Macross Delta - Character Discussion - Mirage Farina Jenius

[Tenzen12]

It's not stagnant, it's stable. Not every character has to change and even less characters have to change constantly. She is decent pilot (though not great) with own problems and aspirations. See how these things are addressed would be nice but there is lot of more urgent matters.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by azarhal

Also, I don't think Mirage is going to be inspired by Hayate and/or Freyja. They aren't pushing her at all (like Hayate/Freyja did in the early episodes), they don't even seems to be trying to understand her actually.

We'll see, there are a number of possibilities. But at this point neither Hayate nor Freyja are aware that Mirage has these kind of issues at all (it's not like Mirage goes around telling about them to everyone). Thing is, so far Mirage got away with being a so-so pilot and angsting in herself, because with Messer the Delta squadron still performed well. Now Messer is gone so Mirage has to put on her big girl panties and deal with her issues one way or another to function as a valuable member of the squadron. Or there's always the "waah I resign, rock bottom feel sorry for me" thing. (I really really hope that whatever happens they'll avoid that.)

Originally Posted by Thess

It doesn't really help that some magazines announcing how Freyja and Hayate will mature after this foretell that Mirage's grand change is that she... will become more feminine and that pisses me off the most.

Eh, I wouldn't take these things too seriously. (But on the other hand I also don't expect a whole lot on this front from Kawamori, either... )

Anyway, I quite like Mirage even as she is now (and even if she's not my favorite), and I'm fairly certain that her time will come.

[Arya]

Well, sadly I agree about the lack of script about Mirage character, also, as noted in the image thread it seems her skills degraded from the arrive of Hayate. Behavior that adds up with my general impression of the writing "slightly" bending in favor of our two MCs.
Having said that I like her, I do like her, I also find her character deeper that Hayate and Frejya combined (not said with any ill-intent, just a matter of fact), but that's it. She seems a side character. (not that I mind the lack of screen time, it's the lack of meaning within the story that is becoming worrisome).

My fear at this point is that when her turn will come, she will be subjected to the same treatment, like some power-up of sort without any real buildup behind it.
Then if she will switch to be a singer yeah, that would be sad, but in either cases I don't see room for her, with Hayate occupying all the spot on one side and all the girls on the other. At this point a third path should be opened, like becoming a chef may be?

[Alhazred]

Meh, if Kawamori is even semi-serious about the whole "she's not a good pilot because one of her parents was a doctor" genetic predestination excuse, then i still want to see her Siegfried get benched for a bit so they can dump her in one of the Queadluun-Raus they have on Al Shahal and some of that Meltrandi genetic memory can kick in.

[KiraYamatoFan]

Originally Posted by Alhazred

Meh, if Kawamori is even semi-serious about the whole "she's not a good pilot because one of her parents was a doctor" genetic predestination excuse, then i still want to see her Siegfried get benched for a bit so they can dump her in one of the Queadluun-Raus they have on Al Shahal and some of that Meltrandi genetic memory can kick in.

I would take that scenario.

When I think of Mirage being not that good of a pilot (according to what has been shown so far) although she is supposed to be one of the squadron's top pilots, I really kinda miss the old SMS from Macross Frontier. What I mean is that all SMS pilots each had a particular set of skills that reflect the pilot's personality, and they exploit those skills to maximum potential. With Mirage, I just cannot point my finger on what skills match her personality yet.

With Mirage being the first female pilot in a Macross series since Millia, I hope we find the answer soon and I hope she will become a much better pilot than what we have seen so far. However, the window that allows believable character development is shrinking fast as we're about to hit halfway in the series.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

With Mirage being the first female pilot in a Macross series since Millia, I hope we find the answer soon and I hope she will become a much better pilot than what we have seen so far. However, the window that allows believable character development is shrinking fast as we're about to hit halfway in the series.

