Needless

[Soji]

Originally Posted by _kurusu_

Spoiler for ch.85:

Indeed, Soji. And it's not just because of that but also by the fact the scene shifts back to Cruz just after Strom delivers the fatal blow. I learned a lot from this type of plot move since I started reading manga. It tends to be the harbinger of something bad

Spoiler for ch 85:

Indeed, even for that reason.
If Yamada manages to escape from that situation and discovers What happened to Blade I do not think he will take well.
maybe this will be the last straw that will awaken any power Yamada possess.
At this point I really hope that this memory world is separate from the real world and whatever happens here will not affect the future ...like if Blade die here he not dies in the real world as well.
Or Yamada will feel guilty for all is life (which may be very short if it not comes up with something or AnN not decides to reappear again and help him)
Edit: Now that I think about this would be the perfect trigger for discovering what power Yamada have or if AnN is his inner side, which reacts to his emotions.
If Yamada think that Blade is dead and of course this would lead to think about the death of Eve herself (given the situation) would stirrings up Yamada emotions enough to make us discover the truth.

[Avvesione]

Thanks Ynot!

Originally Posted by _kurusu_

Can't wait for the next. Damn, another month of wait...

Hey, at least this month will be shorter since we're already a few days past the 19th =P

Spoiler:

Well, maybe ANn is going to be in the next chapter. She did appear when Cruz was stuck and had no where else to go at the Black Hole. Also, Blade and Saten aren't around to see how Cruz will be saved. Either that or a power awakens within Cruz. Hopefully whatever saves Cruz will happen in the next chapter. Otherwise...

Do you think when Cruz is safe and the monsters are defeated that Cruz will jump down that pit to face Strom? That would be amazing. I'd never expect to see Cruz save Saten or Blade.

Can't complain about the color page this month. Thought it was going to be something Christmas themed (being the December issue) so it was surprising to be something so serious. It's been years since we saw Eve look normal like that, you know healthy and standing up-right (since before PF Blast). Strange to see Yamada in PGS uniform holding one of his ribbons in his left hand. It's strange seeing him so serious instead of happy, timid, or scared.

Also, look down at the face of the creature holding Cruz's right leg on page 30. Think that's creepy? Also, if you look up, you can see a nipple shot of Cruz. Yeah, I notice way too much detail in stuff like this...

[needless_r+vfan]

Thanks again Ynot for ch 85! I'm gonna read it later today and give my thought on here too! But from what everyone has been saying on here about the new chapter, I 'm really nervous not only for Cruz now but also for Blade and Saten. Can't believe Blade would die now after they got so far.

[Soji]

Originally Posted by Avvesione

Thanks Ynot!



Hey, at least this month will be shorter since we're already a few days past the 19th =P

Spoiler:

Well, maybe ANn is going to be in the next chapter. She did appear when Cruz was stuck and had no where else to go at the Black Hole. Also, Blade and Saten aren't around to see how Cruz will be saved. Either that or a power awakens within Cruz. Hopefully whatever saves Cruz will happen in the next chapter. Otherwise...

Do you think when Cruz is safe and the monsters are defeated that Cruz will jump down that pit to face Strom? That would be amazing. I'd never expect to see Cruz save Saten or Blade.

Can't complain about the color page this month. Thought it was going to be something Christmas themed (being the December issue) so it was surprising to be something so serious. It's been years since we saw Eve look normal like that, you know healthy and standing up-right (since before PF Blast). Strange to see Yamada in PGS uniform holding one of his ribbons in his left hand. It's strange seeing him so serious instead of happy, timid, or scared.

Also, look down at the face of the creature holding Cruz's right leg on page 30. Think that's creepy? Also, if you look up, you can see a nipple shot of Cruz. Yeah, I notice way too much detail in stuff like this...

