Macross Delta - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll

[SleepingTerror]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Tell me exactly how you will plan for Windermere to dismantle its political system and rebuilt into a fairer and more peaceful society, without either a military invasion (not likely to happen with one episode left) or protocuture induced disaster.

As it currently stands, Windermere has no reason to change ANYTHING. They will maintain the status quo and repeat what they have done in the future, unless someone force them to change, but here you are saying we can't force them to change. That they are better off getting away with it.

I already said it, but I'll say it again, Heinz.

Spoiler for Macross Frontier spoilers:

Also a shit ton of spoilers for Frontier so if you're the minority and haven't seen it yet....... don't read this
Delta parallels Frontier, right? Roid is Grace, Mikumo is Sheryl, and Windermere is the Vajra (blah blah blah). Another way of looking at it is Heinz is Sheryl and Mikumo is Ranka. Heinz has been used by Roid, but when he got too sick, Roid moved on to Mikumo (sound familiar?). Roid (Grace) has been using Windermere (Vajra) to achieve his own means, not exactly ordering them (Windermere & Vajra) to do what he wants, but using their human/animal nature.
You're right, they don't have a reason to change anything besides morals (which they've proven to have very little of). But that's when I go back to my comparison of Heinz to Sheryl. The reason the Vajra backed off was because Sheryl's feelings reached them through her song. This leads me to believe that Windermere will back off because of Heinz.
As for deconstructing the monarchy, just read up on history. I don't know the details, but somehow, monarchy tends to build up to democracy. Or communism.
"Getting away with it" is so childish, I'm sorry.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Frankly I have no idea why you think it is less childish to expect a militant nation to somehow stop being an aggressor, when you agree they have no reason to stop.

You expect a song to change the government? No, they are not the Zentradi, they have songs of their own. Songs of death and destruction. And Windermere is very happy with the songs they already have.

You really think the government change magically? Without something triggering it? Who is the childish one here?

[SleepingTerror]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Frankly I have no idea why you think it is less childish to expect a militant nation to somehow stop being an aggressor, when you agree they have no reason to stop.

You expect a song to change the government? No, they are not the Zentradi, they have songs of their own. Songs of death and destruction. And Windermere is very happy with the songs they already have.

You really think the government change magically? Without something triggering it? Who is the childish one here?

Do you even read. I already answered all your questions, you're just choosing to ignore them. Nothing you've said is a direct response to what I have said, and all you do is take my words out of context and add more things to it to fit your warped POV.
And yes, if you think Windermere is "getting away with it" if they're aren't suffering the same fate they inflicted on others, then you are being childish. The mature thing to do is learn from the mistakes and seek redemption. I'd also like to point out what's also being childish is making a mistake and choosing to blame someone else for it.
NUNS: "We dropped a bomb and missed. Oh no!"
Windermereans: //dies
NUNS: "They did it!"
"You really think the government change magically?" JFC. Read what I wrote and think a little harder this time.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

What NUNs does has nothing to do with Windermere declaring war. Unless you think it is enough justification for it?

That's my point, that Windermere should not have declared war, and if they think they should then they will do it again next time. And that there will never be peace as long as you still believe Windermere was right to invade four innocent planets because of what someone else did to them.

A Windermere that still think they are morally right, is a Windermere that is still a threat.

[SleepingTerror]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

if they think they should then they will do it again next time.

You can't possibly know this.

[CrowKenobi]

Closing the thread since we've obviously stopped discussing the episode. I'll reopen the thread Monday.

Thread reopened. Please stay on topic of the episode and use the available on-topic threads for discussion that falls outside the scope of the episode itself.

[Kokojin]

can someone explain to me what happened with wright immelman? i dont understand the sub / translation of the episode, so correct me if i am wrong in this understanding.

so basically, wright immelman who flew the VF-22 armed with the dimensional weapon had some sort of crisis of faith in his mission, and his conscious drove him to reduce the civilian / windamerian casualties as much as possible, so he flew off course thereby when the NUNS detected the off course nature of his flight chose to detonate the dimensional weapon remotely? thus causing damage to the NUNS forces on the ground in the area and immelmans dad labeled a traitor?

this doesn't seem correct can someone break down what happened for me please.

[Jingdot]

Originally Posted by Kokojin

can someone explain to me what happened with wright immelman? i dont understand the sub / translation of the episode, so correct me if i am wrong in this understanding.

so basically, wright immelman who flew the VF-22 armed with the dimensional weapon had some sort of crisis of faith in his mission, and his conscious drove him to reduce the civilian / windamerian casualties as much as possible, so he flew off course thereby when the NUNS detected the off course nature of his flight chose to detonate the dimensional weapon remotely? thus causing damage to the NUNS forces on the ground in the area and immelmans dad labeled a traitor?

this doesn't seem correct can someone break down what happened for me please.

They gave Immeldad the "task" to drop the dimensional bomb on the royal capital of Windermere. Wright didn't want to do that and took a detour, telling his officials that there are turbulences in the planned route (to the royal capital). They told him that there are no turbulences and that he should go back to the planned route. Wright refused and cut off the contact. NUNS acted and swichted his VF to remote control, dropping off the bomb right where Hayates dad was. They'd rather have him as a evil man (and traitor) that dropped off the bomb on a part of Windermere and where some NUNS were located, so nobody would think that they themselves are "evil".
Hayates dad wanted to fly off as far as he can to reduce the damage that would be caused, since he knew that NUNS would detonate it anyway.

[Kokojin]

ty for the clarification, now the question that needs to be asked, how did the plane and any evidence survive being at point zero of a dimensional weapon explosion? or are we (the viewers) supposed to chuck that up to plot-no-jitsu?