High School DxD Light Novel - Volume 20

[Biohazardous]

Originally Posted by saw2097

Considering that he is going up against the Rating Game champion, one of the strongest devils in the Underworld.

I would say that he will have to be willing to risk his life in order to beat him.

This is the strongest guy short of Rizevim and Sirzechs that he has fought yet, so playing it safe won't secure victory.

He would gladly lay it down if he knows not doing it will cost the life of the others. They all know he would and it's their fuel to train to help lessen the chance he has to do it to protect them.

[saw2097]

Originally Posted by Chichiryuushintei

Being able to use it doesn't mean he mastered it. Mastering implies he can use it to it's maximum potential without any difficulties, which he can't. CCQ is still far from complete, and he still didn't achieve BB for the Wyverns.

He still has no idea how it works. Not even Azazel does. His dragonification isn't Great Red's ability, it's something othet dragons can do.

He only gained the ability to Dragonify his body after getting the body of Great Red. Before Ddraig did that as a price for using BB, and it didn't give him any further power.

Wyverns aren't another Sacred Gear, they are a part of the Boosted Gear infused with the power of Albion, so their is no balance breaker for the Wyverns.

Originally Posted by Biohazardous

He would gladly lay it down if he knows not doing it will cost the life of the others. They all know he would and it's their fuel to train to help lessen the chance he has to do it to protect them.

Exactly, he is going up against a opponent like Belial, who is extremely powerful, and I seriously doubt that his nullification ability is his only OP ability.

Fighting and playing it safe won't beat him, Ise will need to do something very drastic to bring him down.

[Hokoga]

Originally Posted by Biohazardous

I think he can and will boost them. I don't see him doing it when he gets it then since it will already overwhelm him. If he does boost or has his own version of snakes I see him falling out shortly after doing it. Maybe a warning from Ddraig that he only has seconds of use and he will die or almost die.

So he's going to die because he used his new body's natural abilities, is what your saying

[Chichiryuushintei]

Originally Posted by saw2097

He only gained the ability to Dragonify his body after getting the body of Great Red. Before Ddraig did that as a price for using BB, and it didn't give him any further power.

Wyverns aren't another Sacred Gear, they are a part of the Boosted Gear infused with the power of Albion, so their is no balance breaker for the Wyverns.


Exactly, he is going up against a opponent like Belial, who is extremely powerful, and I seriously doubt that his nullification ability is his only OP ability.

Fighting and playing it safe won't beat him, Ise will need to do something very drastic to bring him down.

It's still a "regular" ability other dragons have, just like breathing fire, but a less common. (or less used, maybe most dragons just dislike human shape)

I'll try to be more clear. If Ise unlocks abilities that belong to 2 of the 3 strongest beings in existence, is able to boost them in the same volume, and somehow doesn't end up in a coma or permanently crippled, it'll be 300% bullshit. LS leaves him weakened for a month for fuck sake!

[saw2097]

Originally Posted by Chichiryuushintei

It's still a "regular" ability other dragons have, just like breathing fire, but a less common. (or less used, maybe most dragons just dislike human shape)

I'll try to be more clear. If Ise unlocks abilities that belong to 2 of the 3 strongest beings in existence, is able to boost them in the same volume, and somehow doesn't end up in a coma or permanently crippled, it'll be 300% bullshit. LS leaves him weakened for a month for fuck sake!

Who says he won't nearly die, were you expecting him to come out of the battle against the Emperor without being left half dead on the ground.

This is the start of the climax, in every climax Ise pays a colossal price, he lost his left arm, burned 99% of his life span, and had to die and come back to life, maybe this is where he pays the price for this climax as the author said the climax starts this volume.

About Dragonification, yes but Ise didn't get it until he got the body of Great Red, so its still a power he got from Great Red.

[Chichiryuushintei]

Originally Posted by saw2097

Who says he won't nearly die, were you expecting him to come out of the battle against the Emperor without being left half dead on the ground.

