Character Discussion - Lelouch

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

I just watched the dubbed episode 2 yesterday, which is what I've been talking about. Tamaki was in P-Group, which consisted of at least five members, including Ohgi and Tamaki. N-Group, meanwhile, had at least five or so members attacking the Britannian KMF pilots when another half-dozen of Lelouch's pilots came up behind the pinned-down Britannians and subdue them.

i dont know
all the same, even if its a dozon knightmares its still nothing when compared to the army clovis had (tanks, infantry and a lot more knightmares)

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

i dont know
all the same, even if its a dozon knightmares its still nothing when compared to the army clovis had (tanks, infantry and a lot more knightmares)

That much at least is true. Clovis held superior numbers, as we saw just before Lelouch put Clovis in check. The only reason why Lelouch came close to winning (before Lancelot appeared) was because he was the superior tactician, had soldiers who knew the lay of the land better than Clovis' soldiers, and because he put his enemy into a panicked state.

[Betteroffer]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

That much at least is true. Clovis held superior numbers, as we saw just before Lelouch put Clovis in check. The only reason why Lelouch came close to winning (before Lancelot appeared) was because he was the superior tactician, had soldiers who knew the lay of the land better than Clovis' soldiers, and because he put his enemy into a panicked state.

There is the added issue of the terrorists using the Britannians own machines against them as a confusion tactic, granting the terrorists a second or two of confusion for a few encounters. There is also the fact that with their IFF's turned off, the terrorists couldn't be detected until they were right on top of their targets, while Lelouch could see his enemies clear as day. To go along with the chess metaphors, Clovis couldn't see where on the board Lelouch's pieces were, while Lelouch could see the entire board.

On the subject of the number of terrorists in Sutherlands, also remember that Suzaku was still taking leftovers out even as Lelouch had made it to the G-1 base and cornered Clovis.

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

There is the added issue of the terrorists using the Britannians own machines against them as a confusion tactic, granting the terrorists a second or two of confusion for a few encounters. There is also the fact that with their IFF's turned off, the terrorists couldn't be detected until they were right on top of their targets, while Lelouch could see his enemies clear as day. To go along with the chess metaphors, Clovis couldn't see where on the board Lelouch's pieces were, while Lelouch could see the entire board.

On the subject of the number of terrorists in Sutherlands, also remember that Suzaku was still taking leftovers out even as Lelouch had made it to the G-1 base and cornered Clovis.

Exactly, Lelouch gave the terrorists a train full of Sutherlands so they had plenty of troops, and as you say he could see the entire board whereas Clovis had no idea who or what he was up against.

Lelouch could see every move Clovis' forces made because he had access to their IFF. Can't say the same for Clovis....

[Nogitsune]

Hm... actually, I think it was indeed Clovis' fault he lost so hopelessly and entirely that day in Shinjuku. It seems eight years without Lelouch as a challenge didn't do his sense of strategy a lot of good.
Lelouch seemed somewhat surprised he went for the "worst possible move".

[Betteroffer]

Moved from the Kallen Thread

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Lelouch used underhanded tactics because of the terrorists' limitations. He saw first hand how inept they were in Shinjiku and later Saitama. 1 unit (Lancelot) single handedly destroyd all of his pawns, and later vs Cornelia elite they were again obliterated. Not only did Britannia outnumber the terrorists it also outclassed them. This was made blatantly obvious in the battle of Tokyo where once a cohesive defense was mounted they lost their momentum and collapsed. He kept using those tactics after becoming Emperor because a) they work wonderfully and b) his army was at a severe disadvantage.

It was mostly because Zero left them and took the Gawain with him, so they lost their aerial advantage and genius leader who could monitor the entire battle, the defences getting their second wind was just bad timing (or perhaps the timing was made by Zero's departure). Still, it does serve to show that they fell apart pretty badly when they didn't have Zero holding their hands through everything.

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

I'm not trying to make Britannia the victim, but to assume that the resistance is justified in their actions is ridiculous. Their actions up until Zero takes over are mostly limited to terrorism, bombings and the like. The thing is most of the casualties are Elevens. The terrorists don't give a damn about their own people, so they use them as shields, risk their lives by living amongst them and even kill them in their bombings and stuff.

True, in the opening episode a news anchor is mentioning a terrorist attack (I can't recall if she mentions that it is the one that just occured, or says it was one from the previous day) that killed "Eight Britannians and 51 others." Clearly they are more focused on "doing damage" than "doing damage to Britannians who deserve it."

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

That's another way of looking at things besides the whole Britannia is evil Britannians are racist etc. This wasn't shown in the series, but I bet that there were Elevens killed by terrorists for trying to do what Suzaku did, cooperate with Britannia and try to work within the system.

Well if Tamaki's reaction to Suzaku outside of Shinjuku is any indication, I'd say you're very right.

Oh, that's another thing for my list on the BK: Ganging up with three adults on two kids. That they backed down when only one other kid (and the only one who could fight) showed up lends even more to their unprofessionalism as combatants.

[morbosfist]

That is a common problem with terrorism, especially when it doesn't have any specific game plan or ability to strike back effectively.

[Paladinoras]

I just rewatched Code Geass R2....

And well, truthfully, I still don't understand half of what happened on the last 5 episodes or so.

Lelouch is such a complicated character with more twists and turns in his head than an M.Night Shyamalan movie.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Paladinoras

I just rewatched Code Geass R2....

And well, truthfully, I still don't understand half of what happened on the last 5 episodes or so.

Lelouch is such a complicated character with more twists and turns in his head than an M.Night Shyamalan movie.

Is there anything specific that you don't understand? Because we're all quite a bunch of diehard CG fans that pretty much know the show in and out, so we'd be happy to help.

But yeah, Lelouch is a very complicated and crazy character.

[Paladinoras]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Is there anything specific that you don't understand? Because we're all quite a bunch of diehard CG fans that pretty much know the show in and out, so we'd be happy to help.

But yeah, Lelouch is a very complicated and crazy character.

Well, first off, what the hell was Marianne and Charles planning? Kill the gods, yadda, yadda, yadda, but I didn't get the whole purpose for it.

And did any official source in the Code Geass universe state that Lelouch died by the end of R2? Or just...I dunno, disappeared?

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by Paladinoras

Well, first off, what the hell was Marianne and Charles planning? Kill the gods, yadda, yadda, yadda, but I didn't get the whole purpose for it.

And did any official source in the Code Geass universe state that Lelouch died by the end of R2? Or just...I dunno, disappeared?

I'm not gonna bother trying to even answer the first because I don't even know for sure what they wanted, and I doubt anyone can say they know exactly what they wanted to do. Let's just leave it at this: they wanted to merge everyone's consciousness into one or something along those lines.

Now, as for Lelouch he is dead but the writers are douche bags so they left it ambiguous for people to make their own endings. They could bring him back with some BS excuse if they do another series because they left a few doors open, Charles code, CC talking to him while looking back towards the mysterious masked cart driver...He could be alive but so far the official story is Lelouch is dead.

[ImmortalFire]

Originally Posted by Paladinoras

Well, first off, what the hell was Marianne and Charles planning? Kill the gods, yadda, yadda, yadda, but I didn't get the whole purpose for it.

And did any official source in the Code Geass universe state that Lelouch died by the end of R2? Or just...I dunno, disappeared?

Well, the gods were a metaphor, it was the collective unconsious of mankind. They wanted to to rid the world of lies, which I think would have meant merging everybody's consiousness. They believed that when nobody could lie to each other then it would create a "gentle world" I'm not sure how the whole "dead rejoin the living" thing would work, unless their consiousness is merged as well.


And I think that it's been confirmed that Lelouch died, but many still think he's alive, because there are many open ends as revolutionist said.

[Paladinoras]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

I'm not gonna bother trying to even answer the first because I don't even know for sure what they wanted, and I doubt anyone can say they know exactly what they wanted to do. Let's just leave it at this: they wanted to merge everyone's consciousness into one or something along those lines.

Now, as for Lelouch he is dead but the writers are douche bags so they left it ambiguous for people to make their own endings. They could bring him back with some BS excuse if they do another series because they left a few doors open, Charles code, CC talking to him while looking back towards the mysterious masked cart driver...He could be alive but so far the official story is Lelouch is dead.

Heh, yeah, I had no idea what they were trying to do, so I couldn't decide whether Lelouch was right in stopping their plan.

