(L) Shokugeki no Soma [Manga]

[DragonOsman]

Senzaemon's plan was manipulative and made everyone in the Jewels Generation fodder for Erina, but I don't think he's that bad. Sure, using all of those students as stepping stones and sacrifices is pretty bad, but if you look at what happened I'd say it's fine. And besides, Senzaemon is much better than Azami and Mana.

Originally Posted by Endscape

Eh, in terms if being manipulative this is hardly anything to get mad at.

This is what I'm thinking too.

Originally Posted by Endscape

The implication is that he went a lot further than he would have normally, such as arranging for Hayama to be allowed into the country (how evil!) and attend the school.

Yeah. He recruited more talents than Tootsuki usually does.

[ImperialFlameGod8190]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

Senzaemon's plan was manipulative and made everyone in the Jewels Generation fodder for Erina, but I don't think he's that bad. Sure, using all of those students as stepping stones and sacrifices is pretty bad, but if you look at what happened I'd say it's fine. And besides, Senzaemon is much better than Azami and Mana.

I respectfully disagree with that. His actions are every bit as selfish as those of Azami

[Tyrant Ruler]

well senzaemon did truly manipulated the whole students in favor to save not only his daughter but grand daughter. now certainly some students would be piss cause it looks like the only got in cause of their abilities strictly for erina and be besten by her that kind of suck. but lt isn't that bad cause it's not like these student can't be stronger than her soma is basically doing both Azami's a and gramps job lol being the father and the man (that was a little joke). jokes aside this does paints the nakiri family in general to be either full on manipulative jerks or semi jerks, at the end it only benefits them personally I think his on the same boat as azami or mana less extreme but still manipulative. the nakiri family is jerks for me

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190

I respectfully disagree with that. His actions are every bit as selfish as those of Azami

Seriously? At least Senzaemon didn't go around trying to destroy people's dorms, clubs or restaraunts, or pull underhanded stuff like wrecking people's research.

[shanimebib]

Three generations of garbage runs in Erina's blood. "Avoid" would be the only word I could suggest.

I feel bad for Souma. If it wasn't for this garbage, he could have had a peaceful life in his hometown married with that girl I completely forgot the name of and be a proud owner of Yukihira diner. But we all know life sucks so Souma's gonna have to make do with that garbage.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by shanimebib

Three generations of garbage runs in Erina's blood. "Avoid" would be the only word I could suggest.

I feel bad for Souma. If it wasn't for this garbage, he could have had a peaceful life in his hometown married with that girl I completely forgot the name of and be a proud owner of Yukihira diner. But we all know life sucks so Souma's gonna have to make do with that garbage.

You make it sound like someone put a gun to his head and forced him to got to that school. Souma surely didn't get any demerits from going to that school.

[GendoAizenPig]

Spin it however you want. Senzaemon himself said that he didn't care what was sacrificed. Just because everything turned out okay doesn't make him better. Just like if Azami had hypothetically succeeded he wouldn't have been a good person either. He went and gathered up a bunch of kids to use as fodder for his granddaughter. She had the ability to end careers when the series started and had cooks under her doing exactly that at Totsuki. Any of those students he brought could've had their lives ruined by her and he didn't care. So no, he wasn't much better than Azami or Mana. He puts his family above everyone else. He did override Erina to allow Soma to go to Totsuki, but there wasn't anything to imply that he would've stepped in for any of them once they were at the school.

I don't really see how the plan was even supposed to work in the end. Most of the time Erina was up in a private room or something where she didn't even have to associate with the other students of her class. She wasn't forced to compete with any of them. If not for Azami, she wouldn't have had a relationship with any of them. (Aside from disdain for Soma.)

Edit - It should also be noted that Erina herself was destroying clubs.

[Tyrant Ruler]

I mean didn't Joe kind of force soma to go at the school though. Didn't he close the diner which soma want to take as a way to blackmailed him going to the save erina school. Joe just disappear and enrolled soma at the school without telling him anything. So an away soma was force by his father by going with old man selfish
plan. Honestly speaking senzaemon plan work was due to luck he didn't see neither azami who dethrone him or asahi coming so how did he know it would end like that unless he can see the future maybe one of those special nakiri abilities lol

[shanimebib]

Originally Posted by Endscape

You make it sound like someone put a gun to his head and forced him to got to that school. Souma surely didn't get any demerits from going to that school.

Is it the love for the manga or love for Erina's tainted blood is making you say things like that? I am not gonna repeat what Tyrant Ruler has already mentioned.

It was also implied in the earlier chapters that the rejects of T**tsuki actually have it difficult in their aspirations to contribute in the culinary industry. It made me vomit of what that Grandf***er was trying to achieve at the expense of young dreams.

I thought the manga hit rock bottom with Azami. I was proved wrong with the Erina trophy thing. And just when I thought it couldn't get any lower with the dark chefs (who basically had nothing to do with T**tsuki) we get this in the penultimate chapter.

