Romance in Macross

[KiraYamatoFan]

Originally Posted by Cadorna

oh came on,the only time Ranka cried, was because alto was embracing sheryl. She only suffer from love a little, something normal. But sheryl has a terminal disease and alto broke her heart , that ' s fuc****g unfair

Again! It shows how one-sided the amount of character suffering between the two rivals was distributed by Kawamori and co.

I just hope Ranka will get a Minmay-type of punishment at the end because it's the best way to make up for all the trolling Kawamori did so far.

[Paul Hausser]

Dear, oh dear. I am sure you have never ever been affected by anything besides your own actions, and surely, actions of others have no effect upon your inconquerable persona. A true Henleyan character you are, Wesley.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Paul Hausser

Dear, oh dear. I am sure you have never ever been affected by anything besides your own actions, and surely, actions of others have no effect upon your inconquerable persona. A true Henleyan character you are.

Dealing with others in appropiate manner is all part of being a member of the human race. Sheryl seems to think she's special though, bequeaths special status on one lone individual that somehow met whatever insane requirements she had, and then she and her fans have the gual to claim she's had a bad lot in life?

[Deryns]

Originally Posted by Tak

I am not even so sure if Sheryl ever had a proper meal. She basically lacks table manners (maybe she was happy? I dunno), does not know how to use chopstick, and probably never consumed alcohol. Then I saw her in a flashback, and it felt quite painful.

Finally, in her short lifespan she had one day to enjoy a proper fucking meal, but her lights are going out as we speak. I found 23 to be particularly hard to watch, and then I thought of Ranka. Whether she loses the triangle or not is of secondary importance, the fact is, even if she end up not being with anyone, she at least has a load of people ready to pamper her to no apparent end. But Sheryl? What does she get? She basically got nothing left, not even her dignity. How fucked up is that?

I begin to wonder if Shouji Kawamori's real name is Shouji Kim.

- Tak

She was a famous idol so I'm pretty sure she has had decent meals before. The flashback, as has been previously stated by others, was most likely to illustrate what she came from as compared to where she is at now. As for having no dignity I think that is part of the problem with her playing house with Alto, she is trying to hold onto what she has left, hence the hiding the cut finger behind her back. She probably thinks he says out of pity, whether this is the case or not. I think her moment will come when she remembers what she was like at the beginning of the series, confident, poised, and composed.

As for Ranka having many people to support or take care of her I'm cool with this since that has been the major difference between the two from the start. Self-reliance versus dependence on others has been a major issue for Sheryl from the start. Any relationship is a partnership between two people so it is a lesson she could stand to learn. Sometimes learning is a painful process.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Deryns

She was a famous idol so I'm pretty sure she has had decent meals before. The flashback, as has been previously stated by others, was most likely to illustrate what she came from as compared to where she is at now.

I think you are completely missing the fact that she never had a proper meal in a family setting. Her flashback was not because she was comparing herself then and now. In that scene, after the flashback, she muttered to herself about never having dinner like this before. Proper meal or not, she probably attend to most of her meals alone. Judging by her behavior in front of Alto, I can see that she was overjoyed, and probably her first time eating with a special someone.

Originally Posted by Deryns

As for having no dignity I think that is part of the problem with her playing house with Alto, she is trying to hold onto what she has left, hence the hiding the cut finger behind her back.

Wrong, she did not want Alto to touch it because it was infectious. The Virus is transmitted by bodily fluids.

Originally Posted by Deryns

She probably thinks he says out of pity, whether this is the case or not. I think her moment will come when she remembers what she was like at the beginning of the series, confident, poised, and composed.

But compassionate. She supported Ranka since the beginning and never gave her a hard time. When Ranka overtook her position, she never expressed a word of anger against her. When Sheryl found out she was going to die, she did not complain and blamed her situation on others. She stood back up by her own two feet as the yousei. Ranka on the other hand, complained about her life and surroundings quite often.

Originally Posted by Deryns

As for Ranka having many people to support or take care of her I'm cool with this since that has been the major difference between the two from the start. Self-reliance versus dependence on others has been a major issue for Sheryl from the start. Any relationship is a partnership between two people so it is a lesson she could stand to learn. Sometimes learning is a painful process.

