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View Poll Results: Nisemonogatari - Episode 02 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 44 | 36.67% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 30 | 25.00% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 29 | 24.17% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 9 | 7.50% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 3 | 2.50% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 1 | 0.83% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 2 | 1.67% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 1 | 0.83% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 1 | 0.83% | |
Voters: 120. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-01-15, 13:16 | Link #61 | |
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I do agree with you, though, that the Karen OP was indeed very impressive. That was a nice treat this week. Rather than simply reiterating much of what Reckoner wrote, which is very close to my own take on this episode, I've decided that I'm going to ask folks familiar with the Nise novel some questions so that I can properly adjust my expectations for this series. Going into Nise, this is what shaped my expectations: 1) The blurb in the Winter 2012 season preview for it. This made it clear it would focus a lot on Araragi's sisters. 2) The PV. This made it clear it would have better visuals than Bake (which it has successfully delivered to its credit) and also more fanservice than Bake. So, going into Nise, I was basically thinking: Bake + Better visuals + More fanservice + Much more focus on Araragi's sisters = Nise That's what I came in expecting. However, Nise hasn't quite matched those expectations. While Bake was always character and dialogue-driven, it did have actual story arcs. It did have a plot, and it wasn't what I would consider a slice of life show, or a show that was pure ecchi. There were serious problems that had to be solved, and some real conflicts took place. These conflicts/plots weren't the main reason I watched Bake, but I felt that they added to the sense of purposefulness that permeated the show. Bake was slow-paced but it did feel like character and plot development of lasting relevance was steadily occurring. Honestly, I'm not getting that feeling with Nise so far. It was no big deal after just one episode, but after two, I was hoping we'd have more plot than just some vague hints of problems going on at the school that Araragi's sisters attend. So, with all of this being said, here's my questions for fans here who have read the Nise novels: Does Nise have a plot to it? Is there an actual conflict? Another supernatural threat of sorts for Araragi to grapple with, perhaps? Or is this more of a pure, straight-up ecchi romcom where we just watch Araragi go from one sexually tense situation to the next to the next to the next? I'm not saying that Nise is necessarily bad if that is what it is, but if that is what it is, I'd like to know that now so I can adjust my expectations going forward. Thanks in advance to anybody that can answer my questions here.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2012-01-15 at 13:27. |
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2012-01-15, 13:38 | Link #62 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
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The same as Bake, except Nisio is juggling all the girls at the same time. |
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2012-01-15, 13:46 | Link #63 | |
Pretentious moe scholar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 37
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The first time my reaction was pretty much the same as yours "That's not Nadeko! Nadeko is supposed to be shy!" I didn't have any of that the second time I watched. Instead, she felt like the same Nadeko I remember from season one, trying to appeal to Koyomi in a clandestine fashion because she's too shy to use a head on approach. Still trying to figure out what made the difference, though if I had to guess I noticed the subtleties in her voice and mannerisms more second time around. (Also, for some reason season one left me wondering if Nadeko is a closet exhibitionist.)
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2012-01-15, 13:58 | Link #64 |
simp for Lyria
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This episode was even funner than the last, but not quiiiite as interesting. I still find the dialogue with Mayoi to be the best thing that's happened in the series so far, since it felt as if there was some slight char development or resolve from Araragi. I didn't feel any of that in this episode, but that by no means makes this a bad episode. In Bake, Hitagi got her own episode(12), so it's nice to see Nadeko[, Mayoi] and Kanbaru getting that treatment here, w/o any reason other than fanservice, even though it was only half-ish an episode per char. Esp Kanbaru. I'm not too big on seiryuus, but Miyuki Sawashiro's way of slightly breathing before/during/after her dialogue REALLY emphasizes the sexuality of Kanbaru's char =03.
Also, seeing Araragi flipping, grabbing Karen's feet from upside-down in mid-air and landing REALLY makes me anticipate that Kize(?) movie. Can't wait to see him at his full vampire strength .
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2012-01-15, 14:18 | Link #65 | ||
Senior Member
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Thanks for the advice all the same. Quote:
A pure, straight up ecchi romcom would be something like R-15. Bake had a much different overall feel than that.
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2012-01-15, 15:18 | Link #66 |
Kana Hanazawa ♥
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: France
Age: 37
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The story arcs in Bakemonogatari were only two to three episodes long, it makes sense the plot moved faster in those arcs. Karen Bee, on the other hand, will be five episodes long (or is six?) and therefore can afford to spend time on previously introduced girls while hinting at what the main plot is going to be. It makes for a good build-up.
