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Old 2014-08-11, 13:16   Link #5781
Solace
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The thing about Esdeath and Tatsumi is that he's not even remotely close to being in a position to change her mind. Esdeath only serves the Empire because she gets to flex her "the strong survive" muscle, but she's not a party to the corruption or power lust that someone in her position would normally fall victim to.

This makes her a wild card. Tatsumi isn't going to convince her to side with him because he lacks something that she respects dearly: strength. Think about it. Why would you listen to a weakling? No amount of passionate reasoning is going to convince someone to give up an advantageous position. It's like a poor person convincing a rich person to give up their fortune because you don't need money to be happy. It's possible, I guess, but the odds are almost impossible that's going to happen.

If Tatsumi wants to sway Esdeath, he's going to have to power up and show her that he can crush his enemies with the same overwhelming force she can....or greater. Until then, his pleas fall on deaf ears.
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Old 2014-08-11, 14:43   Link #5782
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Next coming chapters will be the ones that will decide the fate of certain characters in the story and how the story for them will progress and end. I have no doubt of this.
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Old 2014-08-11, 16:09   Link #5783
Kiltias
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I don't expect it to happen, but gosh.
Takahiro will be my favorite Author if he has the balls (Lubbock pun not intended), to have Esdeath mind break Tatsumi in some fashion.


I mean, the whole thing with Akame ga Kill now is that every chapter has gotten unpredictable.
Yet, the Author clearly plays with Death Flags for Mine and Leone in regards to Tatsumi's confession.So perhaps that might not actually happen cause it may be a tad too obvious.
However, there is a whole different possibility, no deaths, but Tatsumi ending up broken (for a SHORT WHILE), by Esdeath into liking her, Mine being forced to watch him drool all over her (No Innuendo intended here) and ends up having to regain him.

Just a thought.
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Old 2014-08-11, 16:23   Link #5784
crunchytaco
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Originally Posted by Kiltias View Post
I don't expect it to happen, but gosh.
Takahiro will be my favorite Author if he has the balls (Lubbock pun not intended), to have Esdeath mind break Tatsumi in some fashion.


I mean, the whole thing with Akame ga Kill now is that every chapter has gotten unpredictable.
Yet, the Author clearly plays with Death Flags for Mine and Leone in regards to Tatsumi's confession.So perhaps that might not actually happen cause it may be a tad too obvious.
However, there is a whole different possibility, no deaths, but Tatsumi ending up broken (for a SHORT WHILE), by Esdeath into liking her, Mine being forced to watch him drool all over her (No Innuendo intended here) and ends up having to regain him.

Just a thought.
In the mean time I shall make more photoshopped Esdeath pictures with stock images from Deviant art.

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Old 2014-08-11, 16:31   Link #5785
Mentar
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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
The thing about Esdeath and Tatsumi is that he's not even remotely close to being in a position to change her mind.
Says who?

Tatsumi is the one thing that Esdeath really seems to want. Heck, she even developed a way TO STOP TIME solely to catch him, remember?

If Tatsumi plays his cards smartly (would be a change, but I think it's time), he is in a perfect position to influence her, a'la "I can't love a girl that...".

Quote:
This makes her a wild card. Tatsumi isn't going to convince her to side with him because he lacks something that she respects dearly: strength. Think about it. Why would you listen to a weakling?
Why weakling, he is anything but a wuss? He may not be in Esdeath's league, but then again, who is? He's been holding his own in fights, and the two of them did just nicely during their island time.

The main point though is: Esdeath doesn't need to fall for him, SHE ALREADY HAS. It's only a matter how much she is going to be willing to accomodate him.
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Old 2014-08-11, 17:45   Link #5786
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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
The thing about Esdeath and Tatsumi is that he's not even remotely close to being in a position to change her mind. Esdeath only serves the Empire because she gets to flex her "the strong survive" muscle, but she's not a party to the corruption or power lust that someone in her position would normally fall victim to.

This makes her a wild card. Tatsumi isn't going to convince her to side with him because he lacks something that she respects dearly: strength. Think about it. Why would you listen to a weakling? No amount of passionate reasoning is going to convince someone to give up an advantageous position. It's like a poor person convincing a rich person to give up their fortune because you don't need money to be happy. It's possible, I guess, but the odds are almost impossible that's going to happen.

If Tatsumi wants to sway Esdeath, he's going to have to power up and show her that he can crush his enemies with the same overwhelming force she can....or greater. Until then, his pleas fall on deaf ears.
I Already wrote a ton of stuff saying otherwise that i think is getting ignored. so i'll just copy and paste this time.