Sylvie and Klan Klan exist. :P

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Thess

Sylvie and Klan Klan exist. :P

Don't forget Nora, and ... well, billions of Meltlandi who would jump at that statement.

- Tak

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by Tak

Don't forget Nora, and ... well, billions of Meltlandi who would jump at that statement.

Images

DECULTURE!

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[KiraYamatoFan]

Well, I should have clarified that I meant that Mirage is the first female pilot since Millia to be put in a position of being such a big game changer, especially by being so high in the pecking order of the cast.

Anyway, my point about Mirage's piloting skills not matching her personality still stands. Just as Arya mentioned, her skills seem to be downgraded since Hayate beat her in that simulated dogfight. There's no way any viewer can establish what she does best as a pilot so we know what her role is on the team. In normal time, you would believe that we should have the answer by now and then watch her build up upon existing foundations.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

Well, I should have clarified that I meant that Mirage is the first female pilot since Millia to be put in a position of being such a big game changer, especially by being so high in the pecking order of the cast.

Uh, that's still Sylvie Jena, who was even the Ace Pilot in Macross II (as infamously noncanon it became later).

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Thess

Uh, that's still Sylvie Jena, who was even the Ace Pilot in Macross II (as infamously noncanon it became later).

Nora dammit! Why no one mentions Nora! She was HOT!

- Tak

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by Tak

Nora dammit! Why no one mentions Nora! She was HOT!

Hot, violent, and driven by vengeance. Nobody wants to fly with Gasai Yuno.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Gravitas Free Zone

Hot, violent, and driven by vengeance. Nobody wants to fly with Gasai Yuno.

But Yuno cares, in her own unique way! She is just misunderstood...

- Tak (well DD flew with her, and she took the bullet)

[BetoJR]

Originally Posted by Gravitas Free Zone

Hot, violent, and driven by vengeance. Nobody wants to fly with Gasai Yuno.

Don't know who Yuno is, but agree on Nora.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

Don't know who Yuno is, but agree on Nora.

Yuno Gasai is the obsessive, psychotic girlfriend of the protagonist in Future Diary. She killed a lot of people and is not above killing the protagonist's mother if the latter proved to be an obstacle in Yuno's relationship.

Really, Nora is leagues ahead of Yuno in terms of sanity.

- Tak

[BetoJR]

Originally Posted by Tak

Yuno Gasai is the obsessive, psychotic girlfriend of the protagonist in Future Diary.

Never seen it. Do I need to?

[D-Joe]

Well, she's Delta 2 now.

[D-Joe]

Mirage is part of the show, and this episode is character focused, so we're not out of topic, thanks.
MOD EDIT: Post moved to proper thread.

Originally Posted by CriiGV

Nah, I don't think Mirage will win the triangle. She doesn't have the same emotional/inspiring impact that Freyja has on Hayate. At the rate we're going, it's like Hayate and Freyja are Max and Milia 2.0 in the sense that two opposite ends of the war come together to show that they can live in peace (even their character designs hint at it. Blue delta/Red Walkure. Blue and Orange fold waves that are complementary colors). The resonance, now sharing feelings a la Sheryl/Alto, the mp3 player, Hayate's dad Nuking the Windies (strongly hinted at) it all just screams UNMEI.

Also I'd feel pretty cheated if someone won the triangle simply because "the romance was their sole purpose". If we don't get a Freyja end, a sky end would be much better than a Mirage end.

I hardly believe fixing Mirage's problems simply because "here you go, have this boy" would work. Mirage comes off to me like the character that has to learn to stand up by themselves and that they don't need someone to make them happy/validate them. Mirage puts too much importance of legacy and validation. Typically the best resolution in these cases is accepting that you, yourself are enough. Having her win a silly triangle with her problems would be the biggest middle finger towards what an actual relationship should be.

Anyway, that's just how I view it.

