Your views on the current animation giants!!!!

[ang89]

Yo ppl, juz wan to know on your opinion on the current animation companies like Sunrise, J.C Staff, Kyoto Animation, Bones and others. These are some of the conclusions that I have made on some of them.

Sunrise- has a niche in the genre of Mecha. Rely heavily on action to grab the ppl's attention. Although, the story telling/plot can be suspect, ( maybe becos most of its anime comes out before the manga. I may be wrong in this) Just think of Gundam seed series and Code Geass.

Kyoto Animation- some call it the best animation company. I agree to this to a small extent, yes it has good animation and is SUPER faithful to the manga which they take from. However, 1 complain I have is that is it just me or is the company producing shows that have more MOEs???????

Bones- My favourite studio. Because I think it has good character development and the plot is superb IMO. Furthermore, the animation is pretty decent. Just think of FMA and scrapped princess.

P.S. if this thread is already created b4hand, I apologise as I am too lazy to dig through the entire forum.


Hmmm, not sure abt the othes though, so really hope you guys can enlighten me on this. Many thanks.

[Furuno]

Here's my opinion on several animation studios :

Kyoto Animation : Probably has the best animation quality for me as far as i've seen.

J.C. Staff : Quite good. Especially in character design.

Sunrise : Very high mechanical design quality. But character design are so-so.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Bones: Very intricate stories and excellent use of music are the norm for this company. They also make excellent use of character relationships in telling a great story. I wasn't surprised to learn recently that Bones is actually made up of old Sunrise employee's who moved on to form their own studio. They seem to have a common trend though of a slight, but noticable drop in animation quality midway through their series.

J.C Staff: Um lolis?

Kyoto Animation: Usually top quality animation, but there are also some clear flubs I've noticed quite often where they can't seem to decide on the height of a character or their hair length. They also seem to be caught up on adaptations and the Moe Aesthetic and I'd be lying if I said they couldn't use a bit more of an injection of plot in their series.

Sunrise: Easily my favourite company. They've pretty much done everything and even though their strong point is mecha series, they've also done other shows I've enjoyed like Keroro Gunsou, Gintama and Inuyasha. They've been given a bit of an unfair reputation of a company that "ALWAYS" trainwrecks their series, but really they've only had one clear outright failure in over 30 years in Gundam Seed Destiny.

[Vexx]

As far as I'm concerned, past performance by an *animation company* is no real predictor of future performance. It depends on the individuals that make up the project team. Almost every company has had successes and failures.

I will say KyoAni has some of the consistently higher production values around and they choose their projects carefully (rarely or never running multiple projects at once).

J C Staff & Shaft --- good workhorse farms, not able to consistently predict a win based on the name though.

Bones chooses some good material to work with (Scrapped Princess, etc)

Who is it that did H&C? Aniplex? Not sure enough to name others...

Really it depends on what source material these companies choose. Buy into a manga too early and often the fans are unhappy with the result. Buy into an ero-game and don't *really* hire good writers to map the storyline chart out? More pain.

[rooboy]

I actually think Production I.G. is probably the best animation studio out there. I'm surprised they weren't mentioned in the first place.

Some other studios that I'm surprised weren't mentioned are Gonzo, Gainax, Studio Deen, and Madhouse.

Originally Posted by Vexx

Who is it that did H&C? Aniplex? Not sure enough to name others...

Actually JC Staff did H&C. They also did Azumanga Daioh, Karin, Mahoraba, Nodame Cantabille, R.O.D. the TV, and Spiral. I'm assuming Kaoishin always calls them the loli company because of Shakugan no Shana and Zero no Tsukaima, but I find that to be as inaccurate as calling Sunrise a mecha company, considering Sunrise also has Keroro Gunso, Yakitate Japan, Kekkaishi, My Hime/Otome, Cowboy Bebop, Witch Hunter Robin, and a ton of other extraordinarily popular non-mecha series.

Originally Posted by Vexx

Bones chooses some good material to work with (Scrapped Princess, etc)

That's kind of funny. I always got the impression that Bones was generally more well-regarded for their original series (particularly Eureka 7 and Wolf's Rain), with the exception of Fullmetal Alchemist. Since they changed almost all of Fullmetal after the first half, that one is almost an original series as well. Of course, my two favorite Bones series are Fullmetal and Ouran High Host Club, but in both cases I actually think they improved upon the original.