This is the start of the climax, in every climax Ise pays a colossal price, he lost his left arm, burned 99% of his life span, and had to die and come back to life, maybe this is where he pays the price for this climax as the author said the climax starts this volume.

About Dragonification, yes but Ise didn't get it until he got the body of Great Red, so its still a power he got from Great Red.

Almost dying is not enough.

You realize the fight against Belial doesn't need to be this volume, right? Heck, the whole Rias accepting a RG against Belial in the first place just screams bullshit. If Isr fights against him in the final battle while Vali fights Rizevim, after training it for some time, then I'll be able to buy him having a certain level of control of his new abilities.

But it's not exclusive to Great Red. So it isn't really one of his abilities that makes him the Dragon of Dragons. It's just something that came with the dragonoid body he'd get if it was made with the flesh of any Dragon actually.

[Gary29]

Originally Posted by Chichiryuushintei

Almost dying is not enough.

You realize the fight against Belial doesn't need to be this volume, right? Heck, the whole Rias accepting a RG against Belial in the first place just screams bullshit. If Isr fights against him in the final battle while Vali fights Rizevim, after training it for some time, then I'll be able to buy him having a certain level of control of his new abilities.

But it's not exclusive to Great Red. So it isn't really one of his abilities that makes him the Dragon of Dragons. It's just something that came with the dragonoid body he'd get if it was made with the flesh of any Dragon actually.

Isn't Dragonification more of an Ophis-based ability? Not all Dragons can change into humanoid forms; there's normal Dragons, Tannin who can change his size, Crom who can shift between his Dragon and human forms, and Ophis who can shapeshift into whatever she wants.

[Hokoga]

Originally Posted by Chichiryuushintei

I'll try to be more clear. If Ise unlocks abilities that belong to 2 of the 3 strongest beings in existence, is able to boost them in the same volume, and somehow doesn't end up in a coma or permanently crippled, it'll be 300% bullshit. LS leaves him weakened for a month for fuck sake!

So if Great Red and Ophis had a kid together are saying that the kid is going to end up in a coma or permanently crippled just for using it's own natural abilities?

[Chichiryuushintei]

Originally Posted by Gary29

Isn't Dragonification more of an Ophis-based ability? Not all Dragons can change into humanoid forms; there's normal Dragons, Tannin who can change his size, Crom who can shift between his Dragon and human forms, and Ophis who can shapeshift into whatever she wants.

I don't recall it being said Dragons can't do it. I just took it meaning most don't want to because they don't have a reason to do so.

@Hokoga: Not by their abilities alone. Using their abilities together with another completely different ability that doubles every single aspect about it or enhance it in another broken way? Yes, it must have drawbacks. Plus, his soul is still human and it can be damaged, so there's that. His body may be fine, but if his soul can't take it, he could end up crippled. It was said that if they cloned his body and inserted his soul in it, best case he'd be crippled for life because the soul would reject it.

[Biohazardous]

Originally Posted by Hokoga

So he's going to die because he used his new body's natural abilities, is what your saying

The told it takes will nearly kill him in my opinion. Don't forget his life is bouncing from dead to infinity at the moment. As far as they are concerned they could technically wake up one morning and Ise is dead because his life didn't bounce back to infinity to keep him alive. This has to stabilize and imo unlocking the dormant powers will do just that. He may be in a deep coma on bring of death and then it stabilizes. This is why I also mentioned Kuroka and Koneko possibly playing a part since they can manipulate life force. They could very well be the only reason he doesn't die permanently as the cost of those powers.

Originally Posted by Hokoga

So if Great Red and Ophis had a kid together are saying that the kid is going to end up in a coma or permanently crippled just for using it's own natural abilities?

No those powers would be natural for him in a body made sort of speak to contain it. Ise could barely handle a heavenly dragon at the start. These two beings are waaaaay above heavenly dragon.

