Aquarion EVOL - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll

[KleenexGhost]

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

Hmm...I suppose Amata has a good idea that Mikono likes him, but isn't totally sure. He should be aware by now that Mikono gets jealous sometimes and that when he's caught in compromising situations with other people, there is a need to explain himself to her. There is still the idea that "fate" will mean that Mikono goes for Kagura in the end anyway, so even if Amata thinks she likes him, Kagura would still seem like a serious threat, someone who could be able to take Mikono if he had the chance.

Except that in regard to fate they're the same person, but apparently that has slipped both Amata and Kagura's minds.



Talking to people rationally? In Aquarion? Pfft.

I maintain that if the characters had any sense and were allowed to talk things out, Izumo would have had the whole Altair-Vega problem settled years ago and there wouldn't be any fighting. (...Except maybe from Kagura, since he'd likely still be a puppet of Mykage.)

Hey it is Aquarion. Anything can happen in the last 4 episodes.

[Zuul]

Originally Posted by Vena

(Though I don't understand why she couldn't just jump and get their attention. They can both stop her, and it would break up the fight instantly... and then she's not on a tower anymore. And can get between them.

But, this requires too much thinking.)

I would never do such a thing. It's survival instinct preceding her trust in either boys. Trust they don't deserve because they treat her like an object.

[Destined_Fate]

It is strange that they just had a talk about being the same guy than they had Amata and Kagura arguing the next scene and ignore that revelation. You would think they would have had more reaction than...

"I'm you!"
"Hey, it's Mikono... MINE! SHE'S MINE!!! YOU NO HAVE, OTHER ME!".

[KleenexGhost]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

It is strange that they just had a talk about being the same guy than they had Amata and Kagura arguing the next scene and ignore that revelation. You would think they would have had more reaction than...

"I'm you!"
"Hey, it's Mikono... MINE! SHE'S MINE!!! YOU NO HAVE, OTHER ME!".

They're sprung to say the least

[mayumi]

It seems the triangle isn't really what is important to zen or mykage but what is important to them is new page gets added to book of genesis and their banking it on zessica. the ending picture, the chosen element all points to her character just solving a stupid dispute from 24000 yrs ago.

after which mikage-zessica-fudo ride off into sunset with aquarion.

anyway the whole concept of zero, i am not sure where it came from. when fudo gen asked silvia that question all she got was its warm which is what mikono says as well. the planets merge and then what happens? they start life all over again? zessica is likely the only person who has her positive and negative, dark and light, holy and profane, so she is whole. maybe even the new chosen legend.

[KleenexGhost]

@mayumi

That's not a bad ending.

[Vena]

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

Hmm...I suppose Amata has a good idea that Mikono likes him, but isn't totally sure. He should be aware by now that Mikono gets jealous sometimes and that when he's caught in compromising situations with other people, there is a need to explain himself to her. There is still the idea that "fate" will mean that Mikono goes for Kagura in the end anyway, so even if Amata thinks she likes him, Kagura would still seem like a serious threat, someone who could be able to take Mikono if he had the chance.

I think the jealousy is a double-edge sword as far as the audience is concerned because (while we're supposedly told she has trouble expressing herself, apparently in every way but this one... -_-') we very rarely actually see a recoup on the jealousy and the scene just transitions away from it as if it never happened... specifically the last time we had any jealousy scenes which was five episodes ago and the one before it as well. Jealousy strikes in both cases but the subsequent scenes never touch on it again. But let's say that jealousy is a good indicator, Amata doesn't seem to have taken it as such because he's always down about the whole thing.

Ep. 16 is really the big one (before it, Kagura was an elephant in the room which neither of the main leads would bring up... that's a bad way to show confidence in your relationship. Its even worse when in the several times when someone pokes at Mikono for her relationship with Amata, she evades answering and those scenes are even juxtaposed to Zessica noting her less than stellar commitment). During the initial part of Ep. 16 you have Amata trying to eavesdrop on Mikono for answers (shows he's certainly not very certain), has Amata trying to emulate Kagura (if she likes Amata, why would this be necessary? If he knows she likes him, then Amata should be himself, not Kagura), and then he's just completely lost in the following battle sequence and the one to give him support (as seems to be her sole role in the show) was Zessica. After this he gets really, really broken up about fate and things get worse from there. Amata and Mikono barely interact after this except for two key scenes:
Mikono's jumping the gun on Kagura and running away from Amata when he tried to explain away her actions.
And the infamous: "Amata, I have something to tell you... but I'll tell you later!" "Woe is us, Amata and Zessica are suffering!"