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Originally Posted by ShiryuMask View Post
What I'm trying to say is: If Esdeath really wants to be with Tatsumi, for the couple to work this is something that she really need to change. But you really think that she would let it go to her hobby? I don't think so.
Even if she change side(thing that I can't see happening even if I know that she can do whatever she want) and Mine die or her she broke with Tatsumi or vice versa.....even if these 2 things change, if Esdeath stay Sadist like she is now, then there is no way that the relationship could work.
I do think so. i think many people think so. If we have to recall chapters (with relevance this time) then how about when she first mentioned that she thought it would be nice to be in love with someone? she admits that she did not know where such feelings came from, that she always loved war and carnage and wondered if it was bestial instinct and even the Prime minister said that such talk did not suit her (or thought it) and that's proof that she is changing.

The prime minister also said to kid emperor that until that point, she was also the sort to accept carnage rather than flowers so again, changing.

Her actions and behavior towards Tatsumi are also new to her and not part of her usual character. she admits to him that its the first time she ever felt such feelings and that it was not so bad, so again, changing.

Then there's the whole chapter of her and Tatsumi in her room, her mentioning that she was never in that position before and did not know what to do, her kissing Tatsumi, Her promising that she would not let anything hurt him again (despite her feelings of survival of the fittest, this implies she would step in if her was in trouble instead of leaving him to his weak fate so again, change) her saying that she acknowledges him as a man (instead of a pet) her desire to see his smile and possess him and his feelings without forcing him and actually taking it slow.

of course, she is a soldier so its not unexpected that she would tell the jaegers to do what needed to be done if necessary but then she feels like Tatsumi is not weak (true) and will force her feelings onto him.

Then there is the chapter when she looks for Tatsumi in crowds against her judgement and her refusing to accept anyone else but him, even telling the emperor that.
Then there is the night patrol she went on while in truth, she just went out because the moon was pretty, something she ADMITS is out of her character and blaming Tatsumi for it, yet more changing.

then the whole chapter on the island thing and her wanting to show off to Tatsumi (though he is the one who charmed her a bit). although she did show more of her sadistic side, but even Leone has a similar side while fighting.
Then she wants to know Tatsumi more and wants to hear about him in exchange for halting her advances. The story itself tells where her nature come from. her whole childhood was a life of kill or be killed. in those environments it IS ACTUALLY A LIFE OF SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST. the weak are weeded out, that's the life she lived and she lived it for years. and despite her current liking of torture, when she as a kid she did not like the screaming of the lizards, so its something that grew on her.

Of course, it is disturbing about her burying 400,000 people alive in the north just to save costs and that she would of done it regardless of being told to or not, but those where the times and she was a soldier. that fact that she did it at all is still disturbing I'll give you that and definitely makes her a monster. all i can say is that she was not in love at the time but that does not make it less notorious.

as for the teigu blood. i'm a bit in a daze about because of course, you would have to be a complete psycho to be able to control such a thing, or perhaps just have a strong and dominating will. its not exactly clear which one prevailed but i would say both in this case. but as for the madness the blood brings and her being in love with Tatsumi, i have to wonder that if the blood was really all that terrible then how is she able to love at all? where did the feelings come from? is the blood waring off or is it the blood itself? many have said that her feelings of lovey ness would cause the blood to overwhelm her but in that sense, it should of prevented this side of her from appearing at all. so the fact that it she is in love means that the blood wont necessarily cause her misfortune since she is already in control of it. (i think)
Tatsumi justifyingly feels that such a strong ego cant be changed, and to his credit, who can blame him after hearing all that? but i feel there is a possibility that he does not give himself enough credit to the small changes she has just by being in love, imagine what could happen if he responded. but in that sort of case who in their right minds would think that? can't blame him. then there was the bit where she reached out to Tatsumi when he went through the portal and became saddened that they were seperated. not exactly something you'd expect from a monster.

Then there was that one bit where she was looking at a picture she drew of Tatsumi with a lonely face.

Then there was the fight against Night raid and even after the mutilation of Leone and Tatsumi jumped in to defend her, why would Esdeath, of all people, who lives for fighting and killing folks actually hestitate to fight incurso despite not knowing who was in it? even she said it was a first that a part of her did not want to fight someone so again, change...ish... she did end up fighting Tatsumi but the fact that even she noticed that part of her did not want to fight is something different for her.

the burning of the westerners. well they were invading. she probably did not have to go that far but again, you don't want a pushover leading the defenses. although her loving of the chaos and saying it's what she lived for does give support to the sadism in her.

Then there was the message she got to return to the capital and her thinking of Tatsumi took the smile off her face from the thought of battle.