Except Ranka cannot withstand a tiny bit of disappointment. Every time she does, she throws a tantrum. Everything around Ranka, she took for granted, even her stardom, which she later discarded as if it was nothing. Not even heeding to the responsibilities of being a star and the status of savior.

Further, you cannot blame Sheryl for being self-reliant. She was brought up that way. Did she learn to put herself in the hands of others? Yes, since episode 22, its quite obvious that Sheryl is now reliant on Alto for emotional needs. That is her character development and the testament of her willpower!

- Tak (This excessive talk of willpower is starting to remind me of something else entirely)

[Wesley84]

I still have nightmares from that time Ranka flayed Mikhail alive after Alto stood her up for a joyride.

[Paul Hausser]

Couldn't have written it better myself, Tak. Just like anyone else, die Konigin is a product of her earlier life. She has received many bitter lessons from the world and the people around her. That she has grown into a fine woman is only a testament of her willpower.

[Joachim]

like i said before and i will say it again for i dont know how many times..

a heroine with so much suffering will reap the most happiness in the end, cliche? yeah it is.

but we will see if kawamori do punish sheryl too much without giving her anything.. all hell break loose

come on sheryl, a character that was initially cold and "you noob you sux" attitude and have undergone series of development in the entire macross frontier series and ended up with many people cheering for her instead of ranka will get nothing in the end? seriously guys, thats a wasted character development if you asked me

or maybe it is kawamori's trolling, building a lovely character with great character development just so people will get charmed with her over time and put down the hammer of judgement to make the whole mob suffer..

wait im making contradictions here lol

lets compare ranka's hardship vs sheryl's

- ranka's path before being a singstar (unknown, most likely a good childhood until all hell break loose and she lost everyone in her family... but hey she got ozma and brera to boot in the end)
- sheryl path before being a singstar (a poor kid eating garbage, got used by a horny cyberpunk gracey, and end up being a singer and a failed experiment.. right)
- ranka's heartbreak moment (alto is with sheryl,alto is being kissed by sheryl, alto choose to go with sheryl rather with her, alto was seen "together" with sheryl in the rooftop when she wanted to confess to him)
- sheryl' heartbreak moment (failure in giving alto a birthday present he always want, to fly in boundless, limitless sky which got plot haxed to death and instead alto spent it with ranka, "please come back safely" and alto said "i will come back safely with ranka", sheryl overheard that alto have a feeling for ranka)
- sheryl's bad luck (v-type virus impending doom, her career overtaken by ranka, she lost everything after grace betrayed her, possibly being used by the mushroom man and a wishy washy guy called alto)
- ranka's bad luck (errr what is it hmm, oh always misunderstood certain sheryl x alto scene, what else what else.., a little vajra queen is that a bad or good luck?)

so who suffer more now?

ranka lose her family, but she gain ozma, brera, ai kun and nanase that support her

sheryl lose everything most likely and she gain popularity and an evil manager, and all of that almost gone now except her popularity which started to rose up again, and an impending doom which doesn't have any cure.

what now? sheryl will get nothing? ranka will get everything? yea right...

[Deryns]

Originally Posted by Tak

I think you are completely missing the fact that she never had a proper meal in a family setting. Her flashback was not because she was comparing herself then and now. In that scene, after the flashback, she muttered to herself about never having dinner like this before. Proper meal or not, she probably attend to most of her meals alone. Judging by her behavior in front of Alto, I can see that she was overjoyed, and probably her first time eating with a special someone.

Sorry I will try to explain better. I was saying the flashback was being used to contrast past and present, she was an outsider looking in and is now enjoying a domestic evening.

Wrong, she did not want Alto to touch it because it was infectious. The Virus is transmitted by bodily fluids.

I'll concede this point because I did not take that into account.

But compassionate. She supported Ranka since the beginning and never gave her a hard time. When Ranka overtook her position, she never expressed a word of anger against her. When Sheryl found out she was going to die, she did not complain and blamed her situation on others. She stood back up by her own two feet as the yousei. Ranka on the other hand, complained about her life and surroundings quite often.

