High School DxD Light Novel - Character power-ups, match-ups, and ratings

[syzorst]

Originally Posted by XFire

Okay? You implied True DxD was only now superior to DxD L, when it always was.

Vidar started out equal to Thor and then got a massive power boost that took him from one sided beat down to even match for Issei. Crom I'll give you, but there's no indication Azi is even as strong as Vidar, much less superior. And Vali was losing the fight with Crom.

As for "someone on Ddraig's level", yeah, in the same way Bedeze is on the "same level" as Diehauser Belial maybe. Issei beat someone of equal or greater strength to Azi in Apophis, and Vidar put up more of a fight than him.

Again, True DxD is significantly superior to Pseudo, which pre-Amirita was roughly equal to DxD L. True DxD being superior to L isn't even a debate.

Also, for this in particular....



The point is that the time limit is part of the general evaluation. Ddraig didn't just ignore the giant disclaimer of "can only maintain for short period" when evaluating the power of the two forms. Meaning that despite that weakness existing, DxD L only slightly edged out Pseudo DxD. Now that the weakness has been removed, the "general" evaluation of Pseudo would obviously go up. Hence, Pseudo is greater than L at this point.

Back in Volume 20 True DxD G and DxD L was comparable. It's just DxD G gave a greater power boost since Issei was at Ultimate Devil class at the jump. A jump from Ultimate Devil Class to Heavenly Dragon class is a massive jump compared to God class jumping to Heavenly Dragon class.

Vidar didn't get a massive buff once he worn the armor. He was already God class to begin with and was matching with a nerfed version of DxD. Crom had a slight edge against Vali but that's mainly because of his raw power. It's not like Crom was stomping Vali. Vali was giving Crom a hard time as well.

Time limit wasn't mentioned. Vali was just stronger than Psuedo DxD overall. If time limit was a factor than Issei or Ddraig would have mentioned it like they did when they made the comparison if Issei could fight Crom back in vol. 23.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by syzorst

Back in Volume 20 True DxD G and DxD L was comparable. It's just DxD G gave a greater power boost since Issei was at Ultimate Devil class at the jump. A jump from Ultimate Devil Class to Heavenly Dragon class is a massive jump compared to God class jumping to Heavenly Dragon class.

No, they weren't. No comparison of the two was made until Pseudo DxD, explicitly a large downgrade of True, was in play. DxD L isn't on the same level as True.

Originally Posted by syzorst

Vidar didn't get a massive buff once he worn the armor. He was already God class to begin with and was matching with a nerfed version of DxD. Crom had a slight edge against Vali but that's mainly because of his raw power. It's not like Crom was stomping Vali. Vali was giving Crom a hard time as well.

"Didn't get a massive buff"

Went from being toyed with by Azi to overpowering him.

No.

Originally Posted by syzorst

Time limit wasn't mentioned. Vali was just stronger than Psuedo DxD overall. If time limit was a factor than Issei or Ddraig would have mentioned it like they did when they made the comparison if Issei could fight Crom back in vol. 23.

"Overall" meaning including all factors. The time limit is one of those factors. Unless you think that they just ignored the massive weakness when evaluating the form. In a volume where a time limit on a form decides the outcome of the match.

[syzorst]

Originally Posted by XFire

No, they weren't. No comparison of the two was made until Pseudo DxD, explicitly a large downgrade of True, was in play. DxD L isn't on the same level as True.



"Didn't get a massive buff"

Went from being toyed with by Azi to overpowering him.

No.



"Overall" meaning including all factors. The time limit is one of those factors. Unless you think that they just ignored the massive weakness when evaluating the form. In a volume where a time limit on a form decides the outcome of the match.

The comparison is made based on their performance against Azi and Apophis. Both of whom were Heavenly Dragon class. It took the same amount of effort to beat them.

I was referring to Vidar but even so the buff that Vali got wasn't as massive. The only time Vali got toyed with was when he was fighting in BxB for most of the fight. His BxB was only Maou class so obviously Azi could play with him.

The time limit is just one factor but they were talking about overall. Even if there was no time limit, Psuedo DxD was inferior to DxD L in general. That was the point to what Ddraig and Issei was talking about.

[Rayzer]

Originally Posted by TheWu8128

Why does her retiring more people on Issei team mean she did well. The only way to win that game was to eliminate the King. Issei team pretty much sarcificed pieces just so Issei wouldn't have to fight certain opponents. Retiring more people didn't mean much in that particular match.

So Bova and Roygun were sacrificed even though they were ambushed? Was Grayfia sacrificed as well since she was fighting the enemy's king?

[The Infinite Dream]

Ddraig didnt see Vali fight Azi so how could he compare anything from those interactions. The comparison is based off of tournament fights and what Ddraig has seen from both Pseudo DxD and DxD L. Why would he even compare a form Issei cant even use yet.

[KnightShade]

True DXD G is only verifiable superior to DXD L in Raw Power based on feats. Overall the forms are roughly equal with all factors considered based on feats.

Crom Crouch V fully equipped Vidar. Who wins?

[The Infinite Dream]

Again True DxD has never been compared to DxD L. Only pseudo has why would Ddraig compare a form Issei cant even use.

[KnightShade]

Originally Posted by The Infinite Dream

Again True DxD has never been compared to DxD L. Only pseudo has why would Ddraig compare a form Issei cant even use.

Not talking about draigs comparison. Its never been compared in story. Out of story most of the forum agreed that they were equal based on feats.

[syzorst]

Originally Posted by Rayzer

So Bova and Roygun were sacrificed even though they were ambushed? Was Grayfia sacrificed as well since she was fighting the enemy's king?