I think past performance of an animation team is indicative of future success. The trick is distinguishing the teams in the bigger houses like Sunrise, JC Staff, and Gonzo.

EDIT: Another popular studio would be SHAFT.

[Nightengale]

Studio Ghibli : A good, solid and well-renowned studio that has produced a lot of great animated movies. My only fear is the future of the company once Old Man Miyazaki officially leaves the industry. There are upcoming talents, and Ghibli won't die with the future retirement of Hayao, but his eventual retirement would leave a huge gap to fill for Ghibli.

Bee Train : Kōichi Mashimo bores me. Seriously, must he be involved in like...every Bee Train anime? Murder Princess didn't have his involvement, and it's already looking more promising in a way. It's not a bad studio. They have a strong appliance of atmosphere and background colours and their animation is decent. All they need is Mashimo's retirement and just maybe they'll get better.

BONES : The more original son of Sunrise. A strong, solid studio that has a strong mix of strong elements in the art of animation, from solid consistent animation even if the quality isn't as mesmerizing as it was clearly apparent in the past, now that they're getting busier with more animes to work on, a rich use of colour palletes that has the sharp feel just like Sunrise, overall capable staff of animators and other staff that has shown their capable feat in animation direction and visual direction in a consistently good basis. Overall, they're good in every aspect, even if not the best in any imo. They're more original in the sense that they don't do too many adaptions and such and are more geared towards original animations and rely on that strong potrayal in a good way. As for their adaptions, like Sunrise too, they often add little things to improve the experience, though Fullmetal was a total jumpshark as far as adaptions go, both good and bad.

Gainax : Ur...Frankly, I'm not so sure what to give on the Gainax front. They've done some amazing work...EVA, Nadia, FLCL, Aim to the Top!...but aside from the animation forefront which imo has some of the strongest animation direction dynamics second probably only to Studio 4C, I don't really get their presence in their presentation, EVA aside. They're good, just that...I dunno. I always look forward to their works, but...

Madhouse : Argubly the best studio for manga adaptions...and also argubly the busiest studio that does 406573 animation works a year. They are also probably one of the most versatile studios in terms of animation flexibility, in which has a strong degree of variation depending on the directors and staff, but their colour tones seem appliable on most similar parts. Ironically, the best work from them in recent years imo, Saiunkoku Monogatari suffered where all their manga adaptions flourished...visual and artistic direction.

Production I.G : Their prowess with animation asthetics and visual colours in a 3-dimensional sense that captures the feel of the image is very sexy and appealing to the eyes in a consistent rate... though the quality of their works really depend on who's in charge of what. They are capable of superb eyecandy though, no doubt.

GONZO : 50-50 studio. I hate their CGs though. I can't help but be dampened everytime they do adaptions, but they strangely often step up to their game and animation in originals. Hardly a bad studio, but it's understandable how some of their works had left bad taste in people's mouth, despite a similar amount of resounding success.

J.C Staff : A strong sense of paced direction, alongside strong use of fluid toned colours with appealing background images. Very versatile in key animations for characters as well, though sometimes, series that don't need the more light-hearted side of J.C Staff's prowess like Ghost Hunt could really do without their light-hearted animation quirks. Same goes to some of their older series.

Satelight : A strong, animation studio with solid use of CGs mixed alongside a strongly sharp appliance of animation colours and styles. They've done a number of solid works like Noein, Aquarion, Hellsing and Macross Zero in their short years of animation works too. I'm afraid that Kissdum may leave a bad scar ala Sunrise/GSD to it though...

Kyoto Animation : The next big thing? Maybe. A strong, rising studio that has shown multiple degrees of success in terms of solid novel and visual novel adaption alongside sharp, witty storyboarding, visually pleasing animation that's consistent, nice background images with good colours. Of course, the quality of animation may be attributed to them haven't madhousing their projects, but so far...as far as a studio that handles adaptions of visual novels and novels, they haven't dissapointed. I'm looking forward to their future exploitations, considering the amount of original pet-projects they're interested in undertaking.

