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Old 2020-10-26, 10:11   Link #1061
Jaden
Witch of Betrayal
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Bit old, but the WHO estimates that around 10% of humans have been infected.

Some places like China and Korea seem to have it under control, but the cost of that control is eternal vigilance, until hopefully somehow the virus is eliminated in the rest of the world. It's not clear to me, even from a public health perspective, which side of that "fence" I would like to be on.

If leaders like Trump admitted sooner that there was no intention of controlling Covid, they could have managed expectations, and it might even have played out better for them politically (Sweden model). Being indecisive is always the worst.
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Old 2020-10-26, 13:21   Link #1062
EroKing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
until hopefully somehow the virus is eliminated in the rest of the world.
erm, how exactly? The virus is also known to infect animals. Not a whole lot among cats, dogs, tigers and even lions but I doubt enough were even tested for it. Minks so far had been culled in numbers more than a million in Spain and Netherlands months ago. Denmark has been hit by it too and they plan on culling 2.5 million of them. The fact remains that it has reached remote parts of forests infecting people far removed from society and one can't simply just sanitize or fumigate everywhere. The virus will continue to live on through some form of hosts for years, possibly decades or forever like the bubonic plague. A vaccine wouldn't bring back the world to pre-coronavirus days, people need to realize those days are gone for good.
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Old 2020-10-26, 13:36   Link #1063
mangamuscle
formerly ogon bat
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
Bit old, but the WHO estimates that around 10% of humans have been infected.
I do not have the links to the studies made about the place I live in, but the estimates range from 26% to 56% ~ 63% of the local population has been infected (so far). ATM we seem to be on a light surge, which is troubling because hospital beds are starting to fill fast and tomorrow is the first day of autumn where we expect temperatures below 10ºC so this could get ugly in the weeks to come. The good news, we get free influenza vaccine shots, the bad news is that we have 1.5M doses for ~5M habitants, supposedly only those vulnerable are getting them, but politicians & the news media have already gotten their shots (regardless of age).



So far only one relative (he lived nearby) I know of has died (he was in his 70s) of covid19, which is kind of a miracle considering how extended the branches of my family are. One neighbor recently died of a heart attack, but can't be sure since I doubt they tested him for covid19 after his death. I suppose this is the part where I say "When this is all over I hope to (fill the blanK)" >_<
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Old 2020-10-26, 18:40   Link #1064
serenade_beta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Green One View Post
Well Trump has apparently admitted that they give up on controlling Covid. They apparently are just going to pray a vaccine eventually appears. Oh but he still wants you to vote for him anyway. Because he's like an amazing leader or something.

"We are not going to control the pandemic. We are going to control the fact that we get vaccines, therapeutics and other mitigation areas," is what White House chief of staff Mark Meadows said. Way to go Trump administration. Way to go.

It's called sarcasm for a reason folks.
I'm pretty sure the people that are still voting for Trump wouldn't care what anyone said at this point, so in that way, the guy has nothing to lose. He could probably say he will help spread COVID-19 if he gets voted in again, and they still would vote because...
I don't know. Umm... Because the media is evil and everyone is plotting against him... or something?
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Old 2020-10-26, 19:43   Link #1065
cyberdemon
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Originally Posted by serenade_beta View Post
I'm pretty sure the people that are still voting for Trump wouldn't care what anyone said at this point, so in that way, the guy has nothing to lose. He could probably say he will help spread COVID-19 if he gets voted in again, and they still would vote because...
I don't know. Umm... Because the media is evil and everyone is plotting against him... or something?
The only people it will actually affect are the few swing voters that are left. Yet those voters are the ones who will decide this election. They’re not loyal to either candidate So it is a surprise that he would ever say that when He needs them.

To announce that though feels like he setting himself up for a run in 2024 since he might see this year as a lost cause. So he sets Biden up with what he sees as an unwinnable situation. If he fails then Trump has the excuse he needs in 2024 to rail on the Democrats. If it does get better early in Bidens presidency then he could claim that it was actually his policies that did it.
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Old 2020-10-27, 01:18   Link #1066
EroKing
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This hijacking of the thread meant to discuss about the virus with the election or Trump talks (which has its own proper thread) has gotten too old. Move on already.
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Old 2020-10-27, 02:37   Link #1067
OH&S
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EroKing View Post
This hijacking of the thread meant to discuss about the virus with the election or Trump talks (which has its own proper thread) has gotten too old. Move on already.
Then let me steer the conversation away from politics and talk about Australia, specifically Victoria which was hit by a second wave of COVID-19.

Victoria has successfully overcome the second wave!

Melbourne's coronavirus restrictions ease as Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews announces end to lockdown
After Victoria's long and difficult coronavirus lockdown, it's now the envy of the world
Covid: Melbourne's hard-won success after a marathon lockdown

They did it by going into lockdown for 112 days. The Labour party (centre-left) premier, Daniel Andrews, has been providing daily updates via press conferences and was being hammered by our country's right-wing Murdoch press for the major steps taken to contain the outbreak (satirized here: Dan Andrews annexes Poland) and whipping up anti-mask/anti-lockdown wankersprotesters.

At the peak of the second wave, Victoria was recording over 700 daily cases. As of today, it has had two consecutive days of zero cases and zero deaths.

Its been a hard fought battle but they can finally return to COVID-normal.

Masks+Lockdown+Testing+Contact Tracing works people.
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Old 2020-10-27, 05:16   Link #1068
Key Board
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Sweden's numbers are at a record high.

But they have faith in their nationalized healthcare to handle things.

I personally think they are smug.
I think their perceived moral superiority over other countries gives a misguided sense of invulnerability.

//
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Old 2020-10-27, 06:27   Link #1069
kari-no-sugata II
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^ Deaths aren't rising in Sweden at least. Well, not yet.

On a different note, some reports regarding antibodies:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54696873

I'm not an expert but my general impression is that this sort of decline in antibodies is quite normal in general. ie expecting perfect life-long immunity was highly likely to be overly optimistic.
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Old 2020-10-27, 06:40   Link #1070
TinyRedLeaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
I think their perceived moral superiority over other countries gives a misguided sense of invulnerability.
Sweden's approach has been controversial, but the Swedes may have the last laugh. For one thing, as their experts have predicted, the crippling lockdowns hadn't worked for their fellow Europeans.

That said, I agree the Swedes are wrong in thinking that lockdowns are irrational. As OH&S pointed out, they have worked in Victoria state, and in the rest of Australia. They've also worked in New Zealand.

The common factor here, I think, is that Australia and New Zealand have natural advantages over European countries — both nations are far less densely populated than in Europe, and have maritime boundaries, making it easier for them to prevent imported cases. Of course, it should be noted that natural borders alone are not enough, as the UK has discovered to its dismay.

So, yes, it's not the lockdowns alone that matter. It's a combination of lockdowns to ensure the increase in cases doesn't outstrip healthcare capacity, together with aggressive testing and contact-tracing to ensure that active cases don't go undetected and spread further.

That, in a nutshell, explains why China, Taiwan, South Korea, and Vietnam have been successful in clamping down the outbreak. Taiwan and South Korea, in particular, never went into nationwide lockdowns. Moreover, both territories has far lower death tolls than Sweden — South Korea has 460 deaths, while Taiwan has only seven. Sweden has more than 5,900 deaths, according to Johns Hopkins University.

The Financial Times described it the best: Asian nations' early and decisive action in stemming the infections stands in sharp contrast with Europe's struggle.

One temptation would be to suggest that Asian culture was somehow superior, and rose to the challenge with their greater discipline and trust in government. That was effectively what Japanese Finance Minister Taro Aso claimed earlier this year.

Well, karma's a bitch.

COVID-19 pandemic deepens Japan's national crisis
Quote:
TOKYO (Oct 27, 2020): Tumbling numbers of pregnancies and marriages in Japan during the coronavirus pandemic are likely to intensify a demographic crisis in the rapidly ageing nation.

"I reckon the spread of the coronavirus is having many people worried about getting pregnant, giving birth and rearing babies," Tetsushi Sakamoto, the minister in charge of responses to Japan's declining birthrates, told a news conference on Oct 23.

Recently published official data showed the number of notified pregnancies in the three months to July fell 11.4 per cent from a year earlier, while the number of marriages over the same period dropped 36.9 per cent. The sharp decline in marriages matters because the majority of babies in Japan are born in wedlock.

"This is very serious because negative effects could stay on, with the economic downturn leading to fewer marriages, and then to fewer births," said Hideo Kumano, executive chief economist at Dai-ichi Life Research Institute.