Bova and Roygun being ambushed was a set back but it didn't matter. Grayfia was fighting Rias while Issei was focus on fighting Kiba. And yes, Rias team performed better against Vali team. While you're talking about retirements. Rias Team only lost Valerie against Vali but against Issei team, tje people who were retired was Kiba, Gasper, Rias, Lint and Valerie. So Rias lost multiple people. Rias gave up against Vali but she was actually retired against Issei.

[The Infinite Dream]

Ddraig already compared Pseudo to DxD L and stated there was parts where he was stronger. So its highly unlikely DxD L beats out True dxd on every aspect but raw power.

[KnightShade]

Originally Posted by The Infinite Dream

Ddraig already compared Pseudo to DxD L and stated there was parts where he was stronger. So its highly unlikely DxD L beats out True dxd on every aspect but raw power.

No one said DxD L outright beats DxD G in all aspects beside power; it's been said that they are about even based on feats. Draig still concluded that pseudo is weaker anyway, how much so is up for interpretation.

edit - to clarify the only thing we know for sure is that G is superior to L is raw power. Other aspects are currently unknown, though it would be fair to say L has the edge in speed.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by syzorst

The comparison is made based on their performance against Azi and Apophis. Both of whom were Heavenly Dragon class. It took the same amount of effort to beat them.

I was referring to Vidar but even so the buff that Vali got wasn't as massive. The only time Vali got toyed with was when he was fighting in BxB for most of the fight. His BxB was only Maou class so obviously Azi could play with him.

The time limit is just one factor but they were talking about overall. Even if there was no time limit, Psuedo DxD was inferior to DxD L in general. That was the point to what Ddraig and Issei was talking about.

There is zero indication of their relative power levels, and this assumption contradicts actual statements made later on and is thus invalid.

He burned out his full ability to use EJOD in a single move while Azi was still holding back. It couldnt block more than one attack.

Again, no. "Overall" as in all things considered, as in taking into account the time limit as well, then DxD L is slightly better than Pseudo. You are talking as if Ddraig just ignored it completely and evaluated it on everything except the major weakness of the form.

[The Infinite Dream]

Ddraig concluded that both forms were almost equal with Valis form being better overall. Not to mention Pseudo DxD is dramatically nerfed compared to true dxd. So how would DxD L thats comparable to Pseudo DxD be anywhere close to True DxD that harbors the actual Infinite?

“At that time, you awakened the armour with my power, and you can continue to use that form. But, its power has been decreased by a great extent. However, there is also room for improvement.”

[XFire]

Anyway, I checked and this is actually the third time we've had this exact discussion, so I'm out. Peace and goodwill and all that.

[KnightShade]

@Infinite

Spoiler for draigs exact words in v24:

[Although there are aspects where you wouldn’t be inferior to Vali, Vali seems to be stronger overall.]

To what degree is unknown. But to me when issei himself says that Vali's maouification 'seems like it’s even stronger' than his own dragon deification, that hardly seems like a slight advantage when comparing Pseudo DxD G to DxD L. Draig Himself doesn't say that those aspects are better for Issei, but that they aren't inferior which could mean of the same level or in the same ball park but not necessarily in issei's favor.

To answer your question, it's because raw power isn't the only factor to consider here. Despite the alleged gap in power base, the two forms have comparable feats against heavenly dragon tier opponents. If anything DxD L has more feats against said opponents considering that vali has fought crom as well as azi dahaka.

[The Infinite Dream]

Again Pseudo DxD is a dramatically nerfed form yet its still comparable with DxD L that hasnt been nerfed. So what makes you believe DxD L is comparable to True DxD that is far more superior to Pseudo DxD?

-Rias Balor form
-Nyx
-Vidar
- Apophis
-Typhoon


-Azi
-Crom (didnt win)

Sorry feats a lone goes to Pseudo DxD if we're going to count transcendental beings.


Issei cant even figure out his own power levels. Hes pretty much Ichigo Kurosaki.

[KnightShade]

see my edit.

And no, dont pull the 'Issei cant powerscale' card just because his own estimations dont suit your argument. it's been proven time and again that issei is a reliable narrator when it comes to these things.

Edit- you're funny if you think the likes of nyx, typhon and balor form rias are on par with crom crouch and azi dahaka. Typhon (who's barely above fenrir, the same fenrir who had the upper hand against balor form rias at just 80% full power) got owned by draig, who was still stalemated by an injured crom. I'm not even going mention why putting nyx on that level is daft. I'll give you vidar and barely at that.

[The Infinite Dream]

He literally cant even tell his own power level in Shin 1 this isnt about suiting my arguement. He still has to ask ddraig.

[The Infinite Dream]

Barely the dudes equal top 10s without his artificial sacred gear lol.
Nyx is a god is she not?
Typhoon is stronger than 80% Fenrir. Theyre the same strength when Fenrir is 100% which theyre also top 10s
Balor form is at super devil level and has improved it since volume 24?
We're talking feats here bruh. Even without Apophis added since he did that in true dxd hes taken down two top 10s

[KnightShade]

^

Spoiler for context:

There was a system to rank a Devil’s power… Low-class Devil, Middle-class Devil, High-class devil, Ultimate-class Devil, Maou-class Devil, and Transcendental-level… I wonder what was my current power level? The Devil government assessed me as a High-class Devil level though.

Given the context of his question and draigs reply, clearly issei has an idea of what ballpark he is in. Notice draig accesses him based on forms and not overall.