Sunrise : Jack of All Trades. They're respectively good in every degree, having strong degrees of success in original animations, manga adaptions, novel adaptions...game spin-offs, what not. Though their main niche seems to be mecha-centric original animation, lite-shonen manga adaptions, alongside occasional more serious projects, that often utilize colour palletes of lower-tones compared to their favoured rich bright colours of Gundam/Keroro etc. Though they were better back when the Bones staff were still a part of Sunrise, they're a strong studio that's in-between Madhousing and Boning, that allows them to retain good animation for most parts, and still do a healthy amount of projects. It's strange that Kekkaishi seems to be visually stronger than some of the other Sunrise works that should've gotten more money into it...

[Vexx]

If the teams stay together, then absolutely.
The odd gaps you're seeing in my posts is the result of my "relatively recent" re-entry into the hobby of anime and manga (around 2005) after not really watching anything since the 60s and then minor bits of Pokemon in the 90s. In 2005, someone poked me into watching Love Hina and Kanon and I discovered that anime was about a bit more than just annoying men shouting and explosions and stuff

[andromeda0201]

Bones - my favourite since I liked most of the projects they have done, FMA, Kurau Phantom Memory, Scrapped Princess, Ouran High School are all in my top favourites. I love their consistant and detailed animation, especially when animating character expressions and movements, it tells you how much effort and value they put into their productions. Also, they have always produced very interesting original concepts. Bones = quality.... to me

Gonzo - I have always enjoyed their series...sure some had sloppy endings or as many claimed...distorted the manga? But since I watch anime more than reading manga, there was nothing for me to compare. What I like is that they are clever at picking mangas or stories with interesting concepts, therefore always standing out as having very unique animes for a particular season. So no matter how many people complain about them, they will surely watch the first episode out of curiosity. I enjoyed some of their productions like Gankutsuou, Last Exile, Chrno Crusade, Basilisk, Gantz and Vandread. Oh, and they brought me into anime with Full Metal Panic ...so really, I have nothing bad to say about this studio.

J.C. Staff - not outstanding, but not bad either, they are the most consistant ones in the animation companies. What I know is, no one ever complains about their work since ...really, theres nothing to complain about, they keep faithful to the manga/novel, they have good voice actors and music, they have nice even if not breathtaking and adventurous animation....what more would you want?

Madhouse - another pretty good studio, theres definitely assurance that they will not 'destroy' any adaptation, but the drops in animation quality are always rather significant especially somewhere in the middle of the series, its easy to see which episodes or even series they spend more time on compared to others. Beck, Black Lagoon, Gungrave, Nana...were some of their high quality ones, where some like Saiunkoku Monogatari, Gokusen were definitely not up to the standard you'd expect from them

Beetrain - **groan**...first reaction when I heard they were going to do Tsubasa Chronicles, no really, i dislike their slow pacing and lack of humanity in every single character, worse thing is the lovely music always blasting in the background whereas all the characters do is stare blankly at each other for ~5 min, any project they are involved in is a snore fest for me

Sunrise - responsible for all the action-packed, hot-blooded, shonen oriented animes, especially mechas. Most of their productions are very hyped and famous anyway, they are very consistant in whatever they do and always provide sufficient entertainment for all ages...not to mention, always being able to produce a highly popular anime in a certain season...e.g. code geass, GS, Mai Hime

Production I.G. - whilst KyoAni is the 'flashy' type of awesome, theirs is the more 'solid' awesome..that is, if they want to be. GITS, Seirei and Chevalier are probably enough to get the best animation, however others like xxxHolic, Love Hina, POT were definitely much lower key and budget. My only opinion is that they like to go into detail and produce rather complex plots which may, or may not live up to the usually awesome beginnings. Most of their work may not appeal to the average anime fan too

Studio DEEN - I put them in the same level as JC Staff, not jawdropping awesome but not totally horrible either. Having said that, the greatest OVA till now, the Kenshin Reminiscence OVA is done by them, their other projects, Fruits Basket, Fate stay night and Higurashi are equally memorable

Studio Pierrot - surprised they weren't mentioned, many significant works up to date with of course Naruto leading the crowd, and Juuni Kokki which made me notice them...as well as Hikaru no Go, Emma and Midori no Hibi sealing it. Very faithful in their adaptations but not many projects out in a year

