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View Poll Results: Should the British Remain or Leave the EU.
Remain 24 55.81%
Leave 19 44.19%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2017-05-02, 15:16   Link #681
Dextro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Market Access was the only practical reason why anyone wanted to join.

However, the original goal was a United Europe, an ideological wish to stop new wars between nations.

The ideological dream was the only reason Greece was invited. They literally couldn't have left Greece out because and I quote EU leadership "They invented democracy!".

But ideological dreams just can't survive on its own. Especially in lean times. And hence Germany was forced to crucify Greece and kill democracy there, after knowingly allow Greece to join against their own rules.
Or, more precisely, the Cold War was a thing and the US was very eager to avoid having Greece fall to the other side of the Iron Curtain.
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Old 2017-05-03, 03:49   Link #682
DracoS
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And now they want us to pay even more money!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7714436.html

And these goes any chance of a postive end to this.
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Old 2017-05-03, 05:00   Link #683
James Rye
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Well, you gotta pay for what you committed. You can't just sign a contract and then two years later say "haha, we changed leadership, fuck you guys we won't pay for anything anymore but expect to keep the same rights as we had before". NOBODY in the business world would do business with such partners. Also Barnier just said that the figure which UK has to pay is still not fully calculated, the 100bn number came from the Financial Times and who knows where they got this number from.
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Old 2017-05-03, 05:11   Link #684
Botan_TM
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Nope, just British press is worth less than freaking toilet paper.

Quote form your article

Quote:
The EU has reportedly raised the opening price of the UK’s “Brexit bill” to €100bn (84bn), according to new analysis of latest French and German demands.
Ok, let's dig deeper. Who have made such report and basing on what?

https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/68w2go/brussels_hoists_gross_brexit_bill_to_up_to_100bn/dh1qwpd

Quote:
The EU has raised its opening demand for Britain’s Brexit bill to an upfront gross payment of up to €100bn, according to Financial Times analysis of new stricter demands driven by France and Germany.
OK, so British newspaper made some analysis on internal EU members talks.
So maybe let's check, what will be sent to UK and when.
Quote:
Estimates of Britain’s Brexit bill are highly variable because they include assumptions on Britain’s exit date, its proper share of contributions, UK receipts such as its budget rebate or EU investment spending, and the type of liabilities it is expected to honour. European diplomats consider this flexibility as helpful in reaching a deal.
[...]
Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator, has said no figure will be set until the end of the Brexit process and payments could be staggered. But he wants Britain to agree a methodology before trade talks can begin, including a definition of EU liabilities the UK would be expected to share. He will unveil a draft negotiating mandate — including the Brexit bill assumptions — on Wednesday.
The best what British can do is to stop reading their manipulative clickbating press.
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Old 2017-05-06, 06:10   Link #685
DracoS
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Well all the diffrent British media outlets are treating that figure as what the EU wants. The Right Winged are typically using as example of a unreasonable bulling EU, while the Left Winged ones are treating it as sign of how terrable Brexit is for the UK.

It's been pretty damaging to the EU. And it really doesn't help that Junker seems to fit every negative image of the EU ever.
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Old 2017-05-06, 06:33   Link #686
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DracoS View Post
It's been pretty damaging to the EU.
No it hasn't. The vote's over, the article50's been triggered - we don't have to care what you think any more.
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Old 2017-05-13, 08:17   Link #687
James Rye
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BJ wants the EU to pay for Brexit. Geez, the Tory and Ukip voters are gonna love that one. *rolls eyes*
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Old 2017-05-14, 04:03   Link #688
Botan_TM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Rye View Post
BJ wants the EU to pay for Brexit. Geez, the Tory and Ukip voters are gonna love that one. *rolls eyes*
I guess before British elections there is no point in any negotiations anyway... A few wasted months.
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Old 2017-05-14, 05:02   Link #689
DracoS
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French and Germans are busy with there own anyway, likely why May decided to call it now.
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Old 2017-05-18, 05:55   Link #690
James Rye
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Hahaha, the Tories just made a "Death tax" pledge in their manifesto. Holy shit, hahaha. They want to build 1,5 million houses (total BS) and when you are dead your house value will be taken into the measure to pay for your health care, meaning a lot of owned houses by the eldery will be lost for their children. Crazy shit, even the Daily Mail readers are furious about it and they have such a hard-on for Brexit that they have been cumming nonstop since the referendum. xD xD XD
Sad thing though is that May will get away with it. Their lead is just too strong for Corbyn and Labour to catch up, especially given how poorly Labour does to make up their image by going more and more left alienating even the center voters.
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Old 2017-05-18, 18:59   Link #691
Eisdrache
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Perhaps I am unfamiliar with the British health care system but how do you pay for health care if you're dead, assuming you weren't in debt before?

Also given how unrealistic it seems to be to build 1.5 million houses, how realistic is it for this death tax to be actually used in the first place?
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Old 2017-05-18, 21:04   Link #692
Ithekro
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To cover the cost of the funeral and maybe the medical bills associated with the person's death? That is all I can think of presently. Unless the system is falling behind due to people living far longer than they are working and thus not generating taxes for the system?
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Old 2017-05-31, 08:42   Link #693
James Rye
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxN1STgQXW8

Looks like this might get first place in the charts. xD
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Old 2017-05-31, 22:13   Link #694
MrTerrorist
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Rivals attack May for missing TV debate

This is not gonna help May since it makes it look like the PM talks big but won't face her opponents when confronted.
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Old 2017-06-01, 12:53   Link #695
Dextro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
Rivals attack May for missing TV debate

This is not gonna help May since it makes it look like the PM talks big but won't face her opponents when confronted.
On the other hand showing up to a debate carries far more risk than advantages for a weak candidate. We've actually had a similar situation in the previous election here in Portugal: the incumbent candidate (former Prime Minister Passos Coelho) adopted a strategy of lowering exposure to the maximum and it worked. Basically the opposition ended up talking completely alone and that tired the electorate. In the end he managed to win the most seats out of all the parties but, without a majority and given our parliamentary system, that meant he was unable to secure a stable government coalition and lost the Prime Minister position to the opposition party.

It's actually a surprisingly effective tactic. You basically force the public to tire of your opposition by simple virtue of allowing them to over-expose themselves. It's seriously impressive.
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Old 2017-06-01, 14:19   Link #696
Toukairin
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In my personal view, I say it shows utter disrespect for the electorate when one candidate chooses to hide like a coward rather than face the music. And in the current situation where the gap has been narrowed to 3 points, that was the last thing May should have done.
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Old 2017-06-08, 16:49   Link #697
Toukairin
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According to exit polls, here is the political landscape as of now:

Conservative: 314
Labour: 266 (improved by 34 seats compared to last election)
Liberal-Democrat: 14
UKIP: 0 (up yours, Farage and Nuttall)
SNP: 34 (the SNP apparently lost more seats than expected)
Other: 22

Even if the Tories still remain the largest party, it is safe to say that Theresa May lost her gamble since she is far from getting that big majority she wanted. The Tories would form a minority government right now. As for the Labour Party, they are not there yet even though the improvement is remarkable. However, a couple of coalitions between Labour and other parties would shift the balance of power. The game's afoot.

On this note, I will leave Gary Lineker's Twitter reaction for you to read: I think Theresa May has won own goal of the season.

Last edited by Toukairin; 2017-06-08 at 17:36.
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Old 2017-06-08, 17:11   Link #698
DracoS
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Least she's got more time to get Brexit right without worrying about a General Election while she still setting up new deals. We'll know in the morning how close the polls are to reality, but it seems May still PM at least.

Not surprised SNP doing worse through. A super pro-EU leader leading a party that wants a independent Scotland always struck me as a bit before you even started doing the maths of how a post Britain Scotland in the EU economy would work with a newly created hard border with England and the likely lack of England/EU trade deal.
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Old 2017-06-08, 17:27   Link #699
Arabesque
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toukairin View Post
According to exit polls, here is the political landscape as of now:

Conservative: 314
Labour: 266 (improved by 34 seats compared to last election)
Liberal-Democrat: 14
UKIP: 0 (up yours, Farage and Nuttall)
SNP: 34 (the SNP apparently lost more seats than expected)
Other: 22
This already makes it a victory, so far as I'm concerned. UKIP at zero gives me life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toukairin View Post
Even if the Tories still remain the largest party, it is safe to say that Theresa May lost her gamble since she is far from getting that big majority she wanted. The Tories would form a minority government right now. As for the Labour Party, they are not there yet even though the improvement is remarkable. However, a couple of coalitions between Labour and other parties would shift the balance of power. The game's afoot.
It is actually shocking to me how much the Tories, and May in particular, blew it. This was more or less a sure thing had you asked me a month ago, and yet the campaign she ran was so bad it almost felt like she was intentionally crippling her lead.

I mean, I am personally glad that May ended up falling on her face after all the nonsense she pulled, but man, this is not the result I though would happen.

Of course, we are still unsure what the actual result will be, but I do feel that regardless, this is it for May's premiership. Fittingly enough, she ended up the same way her former boss, Cameron, ended falling: by making a gambit that cost the, everything.

I don't know if a coalition is possible at this juncture with Labour, if only because forming it is going to be severely complicated and time consuming, something the UK doesn't have time to deal with at the moment with negotiations being underway. But crazier things have happened so, we shall see if Labour can bring in all the minor parties to the table.

One thing is for sure, I think that we might have to face the possibility of Boris making a move to lead the party or if the Tories do remain in power, Prime Minister. Which might be things becoming worse because of this result

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toukairin View Post
On this note, I will leave Gary Lineker's Twitter reaction for you to read: I think Theresa May has won own goal of the season.
I have been hearing a lot of jokes tonight about that

"Guess now with May out, it's June's shot at being PM"

Quote:
Originally Posted by DracoS View Post
Not surprised SNP doing worse through. A super pro-EU leader leading a party that wants a independent Scotland always struck me as a bit before you even started doing the maths of how a post Britain Scotland in the EU economy would work with a newly created hard border with England and the likely lack of England/EU trade deal.
SNP's problem with messaging, planning and clarity shine through yet again, indeed. They could have crafted an intelligent message out of it ... but they didn't, appearing contradictory instead.

It's not like there wasn't a way for them to capitalise on this moment to makes gains, but yeah, it seems IndyRef2 is a no go as of now.

For the situation with the border, a hard border between England and Scotland would have been harmful to Scotland more so, but just as painful for the English as well. That and I do think that the idea that Scotland actually wants to remain in both the UK and the EU is more important than breaking free on their own (without a guarantee of even being in the EU, to add).
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Old 2017-06-08, 21:01   Link #700
Arabesque
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Things seems to be developing to the favour of the Tories, but it's still up in the air atm.

But Nick Clegg just lost his seat. Very conflicted feelings, but still feel mostly bad for the guy.
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