Romance in Code Geass (Take 3)

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Syphen

I was referring to S1.

My mistake. You should have made that clear, though. Still, she had an active role because the Gawain is a two-seater, then took it upon herself to simply drown our beloved Jeremiah.

Originally Posted by Syphen

Acting like himself around her is significant, because Lelouch lives behind a mask. The moments of his introspection are limited to planning and reacting, so we would be want of knowing what he was like without C.C.'s existence.

He'd be dead, so it wouldn't really matter. In any case, that doesn't lend itself all that well to romance. She is someone who from the beginning has inserted herself into his life. He more or less can't hide things from her.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Syphen

C.C.'s role didn't extend very far in a literal sense, although if you recall, she is present at nearly every major encounter and takes an active role in attacking the Sigfried as well as in rescuing/reviving Lelouch. C.C.'s primary purpose is to allow us to see Lelouch through a different lens. Lelouch acted differently around her than any other character and this in itself makes her more then a mere minor character. With her presence, she became a means for Lelouch to develop his character and a lens for us to see it.

Being present in every major encounter does not make her a major character, Tamaki was also around for alot of the series. Was he a major character?

She became a means for which, I'd assume, Lelouch could learn more about Geass and possibly Marianne and Charles. Which actually became unrealised. But again, C.C's relevance was only towards one part of the plot which was geass, outside that the writers kept her involvement to a minimum. Lelouch did not act differently around her, he acts differently mostly around Nunally. There are scenes that does show through though but with C.C and others as well they mostly went nowhere. Having an impact on one thing does not constitute as a major character.

[youngde]

Well, ChiChi was the one that told Lelouch to depend on a friend, which led to him meeting and 'being betrayed' by Suzaku, which led to his 'confession' being played to the BKs, which basically led to the rest of the series. So C.C. was significant for that reason (has little to nothing to do w/ romantic development though and one could almost consider ChiChi and C.C. separate characters).

[Narona]

Originally Posted by youngde

Well, ChiChi was the one that told Lelouch to depend on a friend, which led to him meeting and 'being betrayed' by Suzaku, which led to his 'confession' being played to the BKs, which basically led to the rest of the series. So C.C. was significant for that reason (has little to nothing to do w/ romantic development though and one could almost consider ChiChi and C.C. separate characters).

Don't forget the band aid :O I hope we will get an explanation about the choice of the hand/finger one day. Maybe it's nothing romantic but maybe it is. All in all, i think it had a meaning.

[Micante]

Originally Posted by youngde

Well, ChiChi was the one that told Lelouch to depend on a friend, which led to him meeting and 'being betrayed' by Suzaku, which led to his 'confession' being played to the BKs, which basically led to the rest of the series. So C.C. was significant for that reason (has little to nothing to do w/ romantic development though and one could almost consider ChiChi and C.C. separate characters).

Not really... this makes her more of a catalyst/plot device. In anime, the importance of a character is usually determined by direct actions instead of consequences of actions.

I'm a huge fan of C.C., but it's this kind of argument that can prove Clovis and the likes are all key characters.

[Lie]

Originally Posted by Micante

I'm a huge fan of C.C., but it's this kind of argument that can prove Clovis and the likes are all key characters.

The problem is R2 itself. It forgot C.C. over and over, and its not hard to say that she is a secondary character in R2. Her effects on the plot are limited to plot devices. She was a plot device for Lelouch and Suzaku, a plot device again later for Suzaku and Lelouch to confront Charles. The times she has ever been able to take action and have an impact on the plot have been Episode 7 (did nothing), Episode 15 (Lelouch did something, she almost got herself killed) and Episode 24 (stopped Kallen). Aside from that she's had no roles that have not simply been plot devices. The entire existance of CChi wastes her character, she's not even really present in the first half of the show until episode 15.
Season 1 she is a main character.
Season 2 she is a secondary character and plot device.

This plot device problem isn't limited to her character, Shirley was also used as a plot device with her death. It started the chain of events that led to the betrayal. To the best of my knowledge, only Kallen was never used as a plot device to move Lelouch in some direction in R2. Episode 7 is an open decision on her part to find him and move him to return, not drive the plot in some arbitrary new direction. Shirley and the Student Council with being conveniently present at the school were a far larger plot device. Kallen can argued to have been a deus ex machina in saving him, but that isn't limited to her. Rolo was also nothing more than plot device after plot device, his character was also secondary. Even Nunally was at a point in time a plot device, Episode 6 and 18.

