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Old 2017-05-10, 02:28   Link #661
FlareKnight
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At least we got a DBZ reference?

Just felt like a goofy episode that they threw in there because they have to make a certain number and had no more plot ideas left to run with. I can get that they want to have a fun episode...but they've kind of made that impossible with the overly heavy feeling of the season in general.

And now Savitar exists....because he exists. I still wanted to pull for him being Ronnie or maybe a version of Barry resentful of what happened via Flash Point.

But oh well. We've got our speed bazooka, multiple romances being juggled at the same time, and set for the big conflict. If Caitlin turns on Savitar then I'll be fine with the fact that they just let her walk out despite the fact that....they've been spending all this time and effort trying to find her and she's currently helping Savitar...who wants to kill Iris.
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Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
He's a forensic scientist, so he has to be somewhat smart. It's just that he's written by Arrowverse writers, so he has to do inexplicably stupid and OC things occasionally so that the plot can progress.
Yeah, that's fair. After this episode it's safe to say Barry is probably smart, but he and everyone else are made chronically dumb whenever the plot requires it.
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Old 2017-05-10, 04:48   Link #662
Hakaishin
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H.R and Tracy are so cute together
Ok amnesiac Barry was funny, I laughed at how he reacted to "I'm your brother"
Spoiler for next episode trailer:

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Originally Posted by Wandering Soul View Post
^ I wonder what he thinks of Super.
He must have had a massive orgasm after seeing all those time travel mess in Zamasu arc
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Old 2017-05-10, 11:44   Link #663
Kanon
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I was right not to think too much about Savitar's origin because the writers clearly haven't either. He explains at the beginning of the episode that when you do enough time travel, the rules stop applying to you and mentions Thawne still existing despite Eddie killing himself as an example of that, yet he says he still needs to create himself and he's later affected by Barry's memory loss.

The effect of the memory loss made no sense either. It apparently changed the past since Wally didn't have powers anymore, yet nobody's memories were affected and Savitar was still there.
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Old 2017-05-10, 13:56   Link #664
Wandering Soul
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I was right not to think too much about Savitar's origin because the writers clearly haven't either. He explains at the beginning of the episode that when you do enough time travel, the rules stop applying to you
I'm pretty sure that was actually the Arrowverse writer's way of saying"We know our time travel rules make no sense, but just go with it".
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Old 2017-05-10, 14:14   Link #665
Hakaishin
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I don't think they're completely done with the explanation, I'm expecting some more details in the next episodes. Savitar did say he needs one more thing other than Iris' death.
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Old 2017-05-10, 15:40   Link #666
TnAdct1
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Spoiler for next episode trailer:
Spoiler for Next Week's Episode:
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Old 2017-05-16, 20:03   Link #667
GDB
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Well, that was emotional.
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Old 2017-05-17, 00:17   Link #668
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I love how the solution to all of this was as simple as doing nothing and not showing up. Seriously, all season long has shown us that by them trying to save Iris, by doing something, all they up doing is following the predetermined path set in front of them.

What has Savitar been telling Barry all along? "I need you to witness me killing Iris so that I can be born", now what if Barry refused to go? What if he had decided to not see Savitar kill her? It's interesting how ignoring the problem seems to be the best course of action to take.
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Old 2017-05-17, 06:16   Link #669
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Savitar has also proven to be Barry's better in a fight and race. Unless Barry just ran to another Earth and kept running, Savitar WOULD catch up and force him to watch, even if he had to be beaten to a pulp first.
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Old 2017-05-17, 11:48   Link #670
Kanon
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HR made a big mistake but he can be forgiven since he was tricked. Anybody could have fallen for it (I did!). Joe shouldn't have told them where he was going anyway. It would have been better to keep it a secret from everybody just in case.

Barry, on the other hand, made a really idiotic decision letting Cisco go after Killer Frost alone. Not only because he should already know the tragedy that awaits Cisco, but more importantly because this was an obvious plan to divide team Flash's forces. Killer Frost was waiting in the middle of a forest, no harm in leaving her alone for the time being. Gipsy has proven that Vibe's powers can be very efficient against speedsters, he should have been there as well.
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Old 2017-05-17, 12:16   Link #671
germanturkey
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well, no. HR shouldn't have told barry anyways, because everything barry knows, evil barry knows. it shouldn't have slipped out in the first place.
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Old 2017-05-17, 13:00   Link #672
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Savitar has also proven to be Barry's better in a fight and race. Unless Barry just ran to another Earth and kept running, Savitar WOULD catch up and force him to watch, even if he had to be beaten to a pulp first.
Barry goes into the speedforce (you know, the place Savitar is scared of) and stays in there for some time, the time limit passes and the future changes affecting Savitar or he could just change places with Jay until (once again) Savitar is affected by the change.
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Old 2017-05-18, 01:22   Link #673
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I don't really blame HR....since in reality they should have seen this kind of trick coming. They know he is Barry. They should have had an obvious agreement in the first place of "don't tell me where Iris is until we beat Savitar." Plus HR is an idiot and I can't hold it against him. Not like he wanted to be inherently a fool.