Spoiler for ch 85:

It is true that strange to see Cruz with a straight face, and if you noticed in his right hand in an iron pipe (I think)
From that image I think we should not expect gags in later chapters seems to herald a last part of the arc really serious.
And I must say I would not mind seeing Cruz rescue of Blade and Saten, imagine the face of Saten if Cruz defeat Strom

[needless_r+vfan]

Originally Posted by Soji

Spoiler for ch 85:

It is true that strange to see Cruz with a straight face, and if you noticed in his right hand in an iron pipe (I think)
From that image I think we should not expect gags in later chapters seems to herald a last part of the arc really serious.
And I must say I would not mind seeing Cruz rescue of Blade and Saten, imagine the face of Saten if Cruz defeat Strom

I totally agree with you Soji; I think now is the right time for Cruz to do the saving. Maybe we will all get our wish and Cruz will finally get a fragment of some sorts. He could really use one right now.

[js06]

First of all, thanks for the raw Ynot.
Secondly, summary time:

Spoiler:

Toria attacks Cruz and Saten tries to rush in, but the bars are electrified. Saten decides to melt the bars, but Mengroze opens up a trap door below Saten and Blade. Mengroze calls in Strom on them.

Mengroze starts calling Toria beautiful and that she looks like god. He explains that the Bible states that god made man to be similar to himself, but not exactly the same. He says that humans, 3D beings, have created 2D beings and that god, who created humans, must be another dimension above. He explains that that means god must have more heads, arms, and legs than humans. (How does that make any sense?) He says that this is what a perfect being should be like. Cruz thinks he's crazy. (Gee, I wonder why?)

He says the people working on the Adam Project didn't understand all this. He says that since they insisted on making their son of god be in a human form that they would never understand laws of the universe. He says they called his techniques wrong and that god and the second christ don't want what he was doing.However, he claims that human language, knowledge, clothes, and conscience are all products of evolution. He says if we deny evolution we are denying our humanity and denying god who created us. He says god has given humanity possibility and that humans can make the impossible possible if they work at it. He says that he has perfected the art of cloning. He says that there is no good or evil in evolution you need only to use it correctly. Cruz tells him he's wrong.

Saten uses the fourth wave on Strom but Strom blocks it. Strom is surprised that Saten was able to evaporate his 16-layer ice wall, but manages to freeze Saten's arms so he can't use the fourth wave again. Blade tries to attack but ends up getting hit by Strom's "Prison Gate - Eryouju" attack. It freezes Blade in a tree of ice. Strom explains that the Eryouju is a tree on the Sanzu river. The clothes of the dead are placed on a branch of the tree to see if it breaks which weighs the person's sins. Strom says that Blade has committed the sin of picking a fight with Overlord and punches his leg and proclaiming that the branch has broken.

Mengroze is happy to see that increasing the joints in the arm has increased the power of its attacks. Cruz ends up next to the cage and the other test subjects grab him. Mengroze tells Cruz that he should be careful because Toria isn't the only test subject as the chapter ends.

Wow, that ended up a lot longer than I intended for it to be.

[needless_r+vfan]

Originally Posted by js06

First of all, thanks for the raw Ynot.
Secondly, summary time:

Spoiler:

Toria attacks Cruz and Saten tries to rush in, but the bars are electrified. Saten decides to melt the bars, but Mengroze opens up a trap door below Saten and Blade. Mengroze calls in Strom on them.

Mengroze starts calling Toria beautiful and that she looks like god. He explains that the Bible states that god made man to be similar to himself, but not exactly the same. He says that humans, 3D beings, have created 2D beings and that god, who created humans, must be another dimension above. He explains that that means god must have more heads, arms, and legs than humans. (How does that make any sense?) He says that this is what a perfect being should be like. Cruz thinks he's crazy. (Gee, I wonder why?)

