AnimeSuki Forums

Gan_HOPE326 · 2017-10-26, 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by nojay

I know a couple of people who paid good money for a child. One was bought from China (about $20,000 all told from what they told me), another from Romania (quite a bit less, there was a glut on the market at the time). If you said their adopted children were slaves or merchandise they would be rightly annoyed.

Err, not so rightly. Unless you actually mean simply money that was spent for adoption-related paperwork, if they literally paid for the child... yes, he was merchandise. Not a slave because they wouldn't have any legal right to enforce such a bond and obviously I imagine they do not treat him as a slave. But selling human beings is generally illegal anyway.

Ultragunner · 2017-10-26, 08:49

well, Chise gave herself up for slavery sale, and the most peaceful/easy way for Ains to get her was to bought her out.

Yes, human auction is illegal in our world, but this is an alternative reality with mages and mythical beings...etc...

and to be fair, Ains is supposedly "ancient" and his age should in the hundreds or even thousands, thus Chise's standing is nowhere near him.

but yeah, it was outright "weird" when he mentioned making Chise his bride

orion · 2017-10-26, 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by nojay

I know a couple of people who paid good money for a child. One was bought from China (about $20,000 all told from what they told me), another from Romania (quite a bit less, there was a glut on the market at the time). If you said their adopted children were slaves or merchandise they would be rightly annoyed.

Exactly how Elias would "free" Chise is another question. She is likely to die soon without his aid, she is valuable to others who want her for her capabilities or for other reasons (the fae have already tried to abduct her once) and the magecraft she is studying now is dangerous and dying of a single mistake is just one option for her. She could leave Elias any time she wishes, she is not chained to the wall every night. Slavery, nope. A very odd relationship, yes.

Like the others said....

If the money was spent on an overseas adoption process, then it's not a sale. If it was pure money to purchase a human, then it's illegal human trafficking. The human is considered to be merchandise by the purchaser. Hence, Ainsworth treating Chise occasionally like a pet. The necklace she wears is tracking her. He prob can reel her in if he wants.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultragunner

well, Chise gave herself up for slavery sale, and the most peaceful/easy way for Ains to get her was to bought her out.
<snip>

Well, that's because the narrative did not offer any options. He could have approached her like the slave master did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultragunner

<snip>

Yes, human auction is illegal in our world, but this is an alternative reality with mages and mythical beings...etc...
<snip>

It was a sale in a location where people did not show their faces and no advertising the event outside of the establishment. It's prob illegal.

nojay · 2017-10-26, 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

Err, not so rightly. Unless you actually mean simply money that was spent for adoption-related paperwork, if they literally paid for the child... yes, he was merchandise.

In the case of the Chinese adoption it was pretty clear that the money for fees etc., was payment, it wasn't to cover only the costs of administration. They were charged hard currency, they couldn't pay for those services in renmimbi. They had to pay twice for special adoption visit visas as well as for other dubious services such as an official interpreter to accompany them on orphanage visits (the wife reads, writes and speaks excellent Cantonese and passable Mandarin being native Chinese herself). In the case of the Romanian orphan adoption the couple paid less than the Chinese were charging but even then the payments had to be in hard currency such as Euros, not the local currency which at the time was basically waste paper.

No dollars, no kid. Pay the "fees" and they got the kid, eventually. I'd say they literally paid for the children.

orion · 2017-10-26, 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by nojay

In the case of the Chinese adoption it was pretty clear that the money for fees etc., was payment, it wasn't to cover only the costs of administration. They were charged hard currency, they couldn't pay for those services in renmimbi. They had to pay twice for special adoption visit visas as well as for other dubious services such as an official interpreter to accompany them on orphanage visits (the wife reads, writes and speaks excellent Cantonese and passable Mandarin being native Chinese herself). In the case of the Romanian orphan adoption the couple paid less than the Chinese were charging but even then the payments had to be in hard currency such as Euros, not the local currency which at the time was basically waste paper.

No dollars, no kid. Pay the "fees" and they got the kid, eventually. I'd say they literally paid for the children.

It's a transaction in stable currency for an overseas adoption. These things aren't free. If they wanted something less expensive, then adopt local. It's not considered human trafficking. The government was right to make sure an official interpreter was present.

Stark700 · 2017-10-28, 11:59

Episode 4:

Spoiler:

nojay · 2017-10-28, 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stark700

Episode 4:

Spoiler:

About Ulthar...

Spoiler:

Mangaka-chan · 2017-10-28, 16:46

The undercurrent of death and cruelty in the cats of Ulthar arc has always disturbed me. I know what's coming and I'm really dreading it. Seeing this article on the BBC certainly didn't help.

