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Old 2010-12-19, 18:17   Link #1941
loctar87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Bernkastel didn't show the truth in Ep6, she showed a blatant lie and she knew it.
She forged a whole deal of documents based on the conclusion that Natsuhi was the culprit, and it was completely false.

The claim that Bernkastel is evil but she still shows the truth doesn't stand. Evidence shows that she doesn't care if the culprit is real or just an innocent that was framed.
Lambda knows the truth, but it was never shown that Bernkastel had any idea who the real culprit was until this episode. She ruthlessly pursued Natsuhi, but that was because Natsuhi refused to the very end to acknowledge the truth of Kinzo's death.
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Old 2010-12-19, 18:21   Link #1942
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Originally Posted by Cao Ni Ma View Post
I agree with everyone in here that says that Bern is pulling a fast one on the crew with the tea party. The thing is, how is she doing it? She's stated that she isn't the game master, but what if she is? Would doing things that aren't possible with the pieces end up with her falling into a logic error? I really hope this is the case to have a sense of satisfaction in locking her up in one in EP8!

I don't remember the name, but someone here has been pretty convincing with his claim that the tea party is a story told by Eva.


Bern maybe found a kakera where Eva decided to tell the "truth" to Ange, and she assumed that such story was the truth. After all there was absolutely no one else that could deny it.


However Eva's sanity after the Rokkenjima incident is questionable. It might still be a huge lie.


Quote:
Lambda knows the truth, but it was never shown that Bernkastel had any idea who the real culprit was until this episode. She ruthlessly pursued Natsuhi, but that was because Natsuhi refused to the very end to acknowledge the truth of Kinzo's death.
She didn't know who was the culprit but she knew it wasn't Natsuhi, and she was perfectly aware that Natsuhi didn't slept with Kinzo, and yet she made it look that way. Bern doesn't simply uses the truth to defile people, she also uses deceits and lies.
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Old 2010-12-19, 18:22   Link #1943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet-kun View Post
Say...

How is that the same incident happened in Lion's world? Wouldn't the bomb have gone off if Beato wasn't there to tell them about the switch?
That would mean Kinzo would have had to arm the bomb. And everyone would have been dead by Oct. 5. And how could have Eva escaped to Kuwadorian?
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Old 2010-12-19, 18:22   Link #1944
loctar87
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Originally Posted by Helmet-kun View Post
Say...

How is that the same incident happened in Lion's world? Wouldn't the bomb have gone off if Beato wasn't there to tell them about the switch?
Wasn't Kinzo still alive in that world? He could have told them.
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Old 2010-12-19, 18:25   Link #1945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loctar87 View Post
Lambda knows the truth, but it was never shown that Bernkastel had any idea who the real culprit was until this episode. She ruthlessly pursued Natsuhi, but that was because Natsuhi refused to the very end to acknowledge the truth of Kinzo's death.
Bern knew that Kinzo was dead. There was no need for Natsuhi to acknowledge that.
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Old 2010-12-19, 18:26   Link #1946
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And who prepared the bank account?

There is no reason for Kinzo to do that. He never converted his gold for 40 years in the normal universe, why would he do that in Lion's world?

The story just doesn't work if there isn't a secret nameless bank account with 1 billion in it.
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Old 2010-12-19, 18:28   Link #1947
loctar87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonozakiUshiromiya View Post
Bern knew that Kinzo was dead. There was no need for Natsuhi to acknowledge that.
As I said earlier: Bernkastel's signature is to expose the ugliest truth, shove it into the face of people who deny it, and laugh at their suffering.
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Old 2010-12-19, 18:29   Link #1948
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Originally Posted by loctar87 View Post
As I said earlier: Bernkastel's signature is to expose the ugliest truth, shove it into the face of people who deny it, and laugh at their suffering.
But this wasn't a truth, it was a lie! Bern didn't expose a truth, she made up a lie.
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Old 2010-12-19, 18:38   Link #1949
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loctar87 View Post
Wasn't Kinzo still alive in that world? He could have told them.
Kinzo armed the bomb himself, and according to Yasu, he played with it at his whim. The golden VIP room was Kinzo's true study. This is all from that story you claim is true.
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Old 2010-12-19, 18:39   Link #1950
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
But this wasn't a truth, it was a lie! Bern didn't expose a truth, she made up a lie.
Well......she doesn't like losing. She gave Natsuhi more chances than she deserved to come clean, and brutally punished her when she didn't. I'm not sure there were any explicit lies in her statements anyways. She twisted it so Kinzo could only be alive if she was sleeping with him. She let Natsuhi destroy herself.
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Old 2010-12-19, 18:40   Link #1951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loctar87 View Post
As I said earlier: Bernkastel's signature is to expose the ugliest truth, shove it into the face of people who deny it, and laugh at their suffering.
That's not exactly true. Bernkastel played 'nice' when she was carrying out the funeral (for the most part), and like a grumpy janitor started kicking things over while cleaning the mess up.
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Old 2010-12-19, 18:43   Link #1952
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Originally Posted by Helmet-kun View Post
That's not exactly true. Bernkastel played 'nice' when she was carrying out the funeral (for the most part), and like a grumpy janitor started kicking things over while cleaning the mess up.
She even said she "was tired of being the bad guy" at one point toward the end. I almost respected her. Almost.
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Old 2010-12-19, 18:57   Link #1953
Nero Allelujah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
And who prepared the bank account?

There is no reason for Kinzo to do that. He never converted his gold for 40 years in the normal universe, why would he do that in Lion's world?