He says the people working on the Adam Project didn't understand all this. He says that since they insisted on making their son of god be in a human form that they would never understand laws of the universe. He says they called his techniques wrong and that god and the second christ don't want what he was doing.However, he claims that human language, knowledge, clothes, and conscience are all products of evolution. He says if we deny evolution we are denying our humanity and denying god who created us. He says god has given humanity possibility and that humans can make the impossible possible if they work at it. He says that he has perfected the art of cloning. He says that there is no good or evil in evolution you need only to use it correctly. Cruz tells him he's wrong.

Saten uses the fourth wave on Strom but Strom blocks it. Strom is surprised that Saten was able to evaporate his 16-layer ice wall, but manages to freeze Saten's arms so he can't use the fourth wave again. Blade tries to attack but ends up getting hit by Strom's "Prison Gate - Eryouju" attack. It freezes Blade in a tree of ice. Strom explains that the Eryouju is a tree on the Sanzu river. The clothes of the dead are placed on a branch of the tree to see if it breaks which weighs the person's sins. Strom says that Blade has committed the sin of picking a fight with Overlord and punches his leg and proclaiming that the branch has broken.

Mengroze is happy to see that increasing the joints in the arm has increased the power of its attacks. Cruz ends up next to the cage and the other test subjects grab him. Mengroze tells Cruz that he should be careful because Toria isn't the only test subject as the chapter ends.

Wow, that ended up a lot longer than I intended for it to be.

Thank you for the summary js06. I've been having trouble downloading ch 85. Toria is not the only thing Cruz has to face?!?

[Ynot]

Thanks for the quick and thorough summary js06.

Spoiler for needless:

Strom only let Toria live because she was a girl. That's pretty evil if you know she's going to be a test subject for Mengroze. So does Mengroze only wants females for "materials" or was that just a coincidence? If so maybe he calls Toria back before she can kill Yamada. Why waste good materials right? Still, that would be majorly anticlimactic and wouldn't do anything for Saten and Blade, so I'm guessing that's not very likely.

But perhaps Yamada can convince Toria and the other subjects to help him. He can't evade her attacks anymore so there isn't much else he can do. He could tell them he knows a professor(Guido) who could help them get their original bodies back. It's mostly Toria's crying which makes me think there's a chance this could work.

I don't think you have to fear for Blades life Kurusu and Soji. If Saten didn't lie, the entire Memory world would come crashing down if that happened. I think the most we have to fear is blade losing a limb.

I swear if somehow the grown up version of Blade will enter this world(don't think that's possible) and save Yamada(again) I better not be drinking something, cus it'll be sprayed all over my keyboard....would be funny though

[needless_r+vfan]

Originally Posted by Ynot

Thanks for the quick and thorough summary js06.

Spoiler for needless:

Strom only let Toria live because she was a girl. That's pretty evil if you know she's going to be a test subject for Mengroze. So does Mengroze only wants females for "materials" or was that just a coincidence? If so maybe he calls Toria back before she can kill Yamada. Why waste good materials right? Still, that would be majorly anticlimactic and wouldn't do anything for Saten and Blade, so I'm guessing that's not very likely.

But perhaps Yamada can convince Toria and the other subjects to help him. He can't evade her attacks anymore so there isn't much else he can do. He could tell them he knows a professor(Guido) who could help them get their original bodies back. It's mostly Toria's crying which makes me think there's a chance this could work.

Maybe a little of Toria's humanity survived the experiment and she saw what she became. I think your theory is quite good, Ynot. Her crying does seem to indicate that maybe a little bit of her humanity is fighting for control over her body. As you stated, maybe Cruz can reach out to what's left of Toria's humanity.

[Soji]

Originally Posted by needless_r+vfan

Maybe a little of Toria's humanity survived the experiment and she saw what she became. I think your theory is quite good, Ynot. Her crying does seem to indicate that maybe a little bit of her humanity is fighting for control over her body. As you stated, maybe Cruz can reach out to what's left of Toria's humanity.