They don't interact after that until this episode.

So, having said all that, color me impressed if somehow Amata went from "I'm so worried about Mikono's feelings!" to "I know with certainty how she feels about me!" with any real justification for his newfound certainty aside from because the writers deemed it necessary. (Factor in his "Mikono was calling me!" which never happened and he's very much obsessed with her last episode, and that really creepy dream... I don't think we're supposed to pull anything from this episode other than that both of are obsessive loons fighting over the girl. I want to believe this, I really do, because then maybe this episode wasn't completely looney but, you know what, maybe its best I reserve judgment until later (kuro was right) this may all be a giant lampshade.)

Kuro come save me from this... hit me over the head so that I don't wake up for a few months.

Spoiler for Someone correct me if I'm wrong:

In this episode, when Kagura has Amata pinned against the wall. Two lines are said by Amata as reinforcement to himself. The first line, if I remember correctly, is actually Amata's own line from Ep. 12 but that gets crushed firmly by Kagura. The second line, that he actually does anything with to fight back with, he's parroting Zessica.

And so it continues that Amata's own motivations are crushed but he has the convenient Zessica to support him in his chase for Mikono.

Wooo! Either this is a brilliant case of backhandedly showing that Amata is weak (along mike's idea) or they're just through shit around cause it looks cool.

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

Except that in regard to fate they're the same person, but apparently that has slipped both Amata and Kagura's minds.

The important details seem to slip the characters' minds when its convenient, only appearing when it is useful for the plot.

[Destined_Fate]

Originally Posted by mayumi

It seems the triangle isn't really what is important to zen or mykage but what is important to them is new page gets added to book of genesis and their banking it on zessica. the ending picture, the chosen element all points to her character just solving a stupid dispute from 24000 yrs ago.

after which mikage-zessica-fudo ride off into sunset with aquarion.

anyway the whole concept of zero, i am not sure where it came from. when fudo gen asked silvia that question all she got was its warm which is what mikono says as well. the planets merge and then what happens? they start life all over again? zessica is likely the only person who has her positive and negative, dark and light, holy and profane, so she is whole. maybe even the new chosen legend.

Mykage doesn't like Zessica, he's using her for a reason - Aquarion. If she wasn't special he would have discarded her like he discarded Jin when he became a problem. After all, Mykage didn't want Zessica to get "that" close to Amata and separated them when she was about to make her own promise to him. Than tormenting her with a fake Amata, maybe to remind her that she's not supposed to have him, since that gets in the way of the real legend that Mykage wants to happen, and that she's just his little toy that's only alive because she's a useful toy.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Vena

Well let's be fair here:

(1.) Kagura didn't start the fight and he was fairly calmly explaining his past and his interests even if in the same cocky tone he usually runs with. Its Amata who starts the fight, the one who comes off as unreasonable is Amata.

(2.) He could, you know, explain this to Kagura instead of attacking him the moment he says kuso onna. You'd think that Kagura, who is quite touchy feely with Mikono, would care.

Those are fair points, but I think that Amata (and probably most of his new friends amongst the main cast, thus supporting his assessments) has already wrote off Kagura as some wild, destructive beast you can't reason with based on his extensive, previous experience with Kagura.

Was that a smart choice on Amata's part? Maybe not. Maybe if he told Kagura what would happen if he brought Mikono to Altair that might at least cause Kagura to hesitate a bit and have some second thoughts.

But I can get why Amata doesn't view Kagura as someone he can reason with.