AS for her stopping Tatsumi in the castle. what was she going to do? a general just letting intruders get away? she may only be a general to suit her needs for battle but she still has a duty.

And even after finding out about Tatsumi being Incursio she still loved him and protected him from the Wild Hunt women despite him being defeated. she always said that suffering was the nature of the weak and that the weak perishing or being violated was natures course, but that seems to go out the window when Tatsumi is concerned. she was willing to forget about the past or if they where friends or enemies just because her feelings got the best of her. and that's despite realizing that Tatsumi has been her enemy and played a role if the fight against the Jaegers.


and now... now is the tipping point. the decider... will she choose Tatsumi or warfare? will she take Bols advice and not give up to be with the one she loves or will she cease with the Love and go on total rampage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiryuMask View Post
After his past experience its just not possible.

there is plenty of evidence on both sides to support either claim. so until the next chapter, or 3 come out, i think the argument is moot. too much to say she will, too much to say she wont but to say anyone of the with an "ABSOLUTE" just means said person is not paying attention to both side of the issue and just to what suits them.

and please note that i made a list of good and bad things about Esdeath a while back. i am not biased but i took a look of both sides and i say she will, or should, change. i cant be sure though since there is evidence to say otherwise so thats why im saying the next chapters are CRUCIAL to the WHOLE THING.
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Old 2014-08-11, 17:48   Link #5787
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...
Your posts are getting bigger each time lol. It might be easier to list the main points of your ideas?
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Old 2014-08-11, 18:03   Link #5788
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Seem like delusions and projections returned to this thread after some time. It's like some people superseded Takahiro's words on Esdese (from guidebook) from their brains.
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Old 2014-08-11, 19:05   Link #5789
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Takahiro's words and interpretation of it are two different things. It seems that some people are deluded enough not even get that much...
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Last edited by Tenzen12; 2014-08-11 at 19:57.
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Old 2014-08-11, 19:15   Link #5790
crunchytaco
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Can anyone here actually read Japanese? The book's over 200 pages and I haven't heard anything here that hasn't been translated yet. I can make up stuff and no one here would be the wiser I bet. The info that's been shared - I still don't know if it's reliable information since I'm getting it from Kiltias and he's getting it from another source who's getting it from another source lol.
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Old 2014-08-11, 19:57   Link #5791
Nice
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Your posts are getting bigger each time lol. It might be easier to list the main points of your ideas?
yea... its quite a chore on the keyboard. i just want to reassure the folks that im not doing this out of blindness or bias or prejudice or what i solely want. i want them to at least know i'm taking everything into account and everything is a LOT of things lol.

unfortunetly the main point of my ideas is every point because each point is valid and proof that supports my idea.

as a great man once said "never half ass two things, Whole ass one thing"...i forgot the rest. so sleepy.
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Old 2014-08-11, 20:25   Link #5792
Nice
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Takahiro's words and interpretation of it are two different things. It seems that some people are deluded enough not even get that much...
that would be me. The translation release was just bad timing as it came out the same time as the last chapter. so folks like me baisically went through anything they could to reaffirm what they believe.

i guess we shouldn't of taken it too literally. after all data books are small details of the characters 'Thus far' and not a spoiler into the future. so nothing is certain yet.
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Old 2014-08-11, 21:20   Link #5793
Solace
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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Says who?

Tatsumi is the one thing that Esdeath really seems to want. Heck, she even developed a way TO STOP TIME solely to catch him, remember?

If Tatsumi plays his cards smartly (would be a change, but I think it's time), he is in a perfect position to influence her, a'la "I can't love a girl that...".
Right, smartly....meaning not in Tatsumi's character. He's not an idiot, but a smooth fast thinking talker he is not.

Quote:
Why weakling, he is anything but a wuss? He may not be in Esdeath's league, but then again, who is? He's been holding his own in fights, and the two of them did just nicely during their island time.

The main point though is: Esdeath doesn't need to fall for him, SHE ALREADY HAS. It's only a matter how much she is going to be willing to accomodate him.
I never said he was a weakling. Here's her list of qualifications:

Images
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Notice that nothing on that list suggests she wants an equal. She wants someone strong, not tainted by the empire, that she can mold into her perfect man. She's not looking at Tatsumi as an equal, she sees him as an inferior person that she can shape how she pleases.

That's why I said Tatsumi can't reach her. In order to even consider his words seriously, she has to see him as someone who has the strength to challenge her. Currently, he does not possess this power. In Esdeath's world, might makes right. She is not compassionate toward people she disagrees with, but she's tolerated Tatsumi because she still thinks he can be molded in her image of "love". Who knows what rampage she'll go on now that he's admitted he loves someone else and that he's a member of Night Raid.

Obviously she's changing, slowly, but she is changing. The question is, can Tatsumi reach her (by might and/or reason) before she kills him or anyone else in Night Raid, or before they find a way to kill her.
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Old 2014-08-11, 21:28   Link #5794
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That's why I said Tatsumi can't reach her. In order to even consider his words seriously, she has to see him as someone who has the strength to challenge her. Currently, he does not possess this power. In Esdeath's world, might makes right. She is not compassionate toward people she disagrees with, but she's tolerated Tatsumi because she still thinks he can be molded in her image of "love". Who knows what rampage she'll go on now that he's admitted he loves someone else and that he's a member of Night Raid.
This reminds me of Griffith a whole lot.

His whole speech about people beneath him, and how he would only respect someone his equal or greater. Well he got supplanted by Guts in the end, and Griffith had the same look of shock on his face that Esdeath had in the last chapter.

I mean Mine pretty much surpassed Esdeath despite being a dainty little sniper. Her whole survival of the strongest theory is being flipped on its head right now.
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Old 2014-08-11, 21:43   Link #5795
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This reminds me of Griffith a whole lot.

His whole speech about people beneath him, and how he would only respect someone his equal or greater. Well he got supplanted by Guts in the end, and Griffith had the same look of shock on his face that Esdeath had in the last chapter.

I mean Mine pretty much surpassed Esdeath despite being a dainty little sniper. Her whole survival of the strongest theory is being flipped on its head right now.
How has Mine surpassed Esdeath? Esdeath is still one of the most powerful characters in the manga with Buduo being her only real competition. Unless you Mine surpassed Esdeath in the race for Tatsumi's heart.
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Old 2014-08-11, 22:13   Link #5796
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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Obviously she's changing, slowly, but she is changing. The question is, can Tatsumi reach her (by might and/or reason) before she kills him or anyone else in Night Raid, or before they find a way to kill her.
Personally I find it highly unlikely given what we've seen of her character, not impossible, but it would be quite a stretch for my suspension of disbelief if that occurrred.

However a lot of people here (Not you FYI, just speaking generally) seem too focused on the "convince her to join the good team'" part of the scenario. But few are considering what occurs afterword.

Say Esdeath does join Night Raid against the empire due to her love of Tatsumi, and say the rebeliion does win. Do you guys expect them to instantly forgive her? No, that just wouldn't be possible, hell many of the people probably joined the resistance because of her. And not just because she carried out order, but because she carried out orders and enjoyed it.

Unlike Bols who had genuine remorse for what he has done and would have possibly been forgiven if he had defected, Esdeath has no such regret (as far as we know). If she does switch sides and they miraculously forgive her despite all the atrocities she has commited that would seriously be one of the biggest cases of a Karma Houdini I've seen.
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Last edited by Hollownerox; 2014-08-11 at 22:18. Reason: Accidentally used fan-translation name instead of official one
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Old 2014-08-11, 22:17   Link #5797
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How has Mine surpassed Esdeath? Esdeath is still one of the most powerful characters in the manga with Buduo being her only real competition. Unless you Mine surpassed Esdeath in the race for Tatsumi's heart.
Precisely

It's survival of the fittest. It has more meaning than just raw strength. Survival instincts of the gene where might and sex are more tied into each other than you think. If you are fit you will pass on you genes. If not then your kind will die out.

There's a reason why the author has been comically showing Esdeath trying to flex her muscles in front of Tatsumi this whole time, much to her failure of wooing him.

Here comes along a Mine who swoops up Tatsumi. What does survival of the fittest mean anymore if it doesn't win her, her mate? IRONY



The author didn't throw in a random evolution phrase for no reason.
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Old 2014-08-11, 22:42   Link #5798
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You have to admit the Mine romance came absolutely out of left field. Never before had Tatsumi expressed any romantic interest her whatsoever, then suddenly she kisses him and he just goes with it basically. Hell, I consider it NTR almost...ahem.

That's why I consider their relationship a weak, shoehorned point in the story. Feels like it's more for developing potential plot lines than anything else.
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Old 2014-08-11, 22:51   Link #5799
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You have to admit the Mine romance came absolutely out of left field. Never before had Tatsumi expressed any romantic interest her whatsoever, then suddenly she kisses him and he just goes with it basically. Hell, I consider it NTR almost...ahem.

That's why I consider their relationship a weak, shoehorned point in the story. Feels like it's more for developing potential plot lines than anything else.
Pretty much this. I wouldn't be surprised if she goes out like Kamina.
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Old 2014-08-11, 23:00   Link #5800
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I dunno, Mine's death flag is raised so high that killing her now is too predictable.
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