Please remember to use spoilertag when talking about the spoiler chapters such as ch 85.
In any case js06, thanks for the summary of the chapter

Spoiler for ch 85:

fortunately blade was not killed.. I swear I thought strom had torn Blade into pieces hit tha tree of icet .
in each case Mengroze is a fool, seriously what kind of theories ill he has
Ynot=I also noticed I Toria's Sad face with the tear seemed hopeless .. but I think she wants to be killed ... so I doubt that Yamada can convince her to do as you said in your theory.
I hope Yamda can resolve this situation and teach a that mad of Mengroze how much he is wrong in his idea of evolution.

[needless_r+vfan]

Spoiler for Ch 85:

Just viewed Ch. 85 now. A big thanks again to both Ynot for the raw and js06 for the summary!

After looking at Ch. 85 I changed my thoughts about Toria. I think Toria's crying because I think she realized what she became no thanks to psycho Mengroze. It seems now she is simply in a frenzied rage due to the shock of what she's become and I don't think any amount of talking will work. It really freaked me out to see all those "experiments" grabbing poor Cruz when he was cornered against that holding cell.

Ah, I gotta love Strom's attire Nothing says intimidation than showing up to a fight in your pajamas and slippers. But seriously Strom continues to prove he has the intelligence and the power to stop darn near anyone who crosses him regardless of what he wears. Perhaps Saten can somehow break his hands free, and Blade has doppelganger, so he could maybe regenerate his leg, if he can thaw out of course.

But I think I'm gonna stop making predictions, etc. from now on and just wait until the next issue comes out. You guys make far better and clearer predictions and theories than I do!

[Ynot]

Spoiler for needless:

It wouldn't surprise me if Toria would like to be killed Soji, but she can't seriously expect Yamada to give her that kind of mercy, and going against Mengroze would give her a better chance at death than just going along with what he says. Maybe that's why Mengroze wanted to let Toria fight Yamada, because he was sure Yamada wouldn't have the ability to hurt his precious experiment. I really wonder what kind of control Mengroze has over his creations. Is it just fear he'll do something even worse to them if they don't listen?

After looking a bit closer it seems Mengroze is safely behind some kind of protective Glass, so perhaps he doesn't control his experiments at all.

[Soji]

Spoiler for Spoiler:

Ynot I understand what you mean regard to Cruz he has the heart too soft .
but you remember what Avvesione has emphasized regard the second color page ?

Strange to see Yamada in PGS uniform holding one of his ribbons in his left hand. It's strange seeing him so serious instead of happy, timid, or scared.

and I added

It is true that strange to see Cruz with a straight face, and if you noticed in his right hand in an iron pipe (I think)
From that image I think we should not expect gags in later chapters seems to herald a last part of the arc really serious.

What I mean is..that probably the next ch kill or at least try to kill for the first time.
until now has always helped but he never killed by himself and perhaps this will be the last step its growth and revival of some power(fragment,AnN side or whatever that power is).
or at least this is what I think that serious image symbolizes and he even without the scar on his left arm as I said a few posts ago.

[Homura7]

After reading the summary... shit.

Spoiler for spoiler:

I can already imagine the scenario. Next chapter will focus solely on Cruz, until he finally manages to solve his situation, and then... he will go down and the first thing he'll see... shit, SHIIIT...

Both this chapter and particularly the color spread are a clear hint we won't be seeing many gags in the following chapters. The facial expressions are just too serious.

[needless_r+vfan]

Spoiler for ch 85:

It just viewed ch 85 again and noticed that when Toria struck Cruz on page 8 she struck him hard enough that blood sprayed out from Cruz's mouth. Then further on page 13 when Toria cries, it's as if she felt some sort of remorse for what she did. But then she is after him again.

[Ynot]

Originally Posted by _kurusu_

After reading the summary... shit.

Both this chapter and particularly the color spread are a clear hint we won't be seeing many gags in the following chapters. The facial expressions are just too serious.

I tend to agree with you, but I hope we're both wrong. I expected some kind of joke involving Yamada's genderbending by now but still...nothing and it sure doesn't look like there's going to be any.