I will check the next chapter just to see the first few panels because my b*ner tells me we are going to see a nekkid Erina for one last time. Everything from her cursed tongue to her big toe might be rotten to core but gotta give it where it's due. She's got a f*cking hentai body.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by GendoAizenPig

Spin it however you want. Senzaemon himself said that he didn't care what was sacrificed.

And in this case, sacrifice means what exactly? Losing to Erina? Getting kicked out of Totsuki? None of these are really horrible things. Yes, it could be a black mark in your career, but that's a risk all the kids knew going into the school (except Souma, but that's more Jouichirou's fault) and he didn't actually force them, he just gave them the opportunity to attend the school.

Just because everything turned out okay doesn't make him better. Just like if Azami had hypothetically succeeded he wouldn't have been a good person either.

Azami wouldn't have been a good person if he succeeded because his methods were horrible, lest you forget the stuff that he did to Hayama and Shiori. Compare to what Senzaemon did by helping him become a Japanese citizen, something he might not have able to do with just Shiori's help.

I don't really see how the plan was even supposed to work in the end. Most of the time Erina was up in a private room or something where she didn't even have to associate with the other students of her class. She wasn't forced to compete with any of them. If not for Azami, she wouldn't have had a relationship with any of them. (Aside from disdain for Soma.)

He was likely hoping that she would naturally come to compete with and get to know them during her time at the school.

Edit - It should also be noted that Erina herself was destroying clubs.

Via school sanctioned rules everyone agreed to. Azami literally cheated blatantly in public to get around said rules.

Originally Posted by Tyrant Ruler

I mean didn't Joe kind of force soma to go at the school though. Didn't he close the diner which soma want to take as a way to blackmailed him going to the save erina school. Joe just disappear and enrolled soma at the school without telling him anything.

That was Joe being Joe. I'd rather blame him to Senzaemon.

Originally Posted by shanimebib

Is it the love for the manga or love for Erina's tainted blood is making you say things like that? I am not gonna repeat what Tyrant Ruler has already mentioned.

Neither. Just stating facts. All this talk about how horrible Senzaemon was seems overdone to me. The only thing he did was offer to give children a place at his school.

[GendoAizenPig]

A bad review form Erina literally could end careers. The cooking community was terrified of her. It wouldn't be just a black mark for a lot them. Their restaurants would've suffered. That's why a bunch of the kids opted to not even bother trying the admission test with her judging.

Azami was using the school as pawns to help his wife and daughter. Senzaemon was doing the same. The citizenship thing is interesting, but honestly is a minor point in the long run. He didn't do it out of the goodness of his heart, but because he was another stepping stone for Erina. They both in the end only care about their family. Azami was just more radical about it.

The Erina we met at the beginning of the series was trying to remove all the "trash" from Totsuki just like her dad (albeit like you said within the rules). If she had continued on that path it isn't much of a stretch to assume she would've removed many of those students she didn't deem worthy. They were invited to the school, but weren't told that they were being set up to compete with someone who could make it so they couldn't work in the cooking industry.

I stand by what I said. Senzaemon is an asshole. Maybe not as big as his daughter or son-in-law, but still one nonetheless.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by GendoAizenPig

A bad review form Erina literally could end careers. The cooking community was terrified of her. It wouldn't be just a black mark for a lot them. Their restaurants would've suffered. That's why a bunch of the kids opted to not even bother trying the admission test with her judging.

Exactly my point. Everyone knew what they were getting into with her, and they decided to go ahead anyway. Senzaemon only gave out an option. They made the choice to go along with it.

Azami was using the school as pawns to help his wife and daughter. Senzaemon was doing the same. The citizenship thing is interesting, but honestly is a minor point in the long run. He didn't do it out of the goodness of his heart, but because he was another stepping stone for Erina. They both in the end only care about their family. Azami was just more radical about it.

I'm less interested in their motivations, than I am of the effect their actions had on other people.

Azami's was a net negative, looking at the shady things he did. Looking at people like Hayama, Senzaemon's were a net positive.

The Erina we met at the beginning of the series was trying to remove all the "trash" from Totsuki just like her dad (albeit like you said within the rules). If she had continued on that path it isn't much of a stretch to assume she would've removed many of those students she didn't deem worthy. They were invited to the school, but weren't told that they were being set up to compete with someone who could make it so they couldn't work in the cooking industry.

Except they did know that.

Erina was super famous, as you yourself noted.

Everyone and their uncle (except Souma) knew she was going to Totsuki. Everyone (except Souma) knew that Totsuki was a super-competitive school where they would more than likely have to compete with her.

All of them had the option to not go to Totsuki and tangle with her.

I stand by what I said. Senzaemon is an asshole. Maybe not as big as his daughter or son-in-law, but still one nonetheless.

Nothing Senzaemon did stands out enough that I'd call him an asshole.

[GendoAizenPig]

Did they really know that she'd be going? I mean a lot of them got invitations when they were young. It was also unheard of for a Nakiri to attend Totsuki based off this chapter. I'm sure they knew she existed and her reputation, but as far as knowing long beforehand that she'd be in school with them I have my doubts.