Tsubasa cat, also five episodes long, followed a similar structure. There's really not that much difference between the first two episodes of Tsubasa Cat and the the first two episodes of Nise if you compare them. It might be too early to complain. I think the other reason the harem aspect of the series is more obvious in Nise is that Meme is not there anymore (I miss the guy, by the way). One, because he was the only other male character in this series and that alone made it appear a little less harem-ish; and two, because his presence was a constant reminder of the supernatural aspect of the show. Now the anime features only one boy surrounded by half a dozen girls. I'm not surprised people feel the series has changed. I personally don't think it has, though. I've always seen Bakemonogatari has a smart and atypical romcom with supernatural elements, and not the other way around. That may be the key difference between those who are loving Nise and those who are disliking it.
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2012-01-15, 15:34 | Link #69 |
Banned
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@DanielE:finally, someone else shares my pain
As for equating Nisemono with ecchi... well, you guys need to watch one or two ecchi shows without plot or character development first. In these first two episode, there is development as well as bits and pieces of what will probably be the arc's storyline, you just need to get over your visual overload |
2012-01-15, 15:53 | Link #70 |
Pedestrian
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Sweden
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You'll have a hard time finding anyone who disagrees when you say Nisemonogatari is weak compared to Bakemonogatari. I'm puzzled that they decided to animate these books at all. Hopefully it won't scare away potential viewers from Kizumonogatari when the movie comes out, because that book blows everything else in the series out of the water.
Someone once described Nisemonogatari as "Koyomi's victory lap", and it really is just that. Taking the trophy tour after gathering his harem. Don't expect plot and you should be fine.
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2012-01-15, 16:10 | Link #71 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
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This tertium non datur is the flaw in your logic.
Araragi meets with a girl. Sexual jokes. Things important to the plot. Repeat. That's how you can have both. It is very simple. Quote:
I stated it many times already, but I repeat: it is true that there is more fanservice in Nise than in Bake. Your senses are not deceiving you. On the other hand it's not like this was unknown territory for the series. I don't complain because I know the story already, but anyway I'm a big fan of Hanekawa too |
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2012-01-15, 18:53 | Link #72 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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On a quasi-related note, I do want to ask novel readers to try to limit the hints given in this thread, even in response to criticism. It's somewhat useful to help people understand what they should expect, but by the same token you're also ruining a bit of the surprise. Questions directed to novel readers should probably go to the novel thread, or we should create a spoiler & speculation thread for novel readers.
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2012-01-15, 18:56 | Link #73 | |
Princess or Plunderer?
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
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2012-01-15, 20:59 | Link #75 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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I felt slightly less engaged this episode as well. That was largely due to Kanbaru's section. That's why confirmation of this:
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I began to feel this way as the discussion progressed regarding Hitagi's section last episode, but at this point I'm really strongly feeling the idea that "you will see the plot in these episodes once the arc is over". I don't know whether this will turn out to be a weakness or a strength, but it is now directly clear in the audience experience how there are structural differences between Nisemonogatari and Bakemonogatari. As far as the seemingly common novel-reader's perspective that "Nisemonogatari is the weakest, most fan-service heavy, or undirected part of the series", I still protest that we should not be approaching this sequel as if it is devoid of substance entirely. "Araragi's victory lap", "Nishio messing around" or not, this season should still contain at least a minimum core narrative which should be more than adequate to meet, as fans coming in from Bakemonogatari, our expectations. Quote:
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As Johnny mentioned, there is actually a Bakemonogatari doujin which is, as far as I can tell, a more or less direct expansion of that sequence with Nadeko in the novel. It is most certainly porn and not for the eyes of children, but in truth it seems to be more brilliant/effective as a humour piece (based on the scene as it is portrayed in the novel) than as jackoff material. Google "bakemonogatari anoosk" if you are interested; alternatively, if leaving pointers to that sort of material is prohibited I will edit this post and people can direct their inquiries to me by PM. Neither Karen's OP nor Claris' ED match up to Bake's best stuff last season, for me, musically (Staple Stable, Kimi ga Shiranai Monogatari, and Renai Circulation being the ones I'd call notable). I'm slightly concerned, now, whether Nisemonogatari will match up. If we're lucky SHAFT will be up to animating full separate OPs for each of the heroines, but in the worst case we'll have just one further chance with Tsukihi's opening. The animation has been pure eyecandy though. Good stuff. Last edited by Sol Falling; 2012-01-15 at 21:29. |
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2012-01-15, 21:28 | Link #80 | ||||
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There wasn't a flaw in my logic.
I used the word "pure" in front of "straight-up ecchi romcom" for a reason. Pure as in "100%". Pure as in "this is all it is". Bake was more than a 100% ecchi romcom. What I was asking is if Nise would be more than that as well. After discussing this with you, I take the answer to that to be "yes", but that I'll need to wait for it. Fair enough. Quote:
But I'll trust you that some plot-relevant dialogue and details were given out in this episode, but that I'll need to rewatch after the fact in order to determine that. Thanks for the info. Quote:
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So, for me, the supernatural elements of Bake were just as important as the supernatural elements of Haruhi were, and that's pretty important of course. So in fairness it could be that those elements weren't as important as I thought they were.
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