Gainax - don't know their stuff much, except Kare kano which seriously left a bad taste because of the crappiest ending up to date, Kono Mimi Kuku, Mahoromatic and FLCL which I didn't like, and Evangelion which I had no interest. I know they like including lots of fanservice (probably more than Gonzo), and since those don't appeal to me....its a hit or miss of their work

Makoto Shinkai - isnt a studio but I thought he should be mentioned anyway since Hoshi no Koe, Beyond the Clouds and Byosoku 5cm were really great, especially since he did most of the work. With more budget and a bigger production team, this man could produce lots of masterpieces

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

Kyoto Animation : The next big thing? Maybe. A strong, rising studio that has shown multiple degrees of success in terms of solid novel and visual novel adaption alongside sharp, witty storyboarding, visually pleasing animation that's consistent, nice background images with good colours. Of course, the quality of animation may be attributed to them haven't madhousing their projects, but so far...as far as a studio that handles adaptions of visual novels and novels, they haven't dissapointed. I'm looking forward to their future exploitations, considering the amount of original pet-projects they're interested in undertaking.

.............Pf.....PFFT AHAHAHAHAHA. Oh man. Are they exploiting the loli characters or the fanbase or what. I don't know why, but this almost strikes me as true in a sense. Future exploitations, grabbing the market by the balls and asking for money in return for what you want. So Kyoto Animation is the Mafia of the anime industry eh. . I'm usually the one saying something unintentionally hilarious. Here we'll switch places, I am now Nightengale.

I'm looking forward to seeing their future exploits considering the amount of original pet-projects they're interested in undertaking.

Now I am me again. That was a Daily Show reference by the way to the episode with Jerry Seinfeld in 2006 in case anybody wanted to know.

[DanielSong39]

From reading this board, all I'm hearing is "GONZO sux" or "GONZO can't compare to BONES/J.C. Staff/Kyoto Animation."

So I decided to pull out an old GONZO work, Last Exile - and I thought it was absolutely terrific! Great characters, animation, plot, etc... surely, one of the best shows of 2003, and one that can be compared favorably to the best efforts of any of the aforementioned studios. I also watched Full Metal Panic! and found it to be a thoroughly enjoyable series.

So, is GONZO a terrible studio that got lucky a couple of times? Or are they a good studio that tends to be hit-and-miss, with the occasional gem?

[Aoie_Emesai]

They have their good days and from my stand point of views, they are pretty much all equal to me. Every so often, you get terrible directing, quality, dubbing, etc.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by DanielSong39

From reading this board, all I'm hearing is "GONZO sux" or "GONZO can't compare to BONES/J.C. Staff/Kyoto Animation."

So I decided to pull out an old GONZO work, Last Exile - and I thought it was absolutely terrific! Great characters, animation, plot, etc... surely, one of the best shows of 2003, and one that can be compared favorably to the best efforts of any of the aforementioned studios. I also watched Full Metal Panic! and found it to be a thoroughly enjoyable series.

So, is GONZO a terrible studio that got lucky a couple of times? Or are they a good studio that tends to be hit-and-miss, with the occasional gem?

2003 is to old for most people to even consider when making their judgements on companies. Just look at how people judged Sunrise up until Code Geass (they just ignored all the great series pre Gundam Seed basically). Most fans seem to be only concerned with what is happening right this second when talking about anime. Either that or they have really poor long term memory.

GONZO has done a lot of good work including Welcome To NHK! Last Exile, Kaze No Stigma, Kaleido Star, Seto No Hanoyome, Hellsing and Full Metal Panic, but the problem people seem to have with them is that they often rework the manga material they've done. Since this is the opposite of what the greatest and most correct studio of all time, Kyoto Animation (God) does, and GONZO is known for it, GONZO is essentially the devil to people.

Also with Full Metal Panic! the sequels were worked on by Kyoto Animation (mostly) and since they are the greatest animation company in history with absolutely no peers, that obviously means the first Full Metal Panic was abysmal since there is no such thing as good and better, only best and worst. Frankly, I prefer the GONZO character designs and animation for Full Metal Panic! over the ones from Second Raid.