The story just doesn't work if there isn't a secret nameless bank account with 1 billion in it.
That's also a weird thing that popped out. In EP3-4 there were several bank accounts made available for all the people who lost relatives in Rokkenjima, so we are left to assume that a higher degree of preparation should have been made in this episode as well instead of just one account...and the supposedly bank card is obtained by just one person, Eva. So how can that all in happen when Yasu clearly said he converted some of the gold and handed the bank card...?
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Old 2010-12-19, 19:03   Link #1954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loctar87 View Post
As I said earlier: Bernkastel's signature is to expose the ugliest truth, shove it into the face of people who deny it, and laugh at their suffering.
Well it was just one of the many fragments in the universe, not only that when Ange demanded she'd repeat it in red..she was abruptly cut up, but it was seen that she was gonna add more, to me, she's just saying the truth of that ONE fragment. Nothing more or less. If Ange really wanted the truth, she should have demanded Bern to say in red that the probability of this murder happening was a certainty with her parents being the culprit. Its true, they could've been the ones to do it, but so could others.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
She even said she "was tired of being the bad guy" at one point toward the end. I almost respected her. Almost.
Oh Bernn, you almost made us believe in you...
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Old 2010-12-19, 19:48   Link #1955
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Isn't the EP7 Tea Party just the kakera where everyone bands together to solve the Epitaph? I don't see why its validity is in question. Never before are we shown explicitly a world where the adults try to solve it together. After all, if the scuffle between Eva and Krauss didn't happen, then Kyrie and Rudolf wouldn't have killed the others. They acknowledged this.

Bern is just being a bitch and revealing this to make Ange cry, but that doesn't mean it's false.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that "It's the truth of what REALLY happened on Rokkenjima", but I still think that it is a plausable explanation of one of the possible Umineko results.
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Old 2010-12-19, 19:54   Link #1956
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Originally Posted by DaBackpack View Post
Isn't the EP7 Tea Party just the kakera where everyone bands together to solve the Epitaph? I don't see why its validity is in question. Never before are we shown explicitly a world where the adults try to solve it together. After all, if the scuffle between Eva and Krauss didn't happen, then Kyrie and Rudolf wouldn't have killed the others. They acknowledged this.

Bern is just being a bitch and revealing this to make Ange cry, but that doesn't mean it's false.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that "It's the truth of what REALLY happened on Rokkenjima", but I still think that it is a plausable explanation of one of the possible Umineko results.
That's quite true, its validity cannot be questioned as it is quite a possible scenario of what could've happened, now if it happened to be the worst possible scenario for Ange, then we get two characters who decide not to think at all and believe Bernkastel's words until Will arrives.

Facts>Passion..no clues were shown.
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Old 2010-12-19, 20:03   Link #1957
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Except Bern claims that every possible scenario is like this. Not that it's a scenario she found. So we have the right to question it's validity.

Kyrie and Rudolf also really have no reason to kill all of them this way as presented. Like she said the gold was going to blow up even if she didn't. And she has no way of knowing the card key actually has money on it other than being meta. Her reasoning about Krauss actually raises doubt that she would conclude there's Billions of yen on the card. So basically it's "I killed them because I can lol".
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Old 2010-12-19, 20:15   Link #1958
Nero Allelujah
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Oh I see then, I mentioned that its validity could not be questioned if it was one of the many possibilities, but if it was just the one, then yeah, it should be questioned.

Although, I do believe money/greed could've been a possible motive for them and hell, we both know that if they wanted to do it they could've done it. But it still feels like its not enough, Bern ignored the "heart" of the mystery, so it definitely feels like its not the right answer.

What you said about the card key and her reasoning of Krauss does seem true, but its not like they could really doubt Yasu after all the truth she gave out...
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Old 2010-12-19, 20:19   Link #1959
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
Except Bern claims that every possible scenario is like this. Not that it's a scenario she found. So we have the right to question it's validity.

Kyrie and Rudolf also really have no reason to kill all of them this way as presented. Like she said the gold was going to blow up even if she didn't. And she has no way of knowing the card key actually has money on it other than being meta. Her reasoning about Krauss actually raises doubt that she would conclude there's Billions of yen on the card. So basically it's "I killed them because I can lol".
But Kyrie is cold and calculating: she knows she doesn't lose anything if she kills everyone on the island. Either
a.) There is money on the card and she gets rich without getting in trouble (the island blows up),
or
b.) The is no money on the card and she can just make off with a few of the ingots she stole from the pile.

It's a win-win situation. Even if Rudolf dies, she's free from him and can live her life how she wants to.

I will concede that I don't think this is the result of every possible scenario, but I do think there is some truth behind it.
I still think this game has no happy ending is true, if you think that this IS a single possible result from the parents solving the Epitaph. But I guess we'll find out in a few weeks XD
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Old 2010-12-19, 20:27   Link #1960
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Originally Posted by DaBackpack View Post
But Kyrie is cold and calculating: she knows she doesn't lose anything if she kills everyone on the island. Either
a.) There is money on the card and she gets rich without getting in trouble (the island blows up),
or
b.) The is no money on the card and she can just make off with a few of the ingots she stole from the pile.

It's a win-win situation. Even if Rudolf dies, she's free from him and can live her life how she wants to.
This. This right here...

Kryie ENVIED Asumu.If she was as cold and calculating as portrayed in the EP7 tea party, don't you think that she would have offed Asumu alot sooner than a decade? Or had Battler killed while he was off with his grandparents? She certainly had no problem killing anyone on that island, and she had made that decision in five minutes.
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