You're right about the triangle, and the problem is, the writers still not start develop Mirage when that's what she needs.
I'm pretty sure her fans will be happy if she get some personal development, even she lose the triangle(as pretty likely for now).
Also i don't understand why the writers always let Mirage walks with Hayate, it's like Mirage cannot start up without Hayate.exe because she is Hayate's DLC, she need a moment that she's alone(and not just few seconds).

Originally Posted by Gravitas Free Zone

Welcome to the Minmay and Ranka side of the room.

Mirage is in even worst position than both, you can say Minmay and Ranka's development not ended up well(though i think Minmay's development was pretty good even in TV version), but Mirage is basically still in "here is her setting" stage, nothing deep about her has written yet.
It's not about winning or losing the triangle anymore.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Mirage basically has no existence beyond "have famous parents".

If she wasn't a Jenius, we wouldn't have considered her a major character worth screentime.

Really, this is the first time I felt an anime character need rescuing. She needed to be saved from being a waste of oxygen. I want to like her, damn it.

[Father Hentai]

Originally Posted by Thess

Spoiler for mmm spoilers episode 11:

That would be great but when have we seen Mirage actually training and showing her 'hard work and determination'? Was this off screen (too)? Because in the battlefield, half of the time, she does almost nothing but getting shot and shouting "Delta Five! Delta Five!" Her best moments are occasionally support to Hayate.

We've seen Hayate and Freyja struggling and training despite their natural talent to meet the expectation of the aces because they took a vow to show off what they are made of. We see nothing of this kind of initiative from Mirage in 11 episodes. Freyja lost her abilities in last episode and we see her training hard in that Walkure camp, getting muddy. Where's this determination Freyja show in Mirage's actions? She takes criticism, bows her head and occasionally gets a scene or two, positive or negative. If that were her arc, wouldn't she joined in Hayate in her "I wanted to show Messer what I am made for" deal? But it didn't happen.

Hayate and Freyja have show not only talent, but also determination and heart about what they want to do. Christ, Freyja shipped herself out her planet and defied her people to follow what she considered right. And it wasn't easy at all.

Yeah, I'm not sure what her character is there for, honestly, besides the triangle. We're about to reach the half of the show and her only significant growth is that she's not hostile with Hayate, nothing about her character remotely changed just a relationship to justify she's there as a potential love interest. Meanwhile Freyja's and Hayate's relationship with each other deepened, sure, but they as characters also grew and matured, and forged bonds with other people, not just with each other. Mirage, so far, has only showed any kind of change in her relationship with Hayate and nothing else.

You're free to tell me I'm "bashing" her, but her characterization has been really awful so far. While they have been competent with mostly everyone else. I'm ready for Kawamori to wow me with Mirage, who I had all the expectation for her to be my favorite girl before I watched the show, and met nothing but complete and utter disappointment in how poorly written and underused she is. It almost feels like Ranka again, only there to make her rival look better, but at least they worried to give Ranka personal growth and focused on other relationships with her too. Eleven episodes in, how long until she actually becomes more than an accessory love interest and transforms into an actual main character to stand by Hayate's and Freyja's side?

Have you missed episode three or why are you saying that there has been no training between Mirage and Hayate? Mirage and Hayate are constantly - even if not screened all the time - having flight training together to fly such maneuvers. You can't just do this by talents. And you need more than talents and fold boost to be a combat pilot.

Also. One thing you are totally missing. Mirage worked out a flight pattern to fight the white knight. see episode twelve, the same episode where Freyja was going over the boot camp. The only reason why Mirage plan did not work was due to the bad aerodynamic of the Siegfrieds and the lack of experience by Hayate, Mirage and Chuck.

At a point you are correct that she is bad scripted, but her development have been shown. Maybe we will see Mirage also "dance" with the wind, if she will sync with Hayate, but that is just speculations at this point.

In terms of love relationship. In episode 16 she explains that dating is not her strength. I am not quite sure why we are trying to forcefully looking out for her emotional feelings towards Hayate.