2018-09-29, 10:14 | Link #901 | |
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2018-09-29, 10:29 | Link #902 |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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^ You do know that the "innocent"-part when we talk about "innocent people" were used very loosely and generally, right? Technically speaking, nobody in the world is innocent. Nobody. But there are those who are oppressed and forced to live with what they have. Yet here you are, keep on clinging on the strict definition of "innocent" and you look down on oppressed people because they don't put up a fight against the powerful iron-fist government that ruled them and can make them and their loved ones "disappear" anytime and anywhere. You look down on them to the point where you think people like them deserve the fate of whatever Nazarick has done to the civilians in the story. Again, sometimes, I really don't get such edgy POV. Though I doubt you dare to talk openly about such twisted POV to the masses or at least with your general average coworkers who aren't anime-fans.
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2018-09-29, 10:45 | Link #903 | |
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2018-09-29, 11:06 | Link #904 | |||
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Location: Ireland
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2018-09-29, 11:24 | Link #905 | |
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We know that their reign have less of the usual problems. The Sorcerer Kingdom will most certainly have much less problems with spying, corruption and succession fights (Ainz cannot die from old age) though and Enri along with Carne Village can serve as a role model for co-existence of different races. Nazarick is also vastly superior in terms of technology and can use golems and undead for much of the manual labor, not having to exhaust the farmers with overwork, so they have their advantages. The only, but also quite strong, demerit, is the maliciousness of the likes of Albedo and Demi-Urge, but based on a spin-off, they are at least willing to leave people who are loyal to Ainz in peace, so in terms of morality they might end up being on a similar level as the current Empire at least, which is way above average in the New World.
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2018-09-29, 11:36 | Link #906 | |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
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Also, it's not about who the peasants can blame. It's about a powerful fully-capable organization (like Nazarick) intentionally screwing the lives of decent helpless little people instead of letting them live their simple lives when Nazarick can easily purge the members of the government only and give the lowly harmless people a chance to live without fear. You know, like what Ainz did to Carne village (but without the guards)? Was that so hard?
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2018-09-29, 11:45 | Link #907 | |
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Ainz isn't Karl Marx who tries to "save the proletariat", you know.
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2018-09-29, 11:47 | Link #908 | |||
Winter is coming
Join Date: Aug 2008
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It's no coincidence that disgusting monsters like the cockroach guy have only a brief appearance while attractive characters like the maids have so much screen time. Also, I really wonder whether people still go "sasuga Ainz-sama" if he is not a cool looking skeleton, but instead a zombie so gross that can make you puke.
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2018-09-29, 12:17 | Link #909 | |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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You don't have to be Karl Marx to have compassion.
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2018-09-29, 12:38 | Link #910 |
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Join Date: Oct 2015
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This is my rough summary of how I see the morality in Overlord:
There's no perfect way to measure morality and so on though one of the more known and well referenced ones is the D&D method. By that measure most of the NPCs in Nazarick would fit into the "Lawful Evil" category, specifically the type that prioritises following orders over just about everything - they'd all kill innocent and good people if ordered to and most wouldn't hesitate at all. The vast majority don't give a damn about outsiders though some of them are pro-actively evil on top of that (eg Demiurge) and some are pro-actively kind on top of that (eg Sebas). As for Ainz himself, I'd say he falls into the Lawful Evil category overall as well, though with a difference nuance to the NPCs since he's setting policy rather than following orders. Generally it could be said that what Ainz most cares about are his guild-mates and following from that the NPCs his guild-mates created and Nazarick. He cares about his general reputation to the extent that he doesn't want his guild-mates to hate him for what he's doing if he ever meets them. People in general have no value to him and he doesn't care about what race people are. People who are under his domain and in particular people who like/respect him and the guild have some value to him but in general he rarely sees people as more than tools and doesn't care about their viewpoit. Back at the start of S1, he was originally going to ignore what was going on in Carne village but he felt slightly indebted to Touch Me (having been saved by Touch Me in the past) and also wanted to use the occasion to conduct some experiments and learn some things. Overall, he's just about as capable of doing "good" as doing "evil" and what route he picks depends on which option (if any) will benefit him and his goals the most. As he says, he's very selfish. As others have pointed out, the other nations could hardly be classified as "good" and the world is not a nice place. The people of Carne village feel loyal to Ainz because he saved them and asked for so little in return - something that would normally be extremely rare. They're somewhat willing to accept goblins and orcs if it helps increase their chances of survival as they know they have a precarious existence. |
2018-09-29, 13:04 | Link #911 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2018-09-29, 13:26 | Link #912 |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
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Less deaths on the battle field, yes. But more deaths in a long period of famine and starvation until the Kindom finally collapses, if things go according to the Empire's plan. And not just that. The lack of food and power struggle between the crown and nobles would lead to many other social problems and tragedies, robbery, banditry would roam the Kingdom, starving people would likely to resort to cannibalism, deadly diseases would spread from the corpses of starved people. In short, prolonging this war would just lead to more deaths and chaos. It may not be his intention, but Ainz ending this war is actually an arc of mercy to the Kingdom's people.