Mistyclear · 2017-10-28, 17:12

As always a beautifully done episode, though the next episode looks to be quite tragic I’m still looking forward to seeing it.

Kanon · 2017-10-28, 17:45

First half was fun, with the cute talking cats. Then when they explained the backstory, it got quite a bit darker. It's obvious Matthew wasn't killing cats because he enjoyed it, but rather because he thought it could save his beloved. He mentioned a sorcerer coming to town, I wouldn't be surprised if he was the one who planted that idea into his head. It would explain why cats dislike them too.

When Molly mentioned to Chise it's natural for a mother to be willing to do anything for her child, I felt so bad for Chise. That probably hit her really hard.

AB079 · 2017-10-28, 19:00

Something that makes this series incredibly good is the way it touches different topics with a deep connection to Chise's life, pushing her to explore the scars and doubts she has thanks to her terrible past but at the same time it helps her a lot. This time the comment from Molly regarding her owner it was something that brought a huge problem to Chise, especially because of her mother and she wants to see Elias being proud of her. It feels like Elias is aware of this and sometimes let things happen so Chise can learn from these experiences and the world itself.

This episode was very dark and complicated, especially because this impurity was probably killing cats in order to extend the life of the woman he loves but everything ended in a wrong way. Hopefully everything goes well.

SeaDoor · 2017-10-28, 21:59

I was worried that the production team might try and cover this arc in a single episode but seems I worried for nothing. This series seems to be in really good hands. Yes, this is a tough arc.

Twi · 2017-10-29, 08:49

Review/recap. Lovecraft seems to mix really well with Japanese lore, it seems. The past would probably be a re-telling of "The Cats of Ulthar" while the present is visited in "Dream-quest".

Archon_Wing · 2017-10-29, 10:52

An episode about cats. Great! Oh shit, I guess it's not going too well for the cat. Liked how tragic and mellow it all was. Also I see Elias continues his teaching by throwing into fire kind of method.

nicky. · 2017-10-31, 19:08

I do like this show, though I'm having trouble with it. The episodes feel disconnected from one another and the pacing is extremely off-putting, especially for a person new to the series. They're going from the episode 2 into the Iceland dragons, and then the next stuff so abruptly. I don't like how the setup is being handled at all.

Twi · 2017-11-01, 13:21

That's how it was handled in the manga since they're covering maybe the first week of Chise's life with Eilas as they complete the three tasks he was given because he took her in.

Anh_Minh · 2017-11-01, 15:12

As abrupt for us as it is for Chise, I guess. She collapses after the dragon dies, and wakes up in a train because Elias wouldn't wait for her to recover before leaving.

Stark700 · 2017-11-04, 13:05

Episode 5:

Interesting episode, they are adapting this quite well.

There's the part with Matthew feeling despair after realizing that he can't save Mina. The episode did a neat job at expressing the despair imo and violence imo. How can he just trust such a suspicious sorcerer...?

For Chise, I hope she realizes that Elias will be there to protect her.

A pretty thrilling episode arc with cats, magic, and showing what love can drive a person can do for someone. Such beautiful soundtrack used this episode for the end too...I can't wait for the OST to come out for this show.

AC-Phoenix · 2017-11-04, 13:33

So did the cat-queen die too?

I also didn't catch what they meant by 9 lives.
Did they mean 9 lifes period or 9 times reborn as a cat?

Mangaka-chan · 2017-11-04, 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

So did the cat-queen die too?

I also didn't catch what they meant by 9 lives.
Did they mean 9 lifes period or 9 times reborn as a cat?

No, because Chise found a third option by having Aerial help Mina, Matthew, and the murdered cats be guided to the afterlife by Aerial's wind (thus the whole dandelion/flower imagery).

"Cats have 9 lives" refers to the fact that cats seemingly get themselves into prickly situations but somehow come out of it alive (think a cat stuck in a tall tree, leaps down, and runs away unscathed. For a human that would be impossible, so people attribute extra lives for a cat's tenacity). MnY doesn't specify what one "life" means, but the cat stays the same cat, so I think of it as like a video game where a player respawns after getting "killed". Though how Matthew is extracting those 9 lives...I'm trying not to think about it too closely.