Originally Posted by Narona

Don't forget the band aid :O I hope we will get an explanation about the choice of the hand/finger one day. Maybe it's nothing romantic but maybe it is. All in all, i think it had a meaning.

How about this explanation: No one would have made much notice of it if the spoiler writer hadn't misinterpreted the band-aid for a ring. There is nothing to say that it was anything aside from coincidence. Not to mention that the implication is worse than a siscon, because its taking advantage of what would be an ignorant ten year old girl.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Micante

Not really... this makes her more of a catalyst/plot device. In anime, the importance of a character is usually determined by direct actions instead of consequences of actions.

I'm a huge fan of C.C., but it's this kind of argument that can prove Clovis and the likes are all key characters.

Yup, on that point you're right.

And what do you think of the band aid? I hope we will get an explanation, it's on my list of unanswered things about c.c..

[Micante]

Originally Posted by Narona

Yup, on that point you're right.

And what do you think of the band aid? I hope we will get an explanation, it's on my list of unanswered things about c.c..

BTW, Lie in case of you replied to me, you're in my ignore list, so don't waste your time.

Well... C.C. possibly may have mistaken it for a romantic thing at the time, but Lelouch, being the logical romantically dense demonlord that he was, merely saw himself as putting a band aid on the finger that was bleeding.

As for what the writers why the writers decided to make that particular finger bleed, it was most likely fanservice like the Kallen scenes so that C.C.XLulu fans wouldn't feel completely unsatisfied with the ending.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Narona

Yup, on that point you're right.

And what do you think of the band aid? I hope we will get an explanation, it's on my list of unanswered things about c.c..

BTW, Lie in case of you replied to me, you're in my ignore list, so don't waste your time.

You know, Narona, this is a forum for discussion. If you do not like someone's opinions then you can just put them on ignore list or just not pay attention to their posts but you do not really have to antagonize them. You said it yourself, all opinions are equal, by openly telling someone not to waste their time though you are implying that their opinion is worthless or beneath notice.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

You know, Narona, this is a forum for discussion. If you do not like someone's opinions then you can just put them on ignore list or just not pay attention to their posts but you do not really have to antagonize them. You said it yourself, all opinions are equal, by openly telling someone not to waste their time though you are implying that their opinion is worthless or beneath notice.

You're right mister, I deleted it

Originally Posted by Micante

Well... C.C. possibly may have mistaken it for a romantic thing at the time, but Lelouch, being the logical romantically dense demonlord that he was, merely saw himself as putting a band aid on the finger that was bleeding.

As for what the writers why the writers decided to make that particular finger bleed, it was most likely fanservice like the Kallen scenes so that C.C.XLulu fans wouldn't feel completely unsatisfied with the ending.

Maybe, but don't forget that she had the mind of a 10 years old girl, so I wonder if she really mistook it for a romantic thing. However it's possible that she saw that "kind of things" when she was a slave.

I don't think that the kallenXLelouch scene were fanservice, nor that the band aid was. I prefer to think that it has a meaning, maybe not only about the romance plot but a meaning

[Micante]

Originally Posted by Narona

I don't think that the kallenXLelouch scene were fanservice, nor that the band aid was. I prefer to think that it was a meaning, maybe not only about the romance plot but a meaning

Perhaps you're right about it having a meaning, but I'm still convinced none of the staff of Code Geass cared what that meaning was. :O

It's like fishing with a hook without any bait and seeing how many fish would get into the mentality that there's actually bait there and use their own minds to create a bait and then bite on it.

[Asleep]

Originally Posted by Micante

Well... C.C. possibly may have mistaken it for a romantic thing at the time, but Lelouch, being the logical romantically dense demonlord that he was, merely saw himself as putting a band aid on the finger that was bleeding.

As for what the writers why the writers decided to make that particular finger bleed, it was most likely fanservice like the Kallen scenes so that C.C.XLulu fans wouldn't feel completely unsatisfied with the ending.

She couldn't have mistaken it for something romantic Weren't there rumors at the time that C.C. thinks the band-aid was the ring Lelouch was supposed to give her? But in ep 19 she knows it wasn't a ring, and that it was something used to heal people.

If it was just fanservice, it was really bad. All the LxK scenes amounted to the kiss in 22 but it seems like they didn't go anywhere with the LxC scenes...(unless you think Lelouch is alive of course ) They could have done something else! Didn't have to raise our hopes

[kir44n]

Well, heres the thing about the ring finger. Under what cultural lense are we supposed to be looking at this through? Not all cultures have the same "ring finger", and especially not 600-ish years ago (which is the mind frame ChiChi was in). So we don't really have to much information to run on with this. Sure, if they gave it the modern japanese understanding of the ring finger, it can work. If ChiChi is originally from a country that did so, then it could work (although thats a huge can of worms right there. If she sealed herself to her mindframe from 600 years ago, what languages does she know? or does this imply she's from japan? But even thats iffy because languages suffer all sorts of changes due to time O_o) . But if those factors aren't true....

Basically, I'm not sure we're given enough information to really say where the ring finger band aid is going or coming from. We can speculate, but its kinda hard to make headway on this.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by kir44n

Well, heres the thing about the ring finger. Under what cultural lense are we supposed to be looking at this through? Not all cultures have the same "ring finger", and especially not 600-ish years ago (which is the mind frame ChiChi was in). So we don't really have to much information to run on with this. Sure, if they gave it the modern japanese understanding of the ring finger, it can work. If ChiChi is originally from a country that did so, then it could work (although thats a huge can of worms right there. If she sealed herself to her mindframe from 600 years ago, what languages does she know? or does this imply she's from japan? But even thats iffy because languages suffer all sorts of changes due to time O_o) . But if those factors aren't true....

Basically, I'm not sure we're given enough information to really say where the ring finger band aid is going or coming from. We can speculate, but its kinda hard to make headway on this.

That cultural thing exists in code geass, as you can see in the ending Villetta got a Wedding ring on that particular finger Yeah I know I am a bit offtopic XD

Originally Posted by Micante

Perhaps you're right about it having a meaning, but I'm still convinced none of the staff of Code Geass cared what that meaning was. :O

It's like fishing with a hook without any bait and seeing how many fish would get into the mentality that there's actually bait there and use their own minds to create a bait and then bite on it.

rofl. Well, we have to agree to disagree then, but what does Laharl think about that?

[youngde]

Originally Posted by kir44n

Well, heres the thing about the ring finger. Under what cultural lense are we supposed to be looking at this through? Not all cultures have the same "ring finger", and especially not 600-ish years ago (which is the mind frame ChiChi was in). So we don't really have to much information to run on with this. Sure, if they gave it the modern japanese understanding of the ring finger, it can work. If ChiChi is originally from a country that did so, then it could work (although thats a huge can of worms right there. If she sealed herself to her mindframe from 600 years ago, what languages does she know? or does this imply she's from japan? But even thats iffy because languages suffer all sorts of changes due to time O_o) . But if those factors aren't true....

Basically, I'm not sure we're given enough information to really say where the ring finger band aid is going or coming from. We can speculate, but its kinda hard to make headway on this.

Well, by the way ChiChi was looking at it later, I would assume that the writters weren't really thinking that 600 years ago in ChiChi-land they didn't have engagement/wedding rings. But then, that scene always struck me more as a little bit of a tease since, even if there was a CluClu ending, I didn't see them engaged/married in the end.

[Micante]

Originally Posted by Asleep

She couldn't have mistaken it for something romantic Weren't there rumors at the time that C.C. thinks the band-aid was the ring Lelouch was supposed to give her? But in ep 19 she knows it wasn't a ring, and that it was something used to heal people.