Anyway thats about the only way I can try to rationlize the sport of GONZO bashing as they are a very good company in my opinion. If you want to see another sport other than GONZO bashing there is betting on how Sunrise will Trainwreck a series, which doesn't even make sense since they've trainwrecked what like two shows in the past. I don't know the basic tone is that anything GONZO and Sunrise does will end in disaster and that anything Kyoto Animation does will turn to heavenly light of unimaginable radiance (another good sport is spot the praise for something KyoAni did in a series that has been done in like 50 other series to date, yet its being treated as original writing). At least people leave BONES the hell alone though and give them their due, I don't really know much about people praising Loli Staff though, maybe Shakugan no Shana.

[Sheba]

From reading this board, all I'm hearing is "GONZO sux" or "GONZO can't compare to BONES/J.C. Staff/Kyoto Animation."

Hellsing and Pumpkin Scissors (to name a few) left a very bitter taste in my mouth. Full Metal Panic was okay.
But because of things like Hellsing or Pumpkin Scissors, yes I am very cautious when Gonzo is involved in a project.
I will care about Sunrise again when they'll leave HiMe and Gundam franchises a rest and make things that are as awesome as Cowboy Bebop or Planetes (I dont give a damn about Idolmaster, mecha being a genre I usually avoid).
As for KyoAni, I enjoy them as much as I enjoy watching a kitten growing up: they are promising.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Hellsing and Pumpkin Scissors (to name a few) left a very bitter taste in my mouth. Full Metal Panic was okay.
But because of things like Hellsing or Pumpkin Scissors, yes I am very cautious when Gonzo is involved in a project.
I will care about Sunrise again when they'll leave HiMe and Gundam franchises a rest and make things that are as awesome as Cowboy Bebop or Planetes (I dont give a damn about Idolmaster, mecha being a genre I usually avoid).
As for KyoAni, I enjoy them as much as I enjoy watching a kitten growing up: they are promising.

Sunrise probably could stand to give the mecha a rest in the same way Kyoto Animation should probably give the moe a rest after a few more series (not yet though as I'm not minding it in Lucky Star). As far I'm concerned Sunrise could easily dump Mai Hime as I think it is a stigma and their weakest franchise ever. Gundam however can't be allowed to die as for one thing it is my favourite franchise (Excluding Seed) and for another its too important to Japanese culture in the same way Doraemon and Tezuka stories are.

[retardation]

bones - bones has gotta be my fav studio right now. even though it seems like most of their work is directed towards adolescents, i don't really find the things that they do to be dumbed down in terms of content or additions to please the whole perv/slapstick crowd. they also always seem to have original character designs and a nice watery color palette in their series.

sunrise - they put out a large quantity of work but i've noticed pretty good animation quality in all the sunrise shows i've seen. generally the shows i've seen from sunrise have been at least above average as well in terms of plot. look, for planetes and cowboy bebop alone, you have to say sunrise is one of the better studios in the modern era.

madhouse - the thing i like about madhouse is that i can almost always count on them to make a series that's at least above average. ichigo 100% is probably the exception to that. they'll also almost always drop a really superior series at some level of consistency. the thing is that it's hard to say something about a studio so big and diverse. i will say that aside from their satoshi kon releases, i don't think their art is very innovative. to me, it mostly just looks good enough or it's good based on past conventions.

gonzo - to me gonzo has the best looking product aside from their cgi. even their cgi though... it's better than other companies. i don't think their batting average is that great as far as making actual shows. they have a handful of great series but generally you expect their product to be somewhere in the ok-but-not-great range. unlike other series that are only ok, i tend to find myself watching more gonzo series because of the cool graphics.

kyoto animation - i'm not a big fan of the whole moe series thing but i've pretty much liked everything i've seen from this studio. i did think they all looked great. aside from haruhi, i didn't think the series were necessarily special though.

jc staff - do they use a different team for each project? i hardly see any running themes through their work. that's not necessarily a good or bad thing but it's hard to rate them as a studio overall. seems like they have a couple greats a lot of decent series, a few clunkers. in general i don't see them standing out much for anything other than their size though.

[4Tran]

In terms of animation and art quality, the best non-Ghibli studio is Production I.G.; and they've been the best for quite a while now. Just one look at the current Seirei no Moribito will show good their choreography and visual imagination are. They do an excellent job of showing how digital image processing is capable of more than old cel animation. While I'm a bit less impressed with their shows, there's no complaints about their artistry.
Recent standouts: Seirei no Moribito, Ghost in the Shell (all works), Blood+.
On my top 10 list: none.

