Madoka Magica - General Discussion

[Liddo-kun]

Finally, looks like there's something new.

Magia Record



https://myanimelist.net/anime/38256/...6Magica_Gaiden

[Vegard Aune]

Originally Posted by Liddo-kun

Finally, looks like there's something new.

Magia Record



https://myanimelist.net/anime/38256/...6Magica_Gaiden

Yeah, but it's a spinoff that apparently makes itself explicit as being not set in the same continuity as the first anime/movies.

At this point I'm basically just resigned to the idea that Rebellion will never get a follow-up. Which by extension means that I'll basically have to write it off from my personal canon entirely because all it accomplished was taking a story that had been neatly wrapped up and un-finishing it. Though in the grand scheme of things it's hardly surprising; That ending may have left a whole bunch of things open, but it did so in a way that was also pretty freaking awkward to try and continue off of.

...That said I will at least give this a look.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Vegard Aune

Which by extension means that I'll basically have to write it off from my personal canon entirely because all it accomplished was taking a story that had been neatly wrapped up and un-finishing it.

Not really. When you think about it the way the movie ends is basically the same thing as the tv show, only this time it's Homura who re-writes the universe instead of Madoka. If you say the movie is un-finished then the tv show was un-finished too.

[Haak]

The Kyuubey/Entropy problem yes but not in terms of character resolutions. The TV series tied both up neatly. The film unravelled both but only tied the Kyuubey/Entropy problem back together. The film's ending even has Homura herself hint that her situation is unstable and unsustainable for Madoka in the long run.

Though i guess what people would consider a satisfying resolution (or whether a satisfying resolution is necessary) is rather subjective. After all, did Spike Spiegel die?

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Haak

not in terms of character resolutions.

After everything Homura did trying to save Madoka, you seriously think she was gonna stay put and admit failure? If anything, the show is deceiving in trying to make it seem like Homura has gotten over it at the end, even though that goes against her characterization. All in all, I'd say the ending of the movie is much more true to her characterization.

The film's ending even has Homura herself hint that her situation is unstable

You might have forgotten but at the end of the tv show Homura says the world Madoka created is doomed too. This if further elaborated in the Wraith Arc manga. Madoka's world was fucked up. Honestly, creating a world that is more stable is probably impossible unless Madoka and Homura actually agree to compromise and create a world together. But that's hard to write because both are characterized as really stubborn in their opposite believes.

[Mars Terra]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

After everything Homura did trying to save Madoka, you seriously think she was gonna stay put and admit failure? If anything, the show is deceiving in trying to make it seem like Homura has gotten over it at the end, even though that goes against her characterization. All in all, I'd say the ending of the movie is much more true to her characterization.

The whole point to her story was that she was living in the past (both metaphorically and literally) and never letting go of the person most dear to her who she lost. But in the end she learnt that she had to accept that Madoka was gone and move on with her life.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Mars Terra

The whole point to her story was that she was living in the past (both metaphorically and literally) and never letting go of the person most dear to her who she lost.

Yes.

But in the end she learnt that she had to accept that Madoka was gone and move on with her life.

No, she did not. The show didn't do anything to make such conclusion believable. There was no reason whatsoever for her to change her mindset. You would need an entire season fully focused on her character development to justify a change of mindset for a person as obsessed as Homura.

[Mars Terra]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

There was no reason whatsoever for her to change her mindset. You would need an entire season fully focused on her character development to justify a change of mindset for a person as obsessed as Homura.

Well, that was always how I interpreted the final chapter. But there was also a scene after the fact which is a memory of when Madoka first asks Homura to become a magical girl and Homura asks her if she's sure that she wants to befriend her, to which Madoka replies:

"Homura-chan, we're already friends! And we will be from now on! Forever!"

This is something I just passed off as the writers trying to make the ending a little bit easier to swallow. But now that you mention it it would only make sense if this was Homura continuing to not let go of Madoka.

It would be a bit hypocritical of myself to blame the pacing of the manga when I praised it for fitting so many details in such a short length, as it would be if I would to blame the directing for not showing more clearly that Homura has lost her mind in this scene since I criticized Psycho-Pass for not letting the audience figure out for themselves that a person has gone crazy. In which case the only thing at fault is me for my own lack of observation.

[Vegard Aune]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Not really. When you think about it the way the movie ends is basically the same thing as the tv show, only this time it's Homura who re-writes the universe instead of Madoka. If you say the movie is un-finished then the tv show was un-finished too.

...Except that the show itself presents the rewritten universe as an improvement, with the only real downside to it being, well, Homura herself still being depressed and nihilistic about it. Meanwhile, what does the movie do? Basically jump-scare us into the transition to the new world and go far, far, far out of its way to present this new Homuverse as a bad thing, raising about a billion question marks about the sustainability of it all, and for all intents and purposes the last we see of Madoka is her expressing that she feels something is horribly wrong, coming this close to realizing exactly what it is... and just looking super unnerved in the last shot we see of her, not counting those thirty seconds right at the very end which to me feel like little more than a "Oh shit, that shot of Madoka looking unnerved doesn't make for a good segue into the credits!"

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: The thing that makes the Rebellion ending so much less satisfying than the show's ending is HOW IT PRESENTS ITSELF. That, and the fact that we have it straight from the horse's mouth that Urobuchi had to be talked into even making more. Episode 12 was how he wanted the story to end. And we also have it straight from the horse's mouth that the movie's ending was at least partially motivated by a desire to leave the door open for more stories to be told.

[Solace]

Look all I know is that Rebellion takes everything from the series and throws it in the shitter. It undoes the sacrifices and struggles all of the girls endured, it cheapens their deaths, and it cheapens Madoka's "big wish". It does all of this and replaces it with something worse, and it still leaves the ending just as open as the tv series did.

Rebellion was a mess and it soured me on the franchise. I'd rather they had made nothing at all. Which is how I feel about this new show.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Vegard Aune

...Except that the show itself presents the rewritten universe as an improvement

No, the only improvement is for the magical girls who don't have to become witches anymore. But there are no improvements for the world as a whole. At the end of the last episode of the tv show Homura literally states that despite what Madoka did, the world is still headed to its doom.

Basically jump-scare us into the transition to the new world and go far, far, far out of its way to present this new Homuverse as a bad thing, raising about a billion question marks about the sustainability of it all, and for all intents and purposes the last we see of Madoka is her expressing that she feels something is horribly wrong, coming this close to realizing exactly what it is... and just looking super unnerved in the last shot we see of her, not counting those thirty seconds right at the very end which to me feel like little more than a "Oh shit, that shot of Madoka looking unnerved doesn't make for a good segue into the credits!"

Which proves what I said. There's no difference between Homura's and Madoka's worlds. Both are doomed.

Like I said before, it would probably take both of them working together to make a world that wouldn't be fucked up somehow.

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Which proves what I said. There's no difference between Homura's and Madoka's worlds. Both are doomed.

No point continuing the anime if things are already fine.. being doomed means chance for another season of Madoka.