REUTERS
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Old 2020-10-27, 09:46   Link #1071
cyberdemon
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/fox-news-...112603939.html

Looks like several Fox News hosts and executives came in contact with a COVID patient. This will make election night interesting for Fox News.
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Last edited by cyberdemon; 2020-10-27 at 16:10.
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Old 2020-10-27, 10:05   Link #1072
Key Board
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Join Date: Nov 2003
I'm surprised they let that news leak.

//
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Old 2020-10-28, 06:20   Link #1073
kari-no-sugata II
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Old 2020-10-28, 10:49   Link #1074
Key Board
Carbon
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II View Post
^ Deaths aren't rising in Sweden at least. Well, not yet.

On a different note, some reports regarding antibodies:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54696873

I'm not an expert but my general impression is that this sort of decline in antibodies is quite normal in general. ie expecting perfect life-long immunity was highly likely to be overly optimistic.
It depends on the pathogen.

I was recently tested for Hepatitis B immunity and It's still strong despite being vaccinated over 20 years ago.
You need over 9.9 mIU/mL. I had 195 mIU/mL

Meanwhile we need a new vaccine for Influenza every year because the Flu mutates a lot.

also
Quote:
Sweden sets new daily COVID-19 case record as infections surge

https://www.reuters.com/article/heal...-idUSL8N2HJ5RE
Anyway, regardless of Sweden. I think pursuing herd immunity through intentional infection is a bad idea for the US because of our healthcare policy, lack of safety nets, and the wearing masks becoming a partisan issue

//
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"Legitimacy is based on three things. First of all, the people who are asked to obey authority have to feel like they have a voice—that if they speak up, they will be heard. Second, the law has to be predictable. There has to be a reasonable expectation that the rules tomorrow are going to be roughly the same as the rules today. And third, the authority has to be fair. It can’t treat one group differently from another.” Malcolm Gladwell
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Old 2020-10-28, 16:15   Link #1075
Jaden
Witch of Betrayal
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
It depends on the pathogen.

I was recently tested for Hepatitis B immunity and It's still strong despite being vaccinated over 20 years ago.
You need over 9.9 mIU/mL. I had 195 mIU/mL

Meanwhile we need a new vaccine for Influenza every year because the Flu mutates a lot.
Yeah, there was even an H1N1 study showing that some really old people had immunity to the 2009 strain, because they'd been infected by the "spanish flu" back in the 1920s. I'll see if I can find it, because that was really surprising to me.

Edit: not actually true...there have been other H1N1 outbreaks, about one every 10 years, and that's where those people acquired the immunity. And it's possible to have long-lasting immunity to H1N1 specifically, because it has less potential for antigenic drift than the more common types of Influenza A.
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Old 2020-10-28, 21:11   Link #1076
Tempester
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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I live in a certain part of the US which has a big problem with the virus. People all around me are walking in public without wearing masks. When I go shopping I try to keep my distance from people, wait for openings before I pass people, etc. But there are tons of people who just walk straight through me, so close they're almost brushing my shoulder. So many people who have zero care or respect for social health or keeping the virus at bay.

It's so frustrating. The US is in a perilous position where Americans need to follow the rules for their own survival and for the eventual betterment of quality of life, yet all these people around me are just laughing it off and spreading the virus everywhere like they want to watch the world burn. I shouldn't have to feel like the world's putting me in danger when I'm out buying essential goods.
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Old 2020-10-28, 22:29   Link #1077
Guardian Enzo
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Location: Kobe, Japan
America's current crisis summed up perfectly. I'm sorry you have to deal with that.
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Old 2020-10-28, 23:27   Link #1078
Shinji103
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For what it’s worth, I’m fortunate enough to live in a small-ish city where the major majority of people are wearing masks and being conscientious about the virus, yet even here we still have jerks who don’t give a **** about the virus or keeping themselves or others safe, plus Karens who whine about the masks. One old guy I saw complained to a cashier at a department store saying “this whole pandemic is fake, you know how I know? Because I’m a pastor.”

So hopefully you can at least take some consolation in the fact that these idiots are everywhere, even where most being are being smart.
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Old 2020-10-28, 23:58   Link #1079
The Green One
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Sad attitude of humanity. If it doesn't happen to people they personally know, they don't give a shit.
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Old 2020-10-29, 01:55   Link #1080
MeoTwister5
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Age: 35
I live in a 3rd world country. Even barefoot grimy street kids are wearing masks.
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