In terms of actually making good shows, in my view, the studios that have been the most successful in the last little while are J.C. Staff, Studio Pierott, and Studio Deen. They, or some of their production teams are responsible for a good number of the best shows in the last few years.

J.C. Staff
Recent standouts: Nodame Cantabile, Ghost Hunt, Honey and Clover, Starship Operators.
On my top 10 list: Azumanga Daioh & Revolutionary Girl Utena.

Studio Deen
Recent standouts: Simoun, Maria-sama ga Miteru, Higurashi Naku Koro Ni, Zipang.
On my top 10 list: Full Moon wo Sagashite & Maria-sama ga Miteru.

Studio Pierrot - This is a special case since most of their best works are older. However, anything that Kobayashi Tsuneo's production team works on is just excellent.
Standouts: Twelve Kingdoms, Emma, Fancy Lala, GTO, Hikaru no Go.
On my top 10 list: Twelve Kingdoms.

[Demongod86]

Sunrise: CAN WE PLEASE GET MORE MAIN CHARACTERS THAT CAN LEGALLY CONSUME ALCOHOL?! Not that I want them to, but I want them to be of that age that they CAN, aka NOT TEENAGERS.

And GSD was no failure. To me it was a success just to see uber Kira/goddess Lacus

[Sorrow-K]

The problem with Gonzo as I see it is that, when they're good, they're brilliant (Gankutsuou, Red Garden, Speed Grapher, Last Exile) but when they're bad, they're atrocious (Pumpkin Scissors, Trinity Blood, Real Bout High School, Zaion, the list goes on). Sure, they have a lot of middle-of-the-rung titles like FMP, Chrono Crusade and Hellsing, but given their ability when they are actually good and the plethora of below-mediocre titles they made pre-2005 that established their reputation, a lot of people think that there batting average should be a lot higher than what it actually is, and they're looked down for it. My opinion is that they have been managing to pull off a great title every now and then, particularly since Gankutsuou, and that's better than nothing (and certainly better than Gainax).

Gainax. Lost relic of time gone past. I can't say I've seen a great deal of Gainax post-FLCL, but what I have seen has continually disappointed me. What hasn't been mediocre (Abenobashi, Mahoromatic) has been regrettably terrible (He Is My Master, This Ugly and Beautiful World). It's sad, because this is the same studio that produced gems like Kare Kano and Wings of Honneamise, and critically acclaimed pieces like Nadia (which I haven't seen in all honesty). I've pretty much chosen not to waste anymore of my time with Gainax productions, since they're seemingly happy to appeal to the LCD with pointlessly off-the-wall insanity combined with mediocre story-telling and unsympathetic characters.

Madhouse. Deserve credit for gems like Monster, Akagi, BECK, Gunslinger Girl, Gungrave and Kon Satoshi's works. Deserve to be derided for mediocrity like Oku-sama wa Joshikosei and (to a lesser extent since I didn't mind it, but would hardly tout it as brilliant) Strawberry Panic. What Madhouse do well is that they pick the right director and almost always manage to create works with an engrossing atmosphere. The animation in their work tends to be gritty, which it seems the masses don't generally appreciate, but it's effective for the type of titles they do. They have one of the better batting averages in the game, IMO, and are a tad underappreciated given some of the titles they've put together in their time.

Kyoto Animation. There's a lot of similarities between Kyoto Animation in this decade and Gainax in the 90s, from the controversy surrounding the way they split the anime community, to their extremely vocal and loyal fanbase (who arguably can't see anime objectively... but let's face it, "fanboyism" and objectivity are mutually exclusive). A certain critic whom I respect is of the opinion that Anno Hideaki was the heart and soul of Gainax, and that when he isn't somehow involved in a Gainax piece, it's generally below their average, and I'd say the exact same thing of Kyoto Animation and Ishihara Tatsuya. When Ishihara is involved, KyoAni have made titles that are, IMO, outstanding, such as Air, Kanon and Suzumiya Haruhi, all of which have excellent animation, electric cinematography and well-told stories (with the exception of Air, which really would have benefited from more episodes... even a fanboy like me can admit that). When Ishihara isn't involved, KyoAni have made FMP:F?, FMP:TSR, the two Munto OVAs and Lucky Star, and with the exception of FMP:TSR, which was one of the best anime of '05, I wouldn't rate any of these titles very highly. None of them are bad, per se, but none of them are brilliant, either. The point is, I'm starting to think it's not so much Kyoto Animation that's deserving of all the praise they get, but rather Ishihara.

