Mahou Girl Lyrical Nanoha The MOVIE 1st, Expectations and Speculation

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

Oh, God dammit. I shouldn't even bother opening my mouth anymore.

Nya~n, thank you for your support. I appreciate it, more than you can know, but this is a running problem with Demi and I. Still, thank you for taking the time to help me out.

Demi, I'm sorry. I'm really, truly sorry. If there was another thread where I could post my opinion of the movie, I would. I swear I would. Unfortunately, this is the only place where I can post about it for discussion and opinion, because mentioning it anywhere else would be off-topic.

Again, I'm sorry. But I have nowhere else to post my opinion for the movie.

Oh, now you're just making me feel bad. All I ask is that you at least try to come up with something positive in your posts in this thread from time to time. I'm sure you can at least see where I'm coming from.

I rarely check most other threads, so unless It's the manga, image, or movie thread...Chances are, I won't be there.

The EXPECTATIONS on Haruhi S1.5 were high. How would fans know that Endless Eight would go that way? How would fans know that the least interesting Haruhi novel (the making of the Mikuru movie) would be animated? Fans expected Disappearance, not Sighs.

The key in Funya-n's point is in what people EXPECT. Yours regarding the movie being something like the Second Coming are unreasonable. It might turn out to be a good movie, nice to pass time with beer and pizza but something as groundbreaking as Mononoke Hime? Come on.

PS: My expectations over the Disappearance are as low as the Unlimited Blade Works movie. You cannot squeeze one light novel volume in ONE movie.

Even if my expectations of the movie are very high, I'm not expecting the same expectations from everyone. I only expect there to be expectations, however small they are. But Haruhi S2 had the potential to be very good, and a certain some one deliberately ruined that potential to make a profit off repeating the same thing. The Nanoha movie director is not trying to make a quick profit, although he has profit in mind. I mean, every scene in the movie was redesigned. Even if it is a retelling, this movie is still going to cost them a hefty sum of money.

Thanks Nina, at least I know I'm not the only one who thinks that way.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Demi.

Oh, now you're just making me feel bad. All I ask is that you at least try to come up with something positive in your posts in this thread from time to time. I'm sure you can at least see where I'm coming from.

Did I ever once say the movie was bad? No. Did I say I thought it would suck? No. I never pointed out anything negative about it, so why do you want me to say something positive? All I stated was that currently, the movie isn't something that lives up to my expectations. That isn't a negative thing to say, it's my opinion on the movie. I never once said the movie would be bad. I just said that currently, my expecations of it are low based off what I've seen.

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

Did I ever once say the movie was bad? No. Did I say I thought it would suck? No. I never pointed out anything negative about it, so why do you want me to say something positive? All I stated was that currently, the movie isn't something that lives up to my expectations. That isn't a negative thing to say, it's my opinion on the movie. I never once said the movie would be bad. I just said that currently, my expecations of it are low based off what I've seen.

And what about the trailer didn't impress you?

Pretty much... everything.

It's a recurring incident, and that's the problem. In your opinion, you have no expectations for the movie.

I can sense this on the verge of turning into another debate. Profile comment me, please.

[TheShinySword]

Excuse me I have no interest in getting involved in this cycle of annoyance but I have to point out expectations are not necessarily good things. One can in fact have bad expectations, one can expect that things will be bad. That's a valid expectation.

[RadiantBeam]

...

Bah, I give up completely.

On topic, any idea why Precia seems more family-friendly in the movie than she did in the series?

[Bananoha]

Originally Posted by Nina.Wolken

That may be just me, because I pay more attention to what is MSLN related, but it looks like the Nanoha Movie is receiving more advertising that the Haruhi one, or even the FSN one. Just looking at various mags covers & contents, I see Nanoha everywhere @.@' ( which is bad for my purse).
So, is that just an impression?

Kadokawa is trying to do something to my Nanoha. ;A;

Don't forget that Nana's going to appear on kouhaku. While the ratings aren't what they used to be, it's still huge deal, especially for the seiyuu world. This is what I'm kind of thinking:

Dec 31: kouhaku appearance
Shin Ai should leave a good impression on even the enka crowd if she sings it well, which she probably will.
↓
Jan 13: PHANTOM MINDS single
1) Of course we'll see wota buying this cuz it's Nana and/or Nanoha related.
2) It's the closest single being released near her birthday. Think Shin Ai.
3) Kouhaku, kouhaku, kouhaku.
↓
Jan 21: Mizuki Nana's birthday
Jan 23: Nanoha movie
Okay, so we'll have the original Nanoha fans. We'll have the fans who watched the re-airing of A's for the first time. Considering how Nana often talks about how important the Nanoha series is for her [just look at the MC before she sings acoustic version of innocent starter], maybe we'll get the odd reverse fans going from Nana/Yukarin fans who for some reason haven't seen Nanoha to get into the series or at least see the movie.

I know Pick-up Voice also had a front page thing about Yukarin and Nana for the movie, but there was only Yukarin. Where's my YukaNana? :< Not sure about the other seiyuu magazines. Nana is in quite a lot of magazines these days anyway, I mean it's not like she wasn't already popular....

Argh, and I just remembered she's going to be on like ep 14 of Radio StrikerS. e_e;

[TheShinySword]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

...

Bah, I give up completely.

On topic, any idea why Precia seems more family-friendly in the movie than she did in the series?

*pats*

Someone, I think in the manga thread, suggested the whole Fate lied to the director about Precia's meanness thing.

[Keroko]

I prefer the 'this is a flashback to Alicia's time' theory.

[Estavali]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

...

Bah, I give up completely.

On topic, any idea why Precia seems more family-friendly in the movie than she did in the series?

It's all very simple =3

The movie is, as suggested in the accompanying sound stage, made in Midchilda and IIRC advised by Nanoha and Fate.

Now, would you expect Fate to portray her biological(?) mother in a hardly sympathetic light, even if it reflects the truth? Hardly so. And if we consider the possibility that she may be quite popular amongst the Midchildan public (which in turn may be why a movie is made from their past), the sight of a crazed woman, her mother no less, torturing their favorite Enforcer will definitely make Precia Testarossa the no.1 hated woman in no time (as what our own community has clearly demonstrated). Not something that Fate would be happy to see, despite her sufferings under said mother.

(To be fair, in the early stages of Precia's madness, she may still be able to feel a child's innocence and thus display some remote show of motherly kindness. However, if we consider the fact that she sees Fate as no more than an incarnation of the very accident that killed Alicia and the possibility of the thought repeating and refreshing itself in her mind in a vicious cycle, I seriously doubt the good woman could bring herself to even pity one as loathsome to her as the "fake Alicia" before her.)

In short, with Fate involved, showcasing a cruel but 100% authentic Precia is out of the question.

And if this movie is PG-rated, whipping a little girl in front of small children is hardly advisable, isn't it?

[Nina.Wolken]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I prefer the 'this is a flashback to Alicia's time' theory.

That's it, without any doubt. The manga for the Movie shows Precia under her true light. She was a nice & caring mother who completely lose it trying to bring her child back to life.

Estavali's theory doesn't make too much sense. If Fate had wanted to picture Precia as a nice mother, she wouldn't be saying in the trailer that she has to fight for her, that all the hardship she is going through is for her mother's sake.

That would not make any sense.

Nice Precia was and will always be before Fate birth/creation/appearance/wtv. Only Alicia knew her like that... Unless Fate inherited part of Alicia's memory, she had no idea as a kid what a gentle mother was like.

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Estavali

And if this movie is PG-rated, whipping a little girl in front of small children is hardly advisable, isn't it?

Does it give the ratings somewhere? I'd think the first season of Nanoha would be PG-13.

...Though the director did mention nekkid henshin sequences in the movie, so...

[Noe]

The series is seinen.

[Keroko]

Perhaps, but the genre doesn't really have an influence on the rating.

Regardless, different countries have different standards on what makes a rating, so what might be a pg13 by American standards might not be so by Japanese.

[TheShinySword]

seinen is a demographic denominator not a genre. Just sayin'

And the Japanese are distinctly more lineant on their ratings than Americans.

[Estavali]

Originally Posted by Nina.Wolken

That's it, without any doubt. The manga for the Movie shows Precia under her true light. She was a nice & caring mother who completely lose it trying to bring her child back to life.

Estavali's theory doesn't make too much sense. If Fate had wanted to picture Precia as a nice mother, she wouldn't be saying in the trailer that she has to fight for her, that all the hardship she is going through is for her mother's sake.

That would not make any sense.

Nice Precia was and will always be before Fate birth/creation/appearance/wtv. Only Alicia knew her like that... Unless Fate inherited part of Alicia's memory, she had no idea as a kid what a gentle mother was like.

Hmm? Oh dear, I made a mistake about that page where Precia was crying over Alicia's note. I thought she was weeping over something that Fate wrote >_<

My apologies. Looks like I need to re-read that manga again....

However, I stand by my point about the possibility of Fate sweetening things up about Precia. I simply do not think Fate would allow Precia to shown in a manner that will cast a totally negative impression on the intended audience (which in this case is the Midchildan public). She doesn't hate her, or so I understand, or she would have erased the Testarossa in her name after her adoption (and save us the trouble of running through such a long name -_-) and trash that photo she has of Precia and Alicia.

Even though Precia's kindness was meant only for Alicia and not for her (which, I think, by now is something she understands only too well).

And Fate does have some of Alicia's memories of the kind, loving Precia, as shown in S1 episode 11 (first thing we saw after the OP ends). Fragments, but enough to reinforce the image of a mother that loved her (one that unwittingly and unfortunately also reinforced her determination to do her mother's biddings in the vain hope to regain her affections). Also, her short stay in Reinforce Eins' illusionary realm might have also gave her an idea how the Testarossa family was like before Alicia's death.

Another possibility is that she could have modelled the "happy house of Testarossa" after her own experiences after she was adopted by Lindy. Despite the latter's curious taste in tea, I should think she was a good mother to our long-suffering girl, won't you say? =3

And lastly... She's an Enforcer and has a friend in the Infinite Library. With these two conditions, checking Precia's past through prior records as well as statements from her former colleagues shouldn't be too difficult. Especially if Fate (whom we, once again, assume is quite famous on Midchilda) makes the trip herself. Unless the person asked bears a lasting grudge against Precia, I believe s/he wouldn't be too eager to badmouth her in front of the (dead) person's own daughter (whether they are aware of Precia's hatred for Fate, is of course another matter).

Personally I think it's a combination of all four possibilites.

A point to note, Fate doesn't even need to lie about anything. She could just ask the director to focus more on Precia's better side and less on the madwoman side. It's a common method used in biographies, I understand, when one feels uncomfortable about the blatant twisting of facts, especially for the not-so-pleasant areas.

Originally Posted by Demi.

Does it give the ratings somