainly has his own faults, but being completing helpless shouldn't be one.

In the end it really does feel like the other heroes only exist to make Naofumi look better in comparison, and it's been jarring for a long while now.

I can only hope that this is meant to be a build up for the moment when they finally become an effective squad, but so far it really does feel like the story is focused only Naofumi and his personal party and how they are the only ones who can truly make a difference in this multidimensional battle.
True, this isn't a brilliant execution. I've always held that this was a GOOD series. No masterpiece, far from perfection in its execution of things, but pretty darn good, a satisfying read/watch that at least tries to do things well, and often far from many of the things I've heard people claim of it in the past. That doesn't mean it's great. I would, for instance, have greatly preferred if Rishia chose not to become a slave. As I'd said before, she seems to me to be a good character to demonstrate that it's not a matter of "good women are subservient" as a subservient nature is a big flaw with her, to the point of being a major part of what makes her annoying even to the main character. While it would fit for her to be willing to sacrifice everything, up to and including her freedom, to become strong enough, still her going that far does seem to invite further criticism.

Same goes with the other heroes. I got the feeling they were supposed to satirize common heroic traits like loyalty, strength and justice, but they go a bit too far and end up being no more than caricatures a lot of the time. If they'd been toned down just a bit, allowed to show that their heroism could be positive at times, it might have done better. Show that being loyal to one's companions and believing in them is a good thing that can do a lot to support the party, but also something that can be taken too far and cause problems, rather than only showing how easily a "loyal" man is taken advantage of. Maybe have him save Rino (a character from the LN) from the brothel because she had been part of their party but refuse to believe that his party members were really the ones that sold her. Or show Itsuki actually saving lives and earning some of the praise he craves rather than only showing how many of his heroics fail to actually improve things due to his focusing more on being the great hero that saves the day than on actually figuring out how to actually help solve a sticky situation.

Either way, my point was that it felt to me more like these guys were made to make fun of heroic tropes than to make Naofumi look like a saint in comparison. It's just that too much focus was put on showing how bad these traits are when taken too far and too little was given to show that it can be good when done right and in moderation.

Anyway, setting that aside, along with Keel's bandages I also noticed one possible mistake. Is it just me, or did the little kids that ran by Naofumi suddenly change height relative to one another after bumping into him?
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Old 2022-04-07, 15:18   Link #43
frodonk
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Starting off with another slave and another slave scene is a bold move, let's see how it plays out

As for everything else, I'm only watching this to see Glass again
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Old 2022-04-07, 16:27   Link #44
GDB
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As a manga reader, I'm slightly torn.

On the one hand, I feel like I remember an entire other arc happening between the end of season 1 (not counting the "becoming lord of a land" nonsense) and the Spirit Turtle arc. Including another party member, and a whole lot more about Rishia's training (which I could've sworn involved her resetting herself back to level 1).

On the other hand, the Spirit Turtle arc was absolutely boring as hell in the manga, so if they want to rush through it, I'd be a-okay with that.
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Old 2022-04-07, 17:52   Link #45
Kanon
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I think the argument is more that the threat isn't empty from an in-universe perspective. It's just that the audience know she will never get to follow through on it because the story hinges on the heroes succeeding.
Isn't it an empty threat in-universe too? If she gets rid of them and new heroes get summoned, they'll start at level one and get utterly raped in the next wave. Killing them automatically dooms the world. Unless newly summoned heroes inherit the old heroes' stats or something.
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Old 2022-04-07, 18:38   Link #46
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yeah threat feels very empty, Im not even sure she even has the juice to carry it out if she actually wanted to
like last time we saw her Naofumi and co were lvl 20 something and hadnt promoted yet, quite a ways far from the 75+ promoted units they are now
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Old 2022-04-07, 19:25   Link #47
BWTraveller
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I wouldn’t say it’s an empty threat. Basically she’s saying that four heroes who can’t cooperate are so useless that even a group of level-1 losers would be better. Sort of a demonstration of just how bad a situation it is.
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Old 2022-04-07, 19:39   Link #48
grecefar
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sigh... maybe I need to rewatch season one, for one I don't recall risha joining the party, and were did the penguin suit came from?, this is my problem when a second season come to far off from season 1.
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Old 2022-04-07, 20:13   Link #49
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Originally Posted by grecefar View Post
sigh... maybe I need to rewatch season one, for one I don't recall risha joining the party, and were did the penguin suit came from?, this is my problem when a second season come to far off from season 1.
The penguin suit was a drop from the Cal Mira islands. It’s actually strong armor that is ridiculous in concept so no one but Rishia wears it.
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Old 2022-04-07, 22:08   Link #50
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The penguin suit was a drop from the Cal Mira islands. It’s actually strong armor that is ridiculous in concept so no one but Rishia wears it.
I remember it because Raphtalia was showing herself off to Naofumi in a swimsuit and his takeaway...was putting her in a Penguin costume .
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Old 2022-04-08, 05:06   Link #51
Dengar
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Isn't it an empty threat in-universe too? If she gets rid of them and new heroes get summoned, they'll start at level one and get utterly raped in the next wave. Killing them automatically dooms the world. Unless newly summoned heroes inherit the old heroes' stats or something.
The argument is that if the heroes don't shape up, not killing them dooms the world, so might as well gamble on the idea that the next set might be be better than the current set.