J.C.Staff. Solid workhorse studio. They make a crapload of titles, but some of them, such as Honey & Clover, Nodame Cantabile and Hataraki Man (I haven't seen it myself, in all honesty, but one of our reviewers has just written a very glowing review of it that will be published soon) are really outstanding. What serves them well is that, while they don't produce a lot of out-and-out masterpieces, they don't make a great deal of crap either.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

2003 is to old for most people to even consider when making their judgements on companies. Just look at how people judged Sunrise up until Code Geass (they just ignored all the great series pre Gundam Seed basically). Most fans seem to be only concerned with what is happening right this second when talking about anime. Either that or they have really poor long term memory.

Is this really a bad thing, though? I mean, when you're watching as much anime as someone like Vexx or Skane, or Skyfall or Pellissier or Monir or myself (among others), you're not going to remember all the details of the mediocre titles you watched over two or three years ago. Let's face it, anime is, for the most past, disposable entertainment. Sure, there are a couple of titles that will stay with you for years and years after you watch them. For me, that's titles like Azumanga Daioh, Koi Kaze, Gungrave, the first Rurouni Kenshin OVAs, Laputa: Castle in the Sky, among others. But, the mediocre titles, and even some of the good-but-not-brilliant ones... I'd be lucky if I still remembered the plot 18 months after I finished watching them. That shouldn't be held against the people who watch such titles... that's just the nature of the medium.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

GONZO has done a lot of good work including Welcome To NHK! Last Exile, Kaze No Stigma, Kaleido Star, Seto No Hanoyome, Hellsing and Full Metal Panic, but the problem people seem to have with them is that they often rework the manga material they've done. Since this is the opposite of what the greatest and most correct studio of all time, Kyoto Animation (God) does, and GONZO is known for it, GONZO is essentially the devil to people.

Also with Full Metal Panic! the sequels were worked on by Kyoto Animation (mostly) and since they are the greatest animation company in history with absolutely no peers, that obviously means the first Full Metal Panic was abysmal since there is no such thing as good and better, only best and worst. Frankly, I prefer the GONZO character designs and animation for Full Metal Panic! over the ones from Second Raid.

First, my opinion of the first Full Metal Panic series as an above average action title to watch to kill some time, but not anything brilliant or meaningful was formed before I even knew its sequels were made by Kyoto Animation. (Hell, at the time, the only other KyoAni title I'd seen was Air, so I didn't really have an opinion of them either way). So, that opinion was formed purely on what I saw on the screen, not on any pre-informed impression based on studios or the fanbase (you seem to be the master of that, so I'll leave that to you). But, as far as I'm concerned, TSR did all the things right that the first FMP did wrong: the characters were analysed to a deeper level, the drama was more gripping and profound and the atmosphere was more absorbing. My opinion of the difference between FMP and FMP:TSR still hasn't changed, even some nearly 18 months after I saw it: one was a fun but pointless action romp... the other was an incredibly absorbing military drama with well-analysed characters and outstanding dialogue. That opinion comes independently of who made what... but credit goes where credit is due, as far as I'm concerned.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

Anyway thats about the only way I can try to rationlize the sport of GONZO bashing as they are a very good company in my opinion. If you want to see another sport other than GONZO bashing there is betting on how Sunrise will Trainwreck a series, which doesn't even make sense since they've trainwrecked what like two shows in the past. I don't know the basic tone is that anything GONZO and Sunrise does will end in disaster and that anything Kyoto Animation does will turn to heavenly light of unimaginable radiance (another good sport is spot the praise for something KyoAni did in a series that has been done in like 50 other series to date, yet its being treated as original writing). At least people leave BONES the hell alone though and give them their due, I don't really know much about people praising Loli Staff though, maybe Shakugan no Shana.