Do they though? Its very hard to say because Mikono's never given a straight answer to Amata's inquiries, and leaves him hanging with nothing when she goes off to look for Fudo. If they know what they feel for one another then that sequence is nonsensical as is her "making Amata suffer" quip which just infuriates. (And come on Triple_R, you cannot have it both ways: Is Mikono into Amata or is she torn between the two guys. If she's torn then Amata only has the assumption that she likes him and only him. Its one or the other here.)

Well, we can't forget that Kagura started out as an enemy mecha-pilot raining down death and destruction. The very idea that Mikono could like the guy would probably seem too preposterous to even consider to most of the protagonists in this show. Plus, everybody treats Kagura as a severe threat to Mikono.


But, in any event, I get your point. There's a certain inconsistency in Amata's actions, and in Mikono's actions.

A lot of the problems of this anime, imo, comes down to the fact that the anime doesn't know if it wants to showcase a straight-up romance, or if it wants real romance drama. So by not going completely with either, both get half-assed. Kagura and Zessica don't come off as serious threats to Amata/Mikono, but nor does Amata/Mikono come off as all that compelling because they spend so much time half-assing the romance quadrangle. You have this glaring character inconsistency because part of the time Amata and Mikono act like they're already "an item", and the other part of the time there's uncertainty surrounding them.

This anime would have been so much better off if it just went with straight-up romance, or if it instead went with a serious love triangle where we'd see and feel Amata being truly conflicted between Mikono and Zessica.

[miketyson]

Vena: you're right about the second line. The first is Amata quoting or paraphrasing his mom's line from the movie (he used it before as a comic cheesy pick-up line, fwiw). This is why I say he's shallow (and meant to be seen as such): he basically has no thoughts of his own.

So I think you're right about that one, as was Kagura: he's still got jack and squat on the "his own thoughts/feelings front", and I'd be shocked if it's *not* intentionally being written that way to convey that specific idea.

[Zuul]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Mykage doesn't like Zessica, he's using her for a reason - Aquarion. If she wasn't special he would have discarded her like he discarded Jin when he became a problem. After all, Mykage didn't want Zessica to get "that" close to Amata and separated them when she was about to make her own promise to him. Than tormenting her with a fake Amata, maybe to remind her that she's not supposed to have him, since that gets in the way of the real legend that Mykage wants to happen, and that she's just his little toy that's only alive because she's a useful toy.

Though he is using her, I feel like Mykage can empathize with her somehow. It feel like he has been though some very painful love deception.

[Destined_Fate]

Originally Posted by Zuul

Though he is using her, I feel like Mykage can empathize with her somehow. It feel like he has been though some very painful love deception.

Sure he can emphasis with her(Most likely he had love denied to him as well, don't change he wants everyone to suffer so he gets what he wants) but that doesn't change that she's just a means to an end to him, he could care less if she's happy. In fact he's purposely went out of his way to constantly remind her that she can't be happy since he wont allow her to get with Amata because Mykage needs the old Legend(Amata and Mikono) to get what he wants. Zessica winning and gaining happiness would be a huge thorn in his plans and he reminds her of that by punishing her when she was getting close to breaking through to Amata's thick skull or even trying to start a legend between them for the next cycle.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Vena

I kid you not when I predict myself to be highly underwhelmed by any sort of (inevitable) declaration from Mikono when they've put so much focus and suffering on Zessica's. Compare and contrast:
>Two guys, both love you, you're torn and cannot make up your mind, but everyone loves you, you run away from making a decision.
>You love one guy, he doesn't love you, a gay fabulous angel is fucking with your head, but you throw your life in front of his to keep him safe.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why I should care about Mikono.[/SPOILER]

No-one says you should care about her? Again, we're looking at this from POVs so different I don't see how they could be reconciled. ^^;; As I said in a comment about an earlier episode, I kind of see why Mikono is behaving way she is (apart from the obvious "plot" reasons), and while I'm not saying she's doing the right thing I can't judge her so hard as you or most people here. (Especially because I've seen similar situations play out around me.) Frankly, I'm looking forward to see what she'll do when she finally gets her act together.

As for Zessica, well - sorry but what I see is an in-your-face uber martyrdom with a lethal dose of wangst and a promising character getting reduced to a ball of "pity me for I am tragically in love and this is what defines my entire existence." I can't sympathize with this, not after it reached this point. The last character I've seen who could pull something like this off well was Saint-Just in Oniisama he, and that's because despite everything she managed to be a compelling character.