My issues mostly stem from the fact that even in the, in my opinion, unlikely scenario that they did know it would still be messed up. Senzaemon had no way of knowing Erina would change and knew she was in a position where she could ruin them. She was arrogant and vindictive when the series started. She tried to get Soma expelled and would've succeeded if she had personally eliminated the ramen club like she planned to.

Senzaemon invited them without any care for what would happen to them when they eventually did go against Erina, despite knowing what kind of person she was. That's enough for me to think he's an asshole. I don't see much chance of either of us changing our opinions so I think it's best to just drop it here.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by GendoAizenPig

Did they really know that she'd be going? I mean a lot of them got invitations when they were young. It was also unheard of for a Nakiri to attend Totsuki based off this chapter. I'm sure they knew she existed and her reputation, but as far as knowing long beforehand that she'd be in school with them I have my doubts.

Rumors move quickly. I'm sure most of them knew beforehand they would be going to school with Erina

My issues mostly stem from the fact that even in the, in my opinion, unlikely scenario that they did know it would still be messed up. Senzaemon had no way of knowing Erina would change and knew she was in a position where she could ruin them. She was arrogant and vindictive when the series started. She tried to get Soma expelled and would've succeeded if she had personally eliminated the ramen club like she planned to.

And again, they all knew that going in. That's exactly the type of school Totsuki had always been. It's a risk they all chose to take.

Senzaemon invited them without any care for what would happen to them when they eventually did go against Erina, despite knowing what kind of person she was. That's enough for me to think he's an asshole.

If you want to go that far, do we even know she was like that at the age Senzaemon invited the rest of them? She seemed quite sweet when younger.

In any case, Senzaemon forced no one to go. They all knew what they were in for and went anyway.

[Tyrant Ruler]

their one thing we need to remember being manipulative doesn't always involved forcing someone to do something
and about senzaemon didn't force and they choose to go isn't really fair, since this chapter proves that these kids would've end up their either way. of course the kids went to his school their kids they don't make the choice their parents does. senzaemon persuade most of their parents to send them at totsuki when they were young. kids has no rights to say no cause their kids . any parents would except senzaemon or soe offer it's totsuki afterall their kids has a high chance of being great. so saying that the kids choose to go isn't really fair since they were set up from young age . now rather people like it or not this doesn't change the fact that senzaemon is using kids to achieve his and azami goals cause of their failures as a man and parents.

[foxbox360]

Senzaemon, the demon king of the food world, indeed.

[Kanon]

Senzaemon is definitely an asshole in my book as well. Just because everything somehow turned out fine doesn't excuse what he did. He brought in those kids to serve as sacrifices for Erina's growth as a cook. The hilarious part, as was pointed out, is that she never truly competed with the so-called Jewel generation. She became a better person and a better cook thanks to their friendship, and because she competed against her elders during the RdC.

On the hand, I think it's wrong to say Erina is also rotten. She was, but not anymore. She changed a lot after Azami resurfaced. Her family, mainly Azami, ruined her, but the Polar Star Dorm saved her.

[SilverGlavenus]

Now I know why my boy Soma doesn't give a shit in others' family business. Phew, he is the protagonist indeed.

Meh, save for Alice's family, basically Senzaemon, Azami, Mana and even Erina are jerks. The two men were manipulative a holes and the other two looked down on others because of their talents.

I thought the jewel generations plan were something along the line of pitting young chefs against each other and create a new, more creative generation of chef bla bla bla. But this is just bs.

[B214]

I think people are being too harsh on Senzaemon, sure he manipulated people for Erina and Mana, but that's natural as a human as a parent or rather as family IMHO.

Can anyone here say for sure they wouldn't act so selfishly like Senzaemon would if this happen to your daughter or immediate family? Would you say for sure without a doubt that you wouldn't manipulate others to save your family if the situation were to require it.

Most of the current opinion in merely because we're on the bystander side, we're not on the situation. It's like killing for revenge, by law or simply as bystanders, we may say it's wrong to kill for revenge, but can you say for sure it's wrong when your family was the one killed?

Besides, did Senzaemon kill anyone? Did he destroy anyone's restaurant/shop to save his daughter or granddaughter? He didn't, he just went to a more extreme step to pull people into his school.

[GendoAizenPig]

That's such a weak argument in my opinion. By that logic, we can't critique pretty much any fictional characters actions because we're always "bystanders." How can you criticize if you're not in their shoes? For example, Azami was just doing everything necessary to ensure his plans to help his wife and daughter. It was all he could come up with. So I think people are being too harsh to him. Sure he cheated and didn't care about the other students, but family is more important.

It also doesn't matter that things turned out okay. Senzaemon in his own words said "Whatever the cost or sacrifice, I'll make sure there's hope for Erina." He didn't give a shit about the students he invited or their fates. He admitted he was being selfish. The outcome isn't what makes him an asshole. It's the intent.