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2018-09-29, 16:12 | Link #913 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2018-09-29, 17:00 | Link #914 |
18782+18782=37564
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: InterWebs
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Honestly I just think he's still a kid going through the edgy phase, or at best deliberately playing devil's advocate and seeing how far he can get with it. If not, then I genuinely fear him because he is displaying ISIS-level extremist views.
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2018-09-29, 19:18 | Link #916 | ||
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The guild collective essentially amounts to Friends, Family and their Children (creations). In the 'real-world' this would fairly loosely reflect clans/tribes. Even in the 'real world' (or at least real-world as gaming communities/groups go), would you not act for the benefits of your members? Would you even care about the individual traits of your members (assuming that membership itself always signifies that you 'pass/are satisfactory' means you're accepted and welcome). Even if Nazarick was filled with nothing but "weird rapist-like-tentacle-monsters", as long as the members were acting for the good of Nazarick (and it fundamentally is Nazarick vs alien-world-they-have-not-yet-explored-or-fully-understand) I cannot fault them.
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2018-09-29, 21:26 | Link #917 | |
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My first thought was "a goddamn lot". Since my mother wouldn't kill anyone (except by accident and in defense) for my sake, she wouldn't steal, she wouldn't commit crimes in general. If she did any of those things I wouldn't consider it to be admirable. Cersei Lannister is what tribalism gets you. You are free to believe whatever you want but most countries, even just large societies, have moved beyond tribalism into things like democracy or nationalism. |
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2018-09-29, 22:36 | Link #918 | |
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Debating philosophical constructs (especially if it is trying to apply real-world examples with fictional worlds) isn't really going to be all that productive, but the argument that 'Trump' (and what he is doing for America) is not effectively tribalism? + America is (more or less) a democratic society + Trump has more or less instituted an 'us vs them' mentality in many of America's global engagements. How is Trump any different to Ainz (as far as the anime has shown us)? + Both are leaders of their respective groups + Both take actions that (apparently) outsiders will question, but inherently those actions are taken (at least with the mindset) of being for the good of their group. + Both take actions that (fundamentally) screw over hundreds of thousands (if not more) without any regard for the other involved parties. Obviously Trump hasn't gone and massacred a few hundred thousand people at this point in time, but I could imagine him doing so if it was for the 'good' of America and he wouldn't suffer any meaningful repercussions for it. For 'common sense' purposes this should be an unfounded fear (obviously), but all actions to date and expressed intentions by Trump have been 'for the good of America', no matter how much of the rest of the world doesn't agree with him.
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2018-09-29, 22:50 | Link #919 | |
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And do you know when it is ripe for the Empire to invade? They want an invasion with as less casualties on their side as possible, thus they should only invade when the Kingdom falls into total chaos. Any time sooner just doesn't make sense, since as long as the chain of command remain intact, the king and nobles will just conscript all peasants to fight back, resulting in massive casualties for the Empire's soldiers.
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2018-09-30, 02:19 | Link #920 | |
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...I'm not going to say anything more because it would be off topic. |
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