Spoiler for Gankutsuou/Count of Monte Cristo:

With Zessica I keep getting flashbacks to Franz in Gankutsuou, who was so perfect that I took up calling him Saint Francis of Epinay, and even his love martyrdom was treated more gracefully and in a less ridiculous way than Zessica's... and Franz has been silently and unrequitedly in love for ten years at least, looked out for his love interest and tried to protect him even when the other didn't appreciate it at all and brushed him off, died for him in a very brutal and painful way, and went out with a heartbreaking smile. His dramatic final scene made me roll my eyes so much I thought they'd fall out, and still he wasn't as bad as Zessica. So yeah.

(But I do envy her for Mykage's kiss. Oh, that feathery bastard, why must he be so pretty.)

Originally Posted by Vena

Kuro come save me from this... hit me over the head so that I don't wake up for a few months.

*redies toy hammer* *boing* ^^;; eh, didn't work, now you have to watch it!

Originally Posted by Vena

In this episode, when Kagura has Amata pinned against the wall. Two lines are said by Amata as reinforcement to himself. The first line, if I remember correctly, is actually Amata's own line from Ep. 12 but that gets crushed firmly by Kagura. The second line, that he actually does anything with to fight back with, he's parroting Zessica.

He wasn't parroting Zessica - he just based his speech on the info he got from her (as it was Zessica who told him that the movie was based on a true story and he and Mikono weren't meant for each other). Of course one might ask (as I did back then) how Zessica knew that all that stuff was true, why neither Mikono nor Amata thought of actually doing some research to learn whether it's true or not before accepting it as hard truth, and also why no-one, including Zessica and Kagura wonders about how on earth the movie managed to be a (likely mostly) faithful retelling of something that happened 12000 ys ago and which really sounds like a load of bullcrap... but this is Aquarion.

Originally Posted by Vena

The important details seem to slip the characters' minds when its convenient, only appearing when it is useful for the plot.

And finally-- you see what I was complaining about way back. ^^;;

(Also, sorry I'm not really following the discussion - the opinions and attitudes are mostly very far from my own and I'm tired of arguing and reading about people hating on characters I like... I just noticed the above because I noticed my name. ^^;; )

[mayumi]

Being the third pilot of aquarion sucks. They have to put up with bullshit love story between the other 2 pilots and mostly feel left out. I think fudo gen might have felt that 24000 yrs ago, reika in ova/scorpius, touma. All these characters likely suffer just like zessica cause they can't escape from the bullshit love story between the 2 fated lovers.

[SolarAquarion]

Who does Mykage hate and why is it so important?

[Vena]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Mikono... Zessica

When it boils down to it, we see different thing in the different characters (go figure, we're different people with different views and biases) and I don't actually like how either character is being handled barring some massive "Oh my god, wtf bbq!" twist at the end that simply is so overwhelming that it shatters my spine with its AWESOME!

I simply like Mikono less because (and especially at this point of her just oscillating between development and not like a pendulum timed to the plot), as I've said time and again, she just rubs me the wrong way. Zessica's development is just grating on my nerves by this point and, as I said last week, taking her out last episode would have been a good moment to do so. (She'd have had everything she wanted and died, and we'd be spared seeing more of her just getting dragged along.) When I compare the two girls, I just see what I said before: one girl with everything that cannot make up her mind, and one girl with nothing who cannot catch a break. Both of these things have been repeated ad over and over: Mikono's been deciding, making up her mind, being confusing and vague since episode 5, and Zessica's been trudging along through the dirt since episode 8. (If Zessica isn't going to somehow win Amata's heart, why did this not end at 17/18/19? Why did this not end at 21? (Never you mind what sized ass they'd need to pull her winning from.) I've seen harems with more decisive developments than this show. The show is just sending mixed messages all over the place because it can seemingly never wrap up a plot line without killing people, but then when its given that chance, it skirts around the issue and just keep moving along.)