Let's talk about Sunrise then. I'll admit I've never seen a Gundam, but how do you respond to the critical panning that, not just GSD, but also Gundam Seed, Gundam Wing, Endless Waltz, Double Zeta Gundam and others have gotten on across several internet reviewing sites? How about the claims that "Gundam could benefit from a good long break to let its concepts become fresh again" or "Outside of the original incarnation, the Gundam franchise isn’t known for its innovation" that various reviewers on my site alone have made? And I'm sure there are other critics on the internet that have a plethora of objective, well-founded criticisms of other Gundam titles... how do you respond to those?

That's a terrible comment on J.C. Staff by the way. Sure, a couple of titles they make like Zero no Tsukaima and Shakugan no Shana focus on lolis or loli-like characters, but what about Nodame Cantabile, Asatte no Houkou, Honey & Clover, Ghost Hunt, Azumanga Daioh, Tsukihime and others. Sure, some of these titles have lolis, but it's rarely ever done to appeal to a fetish and more frequently done as something substantial to the story, such as using the character design to reflect the character's innocence. This is an unfair slam if you ask me, this is a studio that makes good titles and is worth of acclaim... even if they aren't among the best, they are generally very consistent.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Sorrow_K

The problem with Gonzo as I see it is that, when they're good, they're brilliant (Gankutsuou, Red Garden, Speed Grapher, Last Exile) but when they're bad, they're atrocious (Pumpkin Scissors, Trinity Blood, Real Bout High School, Zaion, the list goes on). Sure, they have a lot of middle-of-the-rung titles like FMP, Chrono Crusade and Hellsing, but given their ability when they are actually good and the plethora of below-mediocre titles they made pre-2005 that established their reputation, a lot of people think that there batting average should be a lot higher than what it actually is, and they're looked down for it. My opinion is that they have been managing to pull off a great title every now and then, particularly since Gankutsuou, and that's better than nothing (and certainly better than Gainax).

Gonzo has had its shares of good and bad shows, but for whatever reason, most of them rub me the wrong way. Of those shows that you listed as high quality, I couldn't stand Speed Grapher and both Red Garden and Last Exile felt emotionally hollow. I'd only rate Gankutsuou as a standout, but even it suffers quite a bit from the Gonzo treatment. I think that Gonzo is at their best when they try to make more solid shows - I think that Kaleido Star is the best show they made.

Originally Posted by Sorrow_K

Let's talk about Sunrise then. I'll admit I've never seen a Gundam, but how do you respond to the critical panning that, not just GSD, but also Gundam Seed, Gundam Wing, Endless Waltz, Double Zeta Gundam and others have gotten on across several internet reviewing sites? How about the claims that "Gundam could benefit from a good long break to let its concepts become fresh again" or "Outside of the original incarnation, the Gundam franchise isn’t known for its innovation" that various reviewers on my site alone have made? And I'm sure there are other critics on the internet that have a plethora of objective, well-founded criticisms of other Gundam titles... how do you respond to those?

To be honest, Gundam is not the best indicator of Sunrise's quality. I'd say that their best recent shows would be My-Hime, My-Otome, Planetes, and the Crest of the Stars series. Those shows suggest that Sunrise is most certainly capable of good quality works. Gundam, on the other hand, is designed to have mass market appeal; and as such it plays out largely according to the formula that the original Mobile Suit Gundam made successful. It's not the place to look for innovation any more than works like Naruto are.

[Joojoobees]

Excellent discussion, guys.

I always have a difficult time evaluating the work of animation studios because it is very unclear to me how much/which work was sub-contracted to a different studio.

I think Sorrow_K's point about the importance of the director is a really good one, and others have mentioned how several of these companies are quite large and the talent that works on one project is unrelated to the team that picks up another title.

The different studios generally seem to have the least difficulty coming up with interesting artwork. I am usually satisfied with the quality of artwork, and sometimes stunned, by how good it is. Even the art style of Beck, which Sorrow_K called 'gritty but effective' above, was occasionally quite impressive.

Where I see the studios falling down is in the tired rehash of concepts, weak characterization, and sad excuses for plots. I'll single out Bee Train here, who initially came to my attention with Dot-Hack: Sign. Interesting idea and great artwork, but the story suffered from episode after episode of characters literally sitting around, waiting for something to happen. Still I sought out other Bee Train projects to see if they ever would deliver on the promise I saw. Unfortunately, I've never been fully satisfied once.