I don't see the issue as compassion or empathy because she obviously still has those qualities. The question is how does she perceive Alto's attitude towards her, is he staying because he cares or because she is dying? (One of the reasons I wish he would have got there before the reveal.)

Except Ranka cannot withstand a tiny bit of disappointment. Every time she does, she throws a tantrum. Everything around Ranka, she took for granted, even her stardom, which she later discarded as if it was nothing. Not even heeding to the responsibilities of being a star and the status of savior.

Again the question isn't about Ranka's ability to deal it is about Sheryl's. there were many indications she took things about her fame for granted as well. One of the reasons I took some time to get behind her as character.

Further, you cannot blame Sheryl for being self-reliant. She was brought up that way. Did she learn to put herself in the hands of others? Yes, since episode 22, its quite obvious that Sheryl is now reliant on Alto for emotional needs. That is her character development and the testament of her willpower!

- Tak (This excessive talk of willpower is starting to remind me of something else entirely)

I'm not blaming her for it in fact I am glad I haven't had to see how many damsel in distress episodes as with Ranka? What I was commenting on was her tendency to sometimes take it to far. I am reminded of the adage no man is an island. While it is clear to us about her needs with Alto I wonder if it is clear to her.

[Key Board]

Well, I see a parallel in Ranka saying good bye to Alto and Alto pouring his heart to Klan. I see people who are putting an end to their feelings and embarking on a new path

Ranka loved Alto, but she has to move on to what she feels is higher purpose
Alto loved Ranka, but has chosen to move on and select to protect the many

and I believe Sheryl will continue this trend next week with her I loved you, but I must... speech

in Sheryl's case, I think she will seal her heart and fully go the path of the human weapon. She's already doing so by refusing to take meds.

[Lostdreams]

Ranka saw Alto and Sheryl and she made like a whole dam scene. Talk about a dam drama queen. Sheryl hears Alto telling Klan that Alto loves or loved Ranka, she bears it. Quietly, accepting the facts, moving on with the short amount of time she has left, she doesn't go crazy like Ranka did. Sheryl stays strong, even though she feels like dying inside. Sheryl is amazing, as shown in episode 20. Even at her lowest point, in the shelter when people needed her, she sung for them. She sung for Frontier out of her own charity, to boost their morale when Frontier was wrecked. For me, this is truly amazing.

[KiraYamatoFan]

Originally Posted by Lostdreams

Ranka saw Alto and Sheryl and she made like a whole dam scene. Talk about a dam drama queen. Sheryl hears Alto telling Klan that Alto loves or loved Ranka, she bears it. Quietly, accepting the facts, moving on with the short amount of time she has left, she doesn't go crazy like Ranka did. Sheryl stays strong, even though she feels like dying inside. Sheryl is amazing, as shown in episode 20. Even at her lowest point, in the shelter when people needed her, she sung for them. She sung for Frontier out of her own charity, to boost their morale when Frontier was wrecked. For me, this is truly amazing.

You know, not only I love Sheryl's character for that, but for the same reasons you mentioned above I want Ranka to take a Minmay-type of punishment right into the teeth.

I guess we should wait for episode 25, but so far Kawamori and co. seem very very reluctant to throw Ranka into real psychological hell except for the incident on the roof from episode 20. Anyway, I would be the first to cheer like crazy if Ranka gets dumped as hard as Hikaru dumped Minmay (red card! ).

[TwilightHack]

Sheryl's like a DYRL Minmei / Misa hybrid.

That in itself makes for one awesome character.

[Paul Hausser]

Originally Posted by Lostdreams

Ranka saw Alto and Sheryl and she made like a whole dam scene. Talk about a dam drama queen. Sheryl hears Alto telling Klan that Alto loves or loved Ranka, she bears it. Quietly, accepting the facts, moving on with the short amount of time she has left, she doesn't go crazy like Ranka did. Sheryl stays strong, even though she feels like dying inside. Sheryl is amazing, as shown in episode 20. Even at her lowest point, in the shelter when people needed her, she sung for them. She sung for Frontier out of her own charity, to boost their morale when Frontier was wrecked. For me, this is truly amazing.