2017-10-26, 08:49	Link #142
Ultragunner Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012	well, Chise gave herself up for slavery sale, and the most peaceful/easy way for Ains to get her was to bought her out. Yes, human auction is illegal in our world, but this is an alternative reality with mages and mythical beings...etc... and to be fair, Ains is supposedly "ancient" and his age should in the hundreds or even thousands, thus Chise's standing is nowhere near him. but yeah, it was outright "weird" when he mentioned making Chise his bride __________________

2017-10-28, 11:59	Link #146
Stark700 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Somewhere on Earth	Episode 4: Spoiler: A talking cat...there's something you don't see everyday. The pacing flows well for this episode imo. World building is well crafted with the village of cats being featured this episode. Molly is such a beautiful cat and even Chise realizes it. It's also nice to see more a bit of focus on Mina and Matthew this episode. I really like the details and pacing of this show so far. It doesn't leave out any important details and focuses on the world setting with its story while following the journey of the main characters. __________________

2017-10-28, 17:45	Link #150
Kanon Kana Hanazawa ♥ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: France Age: 37	First half was fun, with the cute talking cats. Then when they explained the backstory, it got quite a bit darker. It's obvious Matthew wasn't killing cats because he enjoyed it, but rather because he thought it could save his beloved. He mentioned a sorcerer coming to town, I wouldn't be surprised if he was the one who planted that idea into his head. It would explain why cats dislike them too. When Molly mentioned to Chise it's natural for a mother to be willing to do anything for her child, I felt so bad for Chise. That probably hit her really hard. __________________

2017-10-29, 08:49	Link #153
Twi Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	Review/recap. Lovecraft seems to mix really well with Japanese lore, it seems. The past would probably be a re-telling of "The Cats of Ulthar" while the present is visited in "Dream-quest". __________________

2017-11-01, 13:21	Link #156
Twi Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	That's how it was handled in the manga since they're covering maybe the first week of Chise's life with Eilas as they complete the three tasks he was given because he took her in. __________________

2017-10-28, 16:46	Link #148
Mangaka-chan Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: California	The undercurrent of death and cruelty in the cats of Ulthar arc has always disturbed me. I know what's coming and I'm really dreading it. Seeing this article on the BBC certainly didn't help.

2017-10-28, 17:12	Link #149
Mistyclear Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2016	As always a beautifully done episode, though the next episode looks to be quite tragic I’m still looking forward to seeing it.

2017-10-28, 19:00	Link #151
AB079 Banned Join Date: Apr 2016	Something that makes this series incredibly good is the way it touches different topics with a deep connection to Chise's life, pushing her to explore the scars and doubts she has thanks to her terrible past but at the same time it helps her a lot. This time the comment from Molly regarding her owner it was something that brought a huge problem to Chise, especially because of her mother and she wants to see Elias being proud of her. It feels like Elias is aware of this and sometimes let things happen so Chise can learn from these experiences and the world itself. This episode was very dark and complicated, especially because this impurity was probably killing cats in order to extend the life of the woman he loves but everything ended in a wrong way. Hopefully everything goes well.

2017-10-28, 21:59	Link #152
SeaDoor Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Southeastern US	I was worried that the production team might try and cover this arc in a single episode but seems I worried for nothing. This series seems to be in really good hands. Yes, this is a tough arc.

2017-10-31, 19:08	Link #155
nicky. animesuki Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: United States of A.	I do like this show, though I'm having trouble with it. The episodes feel disconnected from one another and the pacing is extremely off-putting, especially for a person new to the series. They're going from the episode 2 into the Iceland dragons, and then the next stuff so abruptly. I don't like how the setup is being handled at all.

2017-11-01, 15:12	Link #157
Anh_Minh I disagree with you all. Join Date: Dec 2005	As abrupt for us as it is for Chise, I guess. She collapses after the dragon dies, and wakes up in a train because Elias wouldn't wait for her to recover before leaving.

2017-11-04, 13:05	Link #158
Stark700 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Somewhere on Earth	Episode 5: Interesting episode, they are adapting this quite well. There's the part with Matthew feeling despair after realizing that he can't save Mina. The episode did a neat job at expressing the despair imo and violence imo. How can he just trust such a suspicious sorcerer...? For Chise, I hope she realizes that Elias will be there to protect her. A pretty thrilling episode arc with cats, magic, and showing what love can drive a person can do for someone. Such beautiful soundtrack used this episode for the end too...I can't wait for the OST to come out for this show. __________________

2017-11-04, 13:33	Link #159
AC-Phoenix Detective Join Date: Aug 2010 Age: 36	So did the cat-queen die too? I also didn't catch what they meant by 9 lives. Did they mean 9 lifes period or 9 times reborn as a cat? __________________ Those who forget about the past are condemned to repeat it - Santayana Sidenote: I'm seemingly too dumb for my current keyboard, so if you see the same character twice in a row, when it doesn't belong there just ignore it.