2009-03-16, 00:56 | Link #2142 |
The Owl of Minerva
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Regarding the post-WW2 kanji hatred, actually the Chinese government has also tried to push forward a gradual scheme of kicking away kanji in the 50s, by first introducing the simplified kanji and then the completely romanized ones (pinyin). I am glad that they failed though and got stuck at the simplified Chinese stage .
As many has mentioned before homonyms is a very severe problem and can render most full romanization attempts of kanji languages useless. Try this and feel the pain of a world without kanji . Note that even though the intonations are marked, the whole thing is still far from legible. Try also to appreciate the elegance and simplicity of kanji by comparing the original text with the English translation. Spoiler for Pinyin version:
Spoiler for Kanji original text:
Spoiler for English translation:
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2009-03-16, 01:31 | Link #2143 |
Senior Member
Author
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA
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Guess the Korean hatred of Japan helped them.
Before the kankou example I figured stuff could've just been interpreted on context but I guess that's what happens when stuff's been too heavily infused and the same sounding stuff is actually different (though in speaking wouldn't that need its own clarification?)
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2009-03-16, 15:03 | Link #2144 |
tl;dr
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 32
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Ahah, I remember stumbling across the lion-eating poet thing through various Wiki links! Love it, quite interesting and funny. Very classical Chinese of course, I showed it to my mom and she couldn't understand it... but in any case, yeah, it would be bad to get rid of Hanzi/Kanji, however difficult they are.
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2009-03-16, 21:45 | Link #2146 |
OK.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Fields of High Attus
Age: 34
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There's still many fierce opponents of simplification of kanji and I can see why; the traditional characters have that original spirit around them and sometimes make more sense...
...but I'm ever thankful that I have never had to write 學校 or 國分寺 or 身體 or 錯亂. Then again if they had kept it I guess I'd have to have gotten used to it just like with all the other unchanged kanji like 机→機 (arrrrrrgh I still hate writing it) I do enjoy writing 責 instead of 责 and other examples though I was reading up yesterday on the Toyo kanji list brought out immediately after the war, and kakimaze which results in you being able to cheat on harder words, even for things not so many would think about now like 斡旋 (which still comes up as あっ旋 in the IME) I still would far prefer writing 改ざん to 改竄 though, even though I thought it was some strange archaic verb at first.
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2009-03-17, 11:48 | Link #2148 | |
Gone for Good
Join Date: Apr 2004
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It was because of these kanji that I was able to learn Japanese faster, since my language (Chinese) was more or less similar, admittedly, that gave me some advantage over other non-Oriental learners. Just like how the Western European languages share a common "language DNA" in Roman alphabets, and Eastern Europeans in Cyrillic alphabets, so too does the Oriental languages of Chinese, Japanese, Korean and Vietnamese share a common DNA of hanzi/kanji/hanja. They just cannot be mixed together. The supremacy of the European powers in the 19th century led to an illusion that Roman alphabets are superior and is synonymous with modernity and all that sort of stuff, which is actually all bollocks, but led to naive nationalists all over attempting to forcefully transform their language to suit that of Roman alphabets, which may lead to awkward results. It's like telling a willow tree to become an oak because oaks are stronger. Thank goodness the Chinese and Japanese didn't abandon hanzi/kanji, and it's only recently the Koreans are contemplating reusing hanja, because they find they can hardly interpret their own ancient texts, which were all written in hanja. IIRC, the lion-eating poem was submitted to a newspaper by this university philology professor to illustrate his point about the absurdity of total romanization of the Chinese language. |
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2009-03-17, 22:29 | Link #2150 | |
OK.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Fields of High Attus
Age: 34
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I kid you not, I learned hiragana and katakana entirely through trying to figure out what the hell was being said in Pokemon Ruby when the Japanese version first came out. It's actually an excellent way because you are being tested consistently (even for simple names) and are forced to remember. Makes you remember basic grammar, too
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2009-03-18, 02:55 | Link #2152 |
ドジ
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a house
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I think attitudes towards kanji will always be a point of disagreement between Chinese and Westerners trying to learn Japanese (with me belonging to the former category ). There's no denying that kanji makes reading Japanese a whole lot easier for Chinese people, and a whole lot more challenging for Westerners.
I wonder whether the Japanese themselves are divided on this matter? Perhaps Japanese adults and primary school pupils would have diametrically opposing attitudes. Hehehe Incidentally, part of the reason why North Korea abandoned kanji/hanja is down to nationalism. Kanji/hanja and even vertical right-to-left writing were seen as vestiges of Japanese colonialism (not true) and Chinese dominance in the past (true, but no one ever forced Korea to use kanji/hanja; it was just the natural thing to do). I believe South Korea abandoned kanji/hanja as a matter of convenience and not nationalism. Last edited by Yukinokesshou; 2009-03-18 at 03:09. |
2009-03-18, 15:34 | Link #2155 | |
( ಠ_ಠ)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
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Quote:
No, in modern usage, it's used to address someone you look down on, or you hate/despise.
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2009-03-18, 20:49 | Link #2156 | |
進む道は武士道のみ
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dying to get back to Japan (but currently near Chicago)
Age: 36
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In any case though, adopting only romaji or getting rid of kanji would be a horrible idea. |
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2009-03-19, 14:49 | Link #2159 | |
土は幻に
Fansubber
Join Date: Dec 2005
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hiragana |
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