[Archilla]

Am I the only one who hopes we eschew the usual "these powers will drain you/could kill you" thing, and maybe this time it's more he has trouble tapping into them or controlling them? Obviously he can't be able to start spamming new OP powers, but maybe he would need to learn more about them, which could lead to interesting conversations with Ophis.

The stamina-drain is just getting kind of same-y. Plus, this new body seems like it'd be tailor made to withstand the powers. I know it's the soul that he's got to worry about, but still.

[Chichiryuushintei]

Originally Posted by GDK1

Am I the only one who hopes we eschew the usual "these powers will drain you/could kill you" thing, and maybe this time it's more he has trouble tapping into them or controlling them? Obviously he can't be able to start spamming new OP powers, but maybe he would need to learn more about them, which could lead to interesting conversations with Ophis.

The stamina-drain is just getting kind of same-y. Plus, this new body seems like it'd be tailor made to withstand the powers. I know it's the soul that he's got to worry about, but still.

Yes, that'd be ideal. Something like, he learns about the abilities, but doesn't know enough to use them in actual battle for some time.

As long as it's not him learning how to put them to practice and being able to beat friggin' Belial in one volume I'm fine with it.

[Biohazardous]

You don't think powers like that could reach your very soul? 2 beings way stronger than Ddraig. That can be overwhelming. Maybe we can better understand this all with volume 20 and have a better way to speculate things.

[Archilla]

Well one thing I know is that this Volume will make me hate Belial even more. Ishibumi has always been good at making you hate his villains, but he's been on his A game recently with Riz and Diehauser.

Not to mention how great of a job TNK did with making Diodora despicable.

[Chris38]

Originally Posted by Biohazardous

You don't think powers like that could reach your very soul? 2 beings way stronger than Ddraig. That can be overwhelming. Maybe we can better understand this all with volume 20 and have a better way to speculate things.

I think that you shouldn't ignore the fact that both Great Red and Ophis might have taken into consideration this issue and have transferred an amount of power that wouldn't endanger Ise's soul.

After all at the point when Ise's current body was being revived he was ... pretty much a soul kept 'alive' within the BG Balance Breaker armor by Great Red's power ... which means that he (and by extension Ophis) should have gotten a quite good amount of data on what Ise's soul tolerance level is ... when it comes to their 'powers'.

So ... unlike you I doubt any dangers to Ise's human soul are going to emerge from Great Red's / Ophis's mixed power ...

In my opinion, the issues regarding Great Red's / Ophis's powers are caused by the fact that they are powers from two beings that have powers which counter each other out (like the situation with Ddraig's and Albion's powers), and that's the reason why Ise's lifespan is currently unstable ... and I believe that it's going to cause some issues when it comes to using and mastering the abilities that are going to emerge from the mixed power of Great Red and Ophis as well.

[Biohazardous]

What do you propose from the power? I honestly would love it to slowly unlock and master. You don't get something for nothing tho. Everything he has gotten has came with a price a price he would gladly play. If that wasn't the norm I wouldn't even worry about it. This won't come free and trust Ise will be more than willing to give anything to use it including his life when he goes to use it.

[Chichiryuushintei]

Originally Posted by Chris38

I think that you shouldn't ignore the fact that both Great Red and Ophis might have taken into consideration this issue and have transferred an amount of power that wouldn't endanger Ise's soul.

After all at the point when Ise's current body was being revived he was ... pretty much a soul kept 'alive' within the BG Balance Breaker armor by Great Red's power ... which means that he (and by extension Ophis) should have gotten a quite good amount of data on what Ise's soul tolerance level is ... when it comes to their 'powers'.

So ... unlike you I doubt any dangers to Ise's human soul are going to emerge from Great Red's / Ophis's mixed power ...

In my opinion, the issues regarding Great Red's / Ophis's powers are caused by the fact that they are powers from two beings that have powers which counter each other out (like the situation with Ddraig's and Albion's powers), and that's the reason why Ise's lifespan is currently unstable ... and I believe that it's going to cause some issues when it comes to using and mastering the abilities that are going to emerge from the mixed power of Great Red and Ophis as well.

That's possible, assuming Ophis actually knows squat about what a soul is in the first place. Which I doubt she does.

[Chris38]

Originally Posted by Biohazardous

What do you propose from the power? I honestly would love it to slowly unlock and master. You don't get something for nothing tho. Everything he has gotten has came with a price a price he would gladly play. If that wasn't the norm I wouldn't even worry about it. This won't come free and trust Ise will be more than willing to give anything to use it including his life when he goes to use it.

I think that a danger to Ise's lifespan would be too repetitive ... since they have been happening, pretty much since the beginning of the story so ... in my opinion the 'price' that Ise would have to initially pay for using Great Red's / Ophis's power would be a 'complete' dragonification of his body and some 'slight' loss of Ise's sanity, due to being overwhelmed by the instincts / nature that dragons have.

Basically a 'berserk mode' similar to Juggernaut Drive, but without a risk to Ise's life (but he might risk harming those around him )

This state would also last for a long period of time (like 5 - 7 days), unless the girls in his harem, would do something related to oppai to bring Ise out of that state, since I believe his 'pervert nature' is strong enough to surpass the instincts / nature that dragons have.

[Chichiryuushintei]

Originally Posted by Chris38

I think that a danger to Ise's lifespan would be too repetitive ... since they have been happening, pretty much since the beginning of the story so ... in my opinion the 'price' that Ise would have to initially pay for using Great Red's / Ophis's power would be a 'complete' dragonification of his body and some 'slight' loss of Ise's sanity, due to being overwhelmed by the instincts / nature that dragons have.

Basically a 'berserk mode' similar to Juggernaut Drive, but without a risk to Ise's life (but he might risk harming those around him )

This state would also last for a long period of time (like 5 - 7 days), unless the girls in his harem, would do something related to oppai to bring Ise out of that state, since I believe his 'pervert nature' is strong enough to surpass the instincts / nature that dragons have.

Hmm, I don't think being crazy berserkers is the nature of Dragons, some just like fighting but it's not a rule (Just see Tannin, he's super honorable, and Ophis is as calm as it can get) specially considering Ise's body is made from the flesh of the guy whose not in the Top 10 Strongest simply because he never fights. When someone pisses him off, he lends his power to someone else fight in his place.

[Biohazardous]

Originally Posted by Chris38

I think that a danger to Ise's lifespan would be too repetitive ... since they have been happening, pretty much since the beginning of the story so ... in my opinion the 'price' that Ise would have to initially pay for using Great Red's / Ophis's power would be a 'complete' dragonification of his body and some 'slight' loss of Ise's sanity, due to being overwhelmed by the instincts / nature that dragons have.

Basically a 'berserk mode' similar to Juggernaut Drive, but without a risk to Ise's life (but he might risk harming those around him )

This state would also last for a long period of time (like 5 - 7 days), unless the girls in his harem, would do something related to oppai to bring Ise out of that state, since I believe his 'pervert nature' is strong enough to surpass the instincts / nature that dragons have.

I could be on board with that however, what do you propose as a solution to stabilize his lifespan? BTW he would have no issue with complete dragonification even permanent. He established that when fighting Riser.

Originally Posted by Chichiryuushintei

Hmm, I don't think being crazy berserkers is the nature of Dragons, some just like fighting but it's not a rule (Just see Tannin, he's super honorable, and Ophis is as calm as it can get) specially considering Ise's body is made from the flesh of the guy whose not in the Top 10 Strongest simply because he never fights. When someone pisses him off, he lends his power to someone else fight in his place.

I think he means in the sense the power overwhelms him since it's too much. Kinda the same reason some of us feel his life is not to much to ask to use their power.