Hmm, okay, I'd like to believe that he is alive, but then again, seriously, it doesn't matter if he is alive or dead, he has nothing left to accomplish.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Paladinoras

Heh, yeah, I had no idea what they were trying to do, so I couldn't decide whether Lelouch was right in stopping their plan.

Hmm, okay, I'd like to believe that he is alive, but then again, seriously, it doesn't matter if he is alive or dead, he has nothing left to accomplish.

Well, all you need to know about Charles and Marianne's plan is that it was basically a ripoff of End of Evangelion (if you've ever seen it) Basically everyone would've just become one huge consciousness. It would've basically been the end of the world as we know it. So yeah, I think Lelouch was right in stopping them. As for Lelouch being dead, I'll tell you what I tell everyone else.

[Revolutionist]

Speaking of Charles' plan, it sounds an awful lot like

Spoiler for Gundam 00:

Aeolia Schenberg's plan...

[yvj]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Well, all you need to know about Charles and Marianne's plan is that it was basically a ripoff of End of Evangelion (if you've ever seen it) Basically everyone would've just become one huge consciousness. It would've basically been the end of the world as we know it. So yeah, I think Lelouch was right in stopping them. As for Lelouch being dead, I'll tell you what I tell everyone else.

This man speaks the truth on both counts. Heed his words of wisdom.

Lelouch is dead and




"IT WAS MURDER!"

according to Quincy

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Speaking of Charles' plan, it sounds an awful lot like

Spoiler for Gundam 00:

Aeolia Schenberg's plan...

no...
it sounds like Gendo ikari's plan
shnizel and lelouch's plan each have aspects of that guy's plans
shnizel's plan sorta like what the CB think their goal really is
while lelouch's plan is what the real intention of his plan is

[ac195]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

I'm not gonna bother trying to even answer the first because I don't even know for sure what they wanted, and I doubt anyone can say they know exactly what they wanted to do. Let's just leave it at this: they wanted to merge everyone's consciousness into one or something along those lines.

Now, as for Lelouch he is dead but the writers are douche bags so they left it ambiguous for people to make their own endings. They could bring him back with some BS excuse if they do another series because they left a few doors open, Charles code, CC talking to him while looking back towards the mysterious masked cart driver...He could be alive but so far the official story is Lelouch is dead.

Lelouch vi Britannia is listed as dead.

Lelouch Lamperouge???

DAMN YOU SUNRISE!!!... we are still wondering about Amuro and Char! *shakes fist in the air*

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by ac195

Lelouch vi Britannia is listed as dead.

Lelouch Lamperouge???

DAMN YOU SUNRISE!!!... we are still wondering about Amuro and Char! *shakes fist in the air*

LELOUCH is said to be dead
repeatedly
not in the "maybe ?" kinda way
but in the "he willingly died, as a way to atone for all the shit he's done, and as the price he had to pay for the world he wanted"
he also got one of the longest "really dead montage" scenes in anime history
complete with sad music, life flash before eyes bit, and a full explenation of why he had to die.
he could only be made more dead if he crapped his pants
he is past on
he is no more
he has ceased to be
he has expired and gone to see his maker
he... is a late protagonist

and lelouch had always considered himself to be "Lelouch vi Britannia"
when ever he uses his geass, he uses the phrase "Lelouch vi Britannia commands you"
lamperuge is a cover name

[ac195]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

LELOUCH is said to be dead
repeatedly
not in the "maybe ?" kinda way
but in the "he willingly died, as a way to atone for all the shit he's done, and as the price he had to pay for the world he wanted"
he also got one of the longest "really dead montage" scenes in anime history
complete with sad music, life flash before eyes bit, and a full explenation of why he had to die.
he could only be made more dead if he crapped his pants
he is past on
he is no more
he has ceased to be
he has expired and gone to see his maker
he... is a late protagonist

and lelouch had always considered himself to be "Lelouch vi Britannia"
when ever he uses his geass, he uses the phrase "Lelouch vi Britannia commands you"
lamperuge is a cover name

Hahaha, say w/e you want. Whenever Sunrise wants to make some quick cash they will pull him back out of their pockets. It still doesn't change the fact that Lelouch vi Britannia's name is the one "officially" printed. I wouldn't be surprised if some character L.L. shows up along side C.C. in the future...

DAMN YOU SUNRISE!!! Don't you make enough off of all the gunpla!?