Level grinding is a thing.
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Old 2022-04-08, 08:57   Link #52
stray
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Originally Posted by cyberdemon View Post
The penguin suit was a drop from the Cal Mira islands. It’s actually strong armor that is ridiculous in concept so no one but Rishia wears it.
They sort of truncated her backstory since she was introduced at the end of S1 but since Itsuki's party put her in one she has a thing for outfits like that because she's so shy and fweh; she wore a squirrel costume regularly with Itsuki's group that they didn't let her keep.
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Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
Either way, my point was that it felt to me more like these guys were made to make fun of heroic tropes than to make Naofumi look like a saint in comparison. It's just that too much focus was put on showing how bad these traits are when taken too far and too little was given to show that it can be good when done right and in moderation.
I think you're reading too much into it but the series definitely wants to show Naofumi as the antihero/underdog and the heroes as victims of their own hubris. I figure they'll be redeemed eventually though I'd imagine competent is the best we can hope for; cooperative seems a bridge too far. They're supposed to be in different countries anyway which would probably help their relationships.
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Old 2022-04-08, 09:47   Link #53
BWTraveller
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Well, it's a bit more obvious in the LN, where occasionally at or near points where various heroes screw up there are little blurbs that seem to be more discussions of the heroes of the book Naofumi had been reading when he was isekai'd. They talk about how a given hero's nature is strongly linked to a certain trait, but then notes that such a trait can be taken too far and become something very bad. If I remember right this happened, for instance, right before the sequence with Motoyasu and Rino. It was a little anvilicious but made it quite clear the author wanted to raise questions about taking certain heroic traits too far and the general way that many LN protagonists will just have things go right whatever they do.
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Old 2022-04-08, 11:04   Link #54
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I wonder how much novel content S2 can cover.

And speaking of novels, I've noticed the author hasn't released any new volumes since Vol 22 in 2019. I wonder what's going on; surely it cant be cancellation.
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Old 2022-04-08, 15:58   Link #55
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I wonder how much novel content S2 can cover.

And speaking of novels, I've noticed the author hasn't released any new volumes since Vol 22 in 2019. I wonder what's going on; surely it cant be cancellation.
Likely through volume 10 based on them adapting the first 5 volumes in season 1. The third season will likely only adapt 4 volumes through volume 14 since 15 and beyond is an extended storyline.

As for the novel, I find it likely we could get a new novel announcement sometime soon. Animes are generally made to promote their novel or anime. So doesn’t make much sense for a series on haitus unless there was a reason to promote it. Arifureta did this last season where they announced the first new volume of the Arifureta main series with the beginning of its 2nd season.
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Old 2022-04-08, 16:56   Link #56
stray
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Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
It was a little anvilicious but made it quite clear the author wanted to raise questions about taking certain heroic traits too far and the general way that many LN protagonists will just have things go right whatever they do.
I mean I'm sure there are traits that they should be aspiring to or traits associated with their weapons. But like... the heroes are still nowhere close to really coming around. And Naofumi cleaning up their messes is probably keeping them from the rock bottom they have to reach to really want to improve. As they are now they're basically irredeemable.
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Old 2022-04-08, 17:36   Link #57
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I have never read the novels so I dont know if its more nuanced there, but in the 20+ episodes of this anime Im yet to see a single redeeming quality out of the 3 stooges, the Pope was basically right (maybe a tad fanatical ) when he called them a bunch of morons and called malty a bitch that was too busy conspiring to even notice.
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Old 2022-04-08, 18:42   Link #58
BWTraveller
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I mean I'm sure there are traits that they should be aspiring to or traits associated with their weapons. But like... the heroes are still nowhere close to really coming around. And Naofumi cleaning up their messes is probably keeping them from the rock bottom they have to reach to really want to improve. As they are now they're basically irredeemable.
No argument on that point.
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Old 2022-04-09, 09:08   Link #59
Frontier
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I have never read the novels so I dont know if its more nuanced there, but in the 20+ episodes of this anime Im yet to see a single redeeming quality out of the 3 stooges, the Pope was basically right (maybe a tad fanatical ) when he called them a bunch of morons and called malty a bitch that was too busy conspiring to even notice.
Well, Ren at least in season 1 seemed open to Naofumi's criticism and seemed more willing to listen to him.
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Old 2022-04-09, 09:13   Link #60
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Their biggest issue is that, early on, they had a reason to be cocky assholes. They had OP weapons, and they were able to quickly min/max their skills and absolutely trash everything that came their way, so why change? Naofumi was only getting things done because he would be in the right place at the right time, or he'd protect people instead of fight, etc.

However, once Glass showed up (and by extension, the Pope) and their skills stopped being useful while Naofumi's "jack of all trades" approach to the skill tree showed itself to be optimal... they didn't change. Normally a min/maxer like them would go and grind all those skills once they realized they weren't useless, but instead they just became tropes instead of advancing as characters.
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