If it was just fanservice, it was really bad. All the LxK scenes amounted to the kiss in 22 but it seems like they didn't go anywhere with the LxC scenes...(unless you think Lelouch is alive of course ) They could have done something else! Didn't have to raise our hopes

Well... there were those scenes of Lelouch and C.C. when Lelouch was going through with the Zero Requiem. Although I'm not sure how the band-aid thing works. If they went anywhere, they would have displeased the apart of the fanbase. Here's probably what happened:

Taniguchi: Lelouch goes with x!
Okuochi: No way! Lelouch will be ending up with y!
Taniguchi: I'm the director, OBEY ME!
Okuochi: You need me and you know it!
Taniguchi: ...
Okuochi: ...
*Five Episodes Later*
Okuochi: I'm not going to work with this and you can't make me!
Taniguchi: Fine... geez. We'll compromise and screw over all the fans.

Originally Posted by kir44n

Well, heres the thing about the ring finger. Under what cultural lense are we supposed to be looking at this through? Not all cultures have the same "ring finger", and especially not 600-ish years ago (which is the mind frame ChiChi was in). So we don't really have to much information to run on with this. Sure, if they gave it the modern japanese understanding of the ring finger, it can work. If ChiChi is originally from a country that did so, then it could work (although thats a huge can of worms right there. If she sealed herself to her mindframe from 600 years ago, what languages does she know? or does this imply she's from japan? But even thats iffy because languages suffer all sorts of changes due to time O_o) . But if those factors aren't true....

Basically, I'm not sure we're given enough information to really say where the ring finger band aid is going or coming from. We can speculate, but its kinda hard to make headway on this.

Well, rule of anime is, everyone speaks Japanese.

You seem to delve quite deeply into entertainment... you weren't the same person that calculated Kain's jumping air velocity and the impossibilities of him breaking the laws of physics in Final Fantasy IV, were you!?

Could you also be the one that brought up the infinite recurssion theory for the Item World-Item-Item World-Item relationship in Disgaea!?

[youngde]

Originally Posted by Micante

Well, rule of anime is, everyone speaks Japanese.

I've been wondering, is English still called English in the CG world, or is it called Britannian? I would assume at the very least Lelouch, Suzaku, C.C. and Kallen would have to fluent in both in order to get by (Lelouch and Kallen would even need to pull it off w/o much of an accent). It just never made sense to me that an invader would adopt the conquered country's native tonge.

[Asleep]

Originally Posted by Micante

Well... there were those scenes of Lelouch and C.C. when Lelouch was going through with the Zero Requiem. Although I'm not sure how the band-aid thing works. If they went anywhere, they would have displeased the apart of the fanbase. Here's probably what happened:

No I meant when C.C. interrupted Kallen (in the 9th ep was it?) with the Tabasco, eventually, Kallen kissed Lelouch. Nothing came from the interruption in ep 24 I suppose they didn't have enough time but still...

[kir44n]

The only reason I've delved deeply into this particular matter is because of how fairly deep other matters of Code Geass are developed. This show has a surprising amount of depth to it's backstory and understanding of things. I would just find it peculiar for that particular scene to be lacking such depth. Basically, if the same yardstick can't be applied to most of the scenes are supposed to find "deeper meaning" in (such as interpreting the band-aid as a ring), it sort of defies the purpose of having that yardstick, doesn't it?

I find your speculation that Taniguchi & Okouichi might have been shipping for different pairings highly amusing though XD. Just think......we weren't trolled in the end for giggles, but because Taniguchi & Okouichi had their own private shipping wars for the previous 2 years, and this was the result of a peace treaty XD

[Micante]

Originally Posted by youngde

I've been wondering, is English still called English in the CG world, or is it called Britannian? I would assume at the very least Lelouch, Suzaku, C.C. and Kallen would have to fluent in both in order to get by (Lelouch and Kallen would even need to pull it off w/o much of an accent). It just never made sense to me that an invader would adopt the conquered country's native tonge.

I've been waiting for this! You've played right into my hands, now all the conditions are cleared in order for me to do THIS:

Originally Posted by Narona

rofl. Well, we have to agree to disagree then, but what does Laharl think about that?

Well, Laharl does not like to get involved in affairs involving well-endowed women, so he stays far away from Lelouch's love-life. However, the staff of Code Geass had no choice but to live in the present and not think about the past, for if they didn't, they would have had to play the The Punishment Game.

Oh yeah, youngde. This is anime, the creators and the majority of the viewers don't care about details like that >.<.