That is testament to her growth as a person over the course of the series. The old Sheryl probably wouldn't do it. The new one, wiser and, unfortunately, burdened with more sadness, knows how to connect with people better. How unfortunate, that her development is marred with impending doom we all hope she will eventually avoid.

[wolfboy]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

Again! It shows how one-sided the amount of character suffering between the two rivals was distributed by Kawamori and co.

I just hope Ranka will get a Minmay-type of punishment at the end because it's the best way to make up for all the trolling Kawamori did so far.

I don't know if you realized this but a lot of people are drawn towards tragic characters. Sheryl without all that suffering would be crappy. Perfect characters are extremely boring and I don't think Sheryl would be as popular if it wasn't for the suffering, which in turn is part of her character development. Besides, he's not gonna drag her down like this without some nice resolution at the end.

Ranka doesn't need anymore punishment either. She's already written in such a way that she gets hated on by fans while Sheryl gets all the praise *kicks you*

[Marina Ismail]

I'm really sad that... after this series is done, there will never be another female character like Sheryl... only the annoying tsunadres who bullies the (annoying wimpish) male leads... and more Ranka-types coming our way. -_-;

[indr0008]

Originally Posted by BuniiChan

I'm really sad that... after this series is done, there will never be another female character like Sheryl... only the annoying tsunadres who bullies the (annoying wimpish) male leads... and more Ranka-types coming our way. -_-;

yeah, too bad japan still prefers lolis, moe, retarted, and fanservice girls


(not referring to Ranka)

[Tak]

As Sheryl overheard Klan, she simply whispered to herself that she "understood, but, just for now..."

Although to the audience, she misunderstood, but that scene nonetheless brought a tear to me eye. She accepted the 'fact' (as she perceived it) quietly, without throwing tantrums, and stepped aside. She knew her time was short, and she accepted that, as well. That is a testament of her discipline, strength, logic and maturity.

Unfortunately, as others have mentioned, characters like Sheryl are few and far in between, all the while funds are spent upon moe media. A shame, really. In fact, we are recently blessed with Strike Witches, a show so bloody moe, it makes me slightly embarrassed to watch.

Although I must make a few honorable mentions, such as a certain Abh princess, a certain pink-haired idealist, a certain blue-haired-vulcan-cannon-wielding-battle-android-with-power-to-decimate-an-entire-galaxy... wait, thats actually my personal fetish, nevermind.

- Tak

[indr0008]

Originally Posted by Tak

As Sheryl overheard Klan, she simply whispered to herself that she "understood, but, just for now..."

Although to the audience, she misunderstood, but that scene nonetheless brought a tear to me eye. She accepted the 'fact' (as she perceived it) quietly, without throwing tantrums, and stepped aside. She knew her time was short, and she accepted that, as well. That is a testament of her discipline, strength, logic and maturity.

and she is literally going to die...unlike some 16 years old girl.......

Originally Posted by Tak

a certain pink-haired idealist
- Tak

Lacus?

[kilroy0097]

I don't remember very many female characters that take on the role of a strong independent female who also then have the role of primary romantic interest within a triangle and then on top of that has so much artistic flair drawn around her in the forms of costumes, effects and songs. Then top it all off she has a tragic fall in which she has to rediscover herself and then shine through with her original forte of characteristics.

I think that's why so many people love Sheryl is because, as has been said above, her kind of character just doesn't come around often. It's a very special character type due to he rareness in anime. We are all struck by her unique characteristics that the character sticks in our minds and sets a bar.

Ranka, while unique in small ways through some artistic and song flair, is basically a character we have seen many times before in anime. So it's easy to dismiss her characteristics as not special. The same could be said about Alto as there are other male character types that are very similar to him in other anime.

There is no doubt at the end of this season that Sheryl will hold the primary slot in many otaku minds out there as one of the best female characters in modern anime.

And for the record I find Grace to be a significant antagonist female character role in modern anime as well.