[Kefit]

Originally Posted by _kurusu_

Both this chapter and particularly the color spread are a clear hint we won't be seeing many gags in the following chapters. The facial expressions are just too serious.

Nah, this is Needless. I think there will always be gags around, even if we move into a more serious part of the series - which I don't think can really truly be done until we return to the real world anyway! For instance, Strom is still traipsing around in his ridiculous PJs.

Spoiler:

I'm sick of Mengroze's rants about his experiments and evolution. They take up a lot of page space, aren't terribly interesting, and don't seem relevant to the plot or characters. Nothing interesting happened with Mengroze despite taking up the majority of this chapter; Cruz was in exactly the same position at the start as he was at the end.

The stuff with Strom was great though. It may be disheartening to see him cut so quickly so Blade and Saten, but that was still movement. Something Cruz's half sorely lacked. Also, Strom is gigantic. I mean, I knew he was huge, but he completely dwarfs Saten, and Saten is a fairly large man.

Hard to say what will happen with Blade here. Part of me thinks that the standard cut away at moment of impact trick means that he'll be fine, we just won't find out how for a while. The other part of my thinks that, if Strom does kill Blade, this world would start collapsing, providing a convenient excuse for Saten and Cruz to get out of dodge. Of course, this could have unforeseen consequences on he real Blade's psyche.

If there's one thing I'm sure of though, it's that I'm excited to see Strom show up in the real world. I just hope we don't have to wait too much longer for it.

[Avvesione]

Originally Posted by js06

Wow, that ended up a lot longer than I intended for it to be.

Thanks for the summary. It certainly helps knowing for sure what's going on in the chapter.

Spoiler:

Also, Mengroze basically took up a whole page by himself talking (He's very animated with his hands when he talks), so that kinda makes the translation a little longer. But this won't be as bad as Chapter 60 for you. Maybe the next chapter will have a lot more fighting in it and give you a break?

[Avvesione]

Me responding to 3 of Kefit's quotes:

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by Kefit

I'm sick of Mengroze's rants about his experiments and evolution. They take up a lot of page space, aren't terribly interesting, and don't seem relevant to the plot or characters. Nothing interesting happened with Mengroze despite taking up the majority of this chapter; Cruz was in exactly the same position at the start as he was at the end.

I don't care too much for the whole Mengroze's experiments explaination/thing but what amazes me is that's the same guy who TREATED Cruz in the hospital during the Resistance. I have a feeling that Mengroze talking about all this God stuff may lead to Cruz remember more about his time spent in the hospital with Mengroze or something along those lines. I'm wondering how crazy Mengroze was when he worked on Cruz in the past.

Otherwise, I agree with you that artwork > texts.

Originally Posted by Kefit

Hard to say what will happen with Blade here. Part of me thinks that the standard cut away at moment of impact trick means that he'll be fine, we just won't find out how for a while.

That reminds me of something...

Spoiler:

Although I doubt it'd be the exact same as that time. We do know he hasn't hit any of Blade's vitals yet.

Originally Posted by Kefit

If there's one thing I'm sure of though, it's that I'm excited to see Strom show up in the real world. I just hope we don't have to wait too much longer for it.

Do you have any thoughts on where he might be? Seems like he was in Simeon in the past but maybe is the current head of Overlord in the present. I wonder if he left Simeon on good terms or not. I guess if he didn't, he'd be getting a visit from Aruka...

---

Spoiler:

Seems like this chapter is going back to the horror aspect of Needless. It's been a while since we had any horribly deformed monster running around attacking people (Arclight before PF Blast and Arclight during the AP memory come to mind). Can't say I like this type of stuff but I do admit it's interesting. Got to admit the factor of fear is certainly higher at the end of this chapter than any other in the series. Cruz was always around other friends before but he's completely alone (?) now.