Or heck, wasn't there a legitimate option of hiding Iris in Argus? If they have an anti-meta field thing wouldn't that still work? Savitar's suit might be special, but if you put Iris into a room similar to the one they had that device in...I think it would have been ok.

I'll give a version of Barry one prop. He did actually figure out how to make himself immune to that cannon. That was actually a clever move. I thought he might have just been getting stupidly cocky, but no he legitimately knew it wouldn't work. Which makes sense. You spend that much time trapped because of a weapon like that....obviously you'd figure a counter measure.

About Killer Frost....well that was just stupid. They had her! She was literally in the Lab and they let her walk off. And yet now they want to go pick that fight? Leave her be.

In terms of Barry avoiding being there...yeah that was an option. But I can buy it not working too. They've already gone with the BS that if you do time travel numerous times it gets less effective. It's plausible that Savitar would still kill Iris whether or not Barry was there. After all simply seeing her get stabbed might not be as important a trigger as Barry knowing she's dead. That might be too minor a change to really influence Savitar's existence. I know what he said, but it's not like he knows for sure what would or wouldn't make a difference. He at least appeared confident that Barry killing himself wasn't a guarantee win. If it was a bluff it is still one that Barry could believe in and thus he couldn't risk not trying to save Iris.
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Old 2017-05-18, 12:11   Link #674
Kanon
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Originally Posted by germanturkey View Post
well, no. HR shouldn't have told barry anyways, because everything barry knows, evil barry knows. it shouldn't have slipped out in the first place.
They thought they had everything they needed to beat Savitar and that they had basically won, it makes sense he would naturally answer Barry's question in the heat of the moment. And if he hadn't answered, who knows what Savitar would have done? He could have tortured them until they gave him the answer.

Some people think the Iris killed at the end was HR disguised as her using his holographic thingie. At first I thought it was impossible, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. With the help of Cisco's portals, they could have switched places when Savitar kept her prisoner while waiting for the right time. It's pretty far-fetched, but this is The Flash we're talking about.

Barry gave them time to come up with a strategy he wouldn't know about, and what happened? He just pulls out the speed bazooka and fires away while everybody else watches. That can't have been the plan, since that plan relied on Barry.
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Old 2017-05-18, 17:17   Link #675
GDB
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Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero View Post
Barry goes into the speedforce (you know, the place Savitar is scared of) and stays in there for some time, the time limit passes and the future changes affecting Savitar or he could just change places with Jay until (once again) Savitar is affected by the change.
Realistically, Savitar shouldn't even exist now that Barry knows who he is and how he was "born". So "plotforce" says that the rules no longer apply to him that strictly.
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Old 2017-05-19, 13:25   Link #676
quigonkenny
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Realistically, Savitar shouldn't even exist now that Barry knows who he is and how he was "born". So "plotforce" says that the rules no longer apply to him that strictly.
You assume Savitar didn't know who he would become when he was still Barry.
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Old 2017-05-19, 17:18   Link #677
GDB
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You assume Savitar didn't know who he would become when he was still Barry.
Future Barry literally said he still didn't know who Savitar was.
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Old 2017-05-20, 03:06   Link #678
quigonkenny
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Future Barry literally said he still didn't know who Savitar was.
Just as you would expect Savitar to say...fufufu...
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Old 2017-05-20, 09:20   Link #679
GDB
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Future Barry doesn't become Savitar, though. His Time Remnant does, and does so due to being ostracized by the team after beating Savitar. Savitar has already been beaten by this point, and the team gets back together. If it got back together with the Time Remnant, that alone would stop Savitar from being born, proving that it's normal Barry.
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Old 2017-05-23, 20:00   Link #680
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Wow, they actually made Flashpoint mean something. Props, because it was seeming very shoehorned for the rest of the season.
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