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Old 2015-08-01, 21:36   Link #7661
azul120
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusaja View Post
As always, that's ultimately a subjective opinion. It depends entirely on each person's expectations and individual analysis of the situation. The same topic has been debated many times over the years and there are multiple interpretations across the Internet that have argued otherwise. And I don't just mean those which assume that Lelouch never actually died in the first place. For a fair amount of people, his death was an absolute necessity in order to complete the character arc, rather than something that troubles them. Yet I won't repeat my own thoughts on the subject at length, because it would be redundant given that we have never agreed.
No, it's fact that there was too little believable justification to bring it to the conclusion. Too much deus angst machina involved. If they were to kill Lelouch, they should have also killed Cornelia and several others, and also outed the responsible BKs as traitorous pussies. Not to mention that it left a still somewhat gullible younger sister as empress. If there's any logical aesop, it's that undeserving people often get ahead in the end.
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Old 2015-08-02, 20:35   Link #7662
Kusaja
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
If there's any logical aesop, it's that undeserving people often get ahead in the end.
Which includes Lelouch, by his own explicit logic, as quite underserving yet still managing to get away with changing the world. It's, you know, a big theme for the entire show. Our protagonist is a liar and a killer after all, regardless of his good intentions. Thus the "family-friendly" aesop would be for him to lose and not win in order to prove that using the wrong means will not be rewarded. Instead, the show does tell us that all his evil actions were worthwhile in the end. He gets to choose his punishment and either dies with a smile on his face or survives in obscurity. Just as he planned.

But I know you don't agree. That's a valid opinion too. Opinions are not facts and neither you nor I can pretend to pass final judgment on such matters. I've already explained in great detail over many posts why I don't follow your way of thinking when it comes to almost every single one of those statements. Instead, I'll leave you with someone else's views from a recent rewatch.

Quote:
So now we’re getting to it. The ending. There’s an running thread throughout the show that Lelouch has become a devil. I believe I’ve mentioned this before, but it’s what makes him different from someone like Light from Death Note. Or, to keep it to Code Geass, what makes him different from Schneizel. He isn’t trying to become a god, because a god implies something positive. The idea that you are a force for good in the world. Lelouch never thought that. The change specifically happened during the “kill all the Japanese” part. There’s a neat little piece of dialogue between him and Kaguya where he says you don’t want to get close to him because he’s [made a contract with] the devil.

Lelouch, in my mind, is dead not necessarily because of plot reasons. Forget all of that nonsense. Lelouch is dead because the story works better thematically from that standpoint. He can’t go on living like the devil. It defeats the purpose of his story. He can’t continue in this world because then he would be like the people he fought against. His redemptive arc ends with him dying. He said before he got the Geass that he was basically living a lie. A fake life anyway and that he only felt alive once he got the Geass. The goal to destroy Britannia was his life. Once he does that, he goes back to not living again.
http://thecartdriver.com/code-geass-...e-cart-driver/

Plus a couple of statistics about what Japanese fans still think after all these years.

Quote:
10,000 Anime Fans Pick Which Character's Death Left the Biggest Impact

2. Lelouch Lamperouge (Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion) 932 votes
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/inte...-impact/.82056

Quote:
Japanese Fans Name Anime and Manga's Most Impactful Endings

1. Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion - 587 votes
http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-new...actful-endings
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Old 2015-08-03, 03:34   Link #7663
azul120
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusaja View Post
Which includes Lelouch, by his own explicit logic, as quite underserving yet still managing to get away with changing the world. It's, you know, a big theme for the entire show. Our protagonist is a liar and a killer after all, regardless of his good intentions. Thus the "family-friendly" aesop would be for him to lose and not win in order to prove that using the wrong means will not be rewarded. Instead, the show does tell us that all his evil actions were worthwhile in the end. He gets to choose his punishment and either dies with a smile on his face or survives in obscurity. Just as he planned.

But I know you don't agree. That's a valid opinion too. Opinions are not facts and neither you nor I can pretend to pass final judgment on such matters. I've already explained in great detail over many posts why I don't follow your way of thinking when it comes to almost every single one of those statements. Instead, I'll leave you with someone else's views from a recent rewatch.



http://thecartdriver.com/code-geass-...e-cart-driver/

Plus a couple of statistics about what Japanese fans still think after all these years.



http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/inte...-impact/.82056



http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-new...actful-endings
All based on opinion.

And again, might I remind you how there were more morally malignant/impeding people who lived on instead (i. e. Cornelia, Villetta)? Lelouch may have done some horrible things, but a lot of what he did during his rebellion as Zero made the peace possible in the first place, most notably the creation of the UFN. If not for him, Britannia would still be calling the shots. He would have been dead long ago and gotten nowhere had he tried playing fair. The same goes double for the rest of the Black Knights. And if not for the betrayal, there would be no Zero Requiem.
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