I've lost my patience with Mikono because she's been in what I call a favorable position but doing nothing, while I'm running thin on patience with Zessica who's been in quicksand trying to fight her way out. For me, its been easier to root for the latter but, inevitably, they are both turning into a drag. It's not so much the characters (I don't hide my bias that I like Zessica as a character more than Mikono) its that the writers have dragged this on like snails on a salt strip. (And, like I said before, I honestly don't understand why bring in Zessica. She doesn't seem to have any impact on this triangle aside from being Amata's support. Just make Andy do that. So either this is some massive deconstruction ala mike's idea that just being handled very, very slowly... or they just have no clue what the fuck they are doing at times.)

The past couple of episodes had given me some hope that our characters would start doing new stuff (hence why I wasn't posting, I don't post much when happy: Amata finds his mom? Izumo does stuff? Symbolism episode? Kagura does stuff? Omg! Things might happen...) but nope, this episode kicked me square in the crotch for expecting anything more than cheap drama and two guys having their dick measuring contest.

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

He wasn't parroting Zessica - he just based his speech on the info he got from her (as it was Zessica who told him that the movie was based on a true story and he and Mikono weren't meant for each other). Of course one might ask (as I did back then) how Zessica knew that all that stuff was true, why neither Mikono nor Amata thought of actually doing some research to learn whether it's true or not before accepting it as hard truth, and also why no-one, including Zessica and Kagura wonders about how on earth the movie managed to be a (likely mostly) faithful retelling of something that happened 12000 ys ago which really sounds like a load of bullcrap... but this is Aquarion.

Seemed to me like he very much was or that the scene came off to me as a juxtaposition and criticism of Amata's character. The two lines he says, one is his moms and the one he's purported himself in the past, and that one gets crushed by Kagura. The other is based heavily on what Zessica told him and he uses it as a push off. (Never mind my confusing as to what the hell happened to his Detachment Wings which, last time I checked, made him immune to Kagura.)

But, we'll not agree so let's not agree and FIGHT TO THE DEATH with candy.

[kuromitsu]

Well, one thing I can agree with you on: Mikono not noticing the great position she is in. She really needs Sazanka to bring this to her attention. By putting her Connecting People power to good use she could've already solved this mess in a most satisfactory way (for me, anyway). Amata-kun, Kagura-kun, make love not war, and all that? *is shot*

[Maximillionus]

I like how Crea is a vampire lolli

I like how shrade will probaly die as one of the pilots in Legendary Aquarion searching for his perfect melody. I mean is it not obvious yet that when the Legendary Aquarion saves the world Shrade will find the melody, would be the perfect stage. XD. Sorry crea that means you wont hear it unless he's not one of the pilots.

speaking of useless characters so far Alicia and Crea haven't done anything important.

And speaking of usless scenes when both kagura and Amata confront each other in the last episode on the bridge they both say "your me." I think there stands to be a correction. Amata should of said I'm me and your just a rogue part of me that got away.

Also looking forward to how Izumo will fail on getting his hands on Mikono, maybe another scene with him in a Machine angel getting wooped by mykage or Kagura.

seriously if Alicia doesn't do something in these last episodes I'm going to punch a hole in the wall (lol).

Also have people established yet that the scenes Zessica and kagura saw about silvie and apollon are just mind fucks by Mykage? Cause the only visions I trust are of Ceyannes, and the ones Aquarion showed of the past series.

[Maximillionus]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Well, one thing I can agree with you on: Mikono not noticing the great position she is in. She really needs Sazanka to bring this to her attention. By putting her Connecting People power to good use she could've already solved this mess in a most satisfactory way (for me, anyway). Amata-kun, Kagura-kun, make love not war, and all that? *is shot*

idk. I would just hate to see this series ruined by them hating each other this whole time to magically in the last episodes to make up, it just would seem to sudden and fake sense there both fighting for Mikono. I can only see one of them getting Mikono and the other dying or (I will hate if they do this) somehow rejoin Kagura to Amata together into one.

[kuromitsu]

...I was just joking. ^^;;

(It's not like they'd do that, anyway. Besides, Cayenne and Shrade are already occupy the homo-homo chara slot.)