Also, going back to the color picture: I won't read too much into it but it's pretty significant since all the previous ones were happy/fan servicey type omake. This is the first one where it's set in the actual setting of Needless. If you look more into Cruz's expression, it looks as there is a bit of sadness (compare with Eve's expression). I'd say it looks as though Cruz feels empty. Kinda sad to think about all he's been going through during the whole series.

Cruz would probably have a mental breakdown if he sees Blade or Eve die in this memory world. (and I mean if they couldn't bring Eve back since she kinda already died)

Also, this chapter continues one of the themes in Needless that women are evil (at least to Cruz). That's the main reason why I hope ANn shows up. I know there's a group out there that wants to see Cruz develop as a character or obtain/realize a fragment, but I hope there's a kind angelic figure that can save Cruz from his almost certain doom.

[Soji]

Originally Posted by Kefit

Nah, this is Needless. I think there will always be gags around, even if we move into a more serious part of the series - which I don't think can really truly be done until we return to the real world anyway! For instance, Strom is still traipsing around in his ridiculous PJs.

Spoiler:

I'm sick of Mengroze's rants about his experiments and evolution. They take up a lot of page space, aren't terribly interesting, and don't seem relevant to the plot or characters. Nothing interesting happened with Mengroze despite taking up the majority of this chapter; Cruz was in exactly the same position at the start as he was at the end.

The stuff with Strom was great though. It may be disheartening to see him cut so quickly so Blade and Saten, but that was still movement. Something Cruz's half sorely lacked. Also, Strom is gigantic. I mean, I knew he was huge, but he completely dwarfs Saten, and Saten is a fairly large man.

Hard to say what will happen with Blade here. Part of me thinks that the standard cut away at moment of impact trick means that he'll be fine, we just won't find out how for a while. The other part of my thinks that, if Strom does kill Blade, this world would start collapsing, providing a convenient excuse for Saten and Cruz to get out of dodge. Of course, this could have unforeseen consequences on he real Blade's psyche.

If there's one thing I'm sure of though, it's that I'm excited to see Strom show up in the real world. I just hope we don't have to wait too much longer for it.

Spoiler for spoiler:

Wait.. you compare two powerful and experts Needless like Saten and Blade to Cruz
Ok ,Cruz is become more resistant and brave..but you cant but expect he get results like Saten or Blade. for me in this chapter he done well ...especially if you compares as how he was has how his now, he even encased DemonToria's hit

Spoiler:

Seems like this chapter is going back to the horror aspect of Needless. It's been a while since we had any horribly deformed monster running around attacking people (Arclight before PF Blast and Arclight during the AP memory come to mind). Can't say I like this type of stuff but I do admit it's interesting. Got to admit the factor of fear is certainly higher at the end of this chapter than any other in the series. Cruz was always around other friends before but he's completely alone (?) now.

Also, going back to the color picture: I won't read too much into it but it's pretty significant since all the previous ones were happy/fan servicey type omake. This is the first one where it's set in the actual setting of Needless. If you look more into Cruz's expression, it looks as there is a bit of sadness (compare with Eve's expression). I'd say it looks as though Cruz feels empty. Kinda sad to think about all he's been going through during the whole series.

Cruz would probably have a mental breakdown if he sees Blade or Eve die in this memory world. (and I mean if they couldn't bring Eve back since she kinda already died)

Also, this chapter continues one of the themes in Needless that women are evil (at least to Cruz). That's the main reason why I hope ANn shows up. I know there's a group out there that wants to see Cruz develop as a character or obtain/realize a fragment, but I hope there's a kind angelic figure that can save Cruz from his almost certain doom.

I understand what you mean...In fact, as I mentioned in a post the die of blade o Eve in this memory world would be a shock to cruz but at the same time something that make him grow .
About AnN ,I would not mind if she appears ... especially if star starts to appears in the real wordl as well .
Imagine if Blade and the others see Cruz's talk alone and instead he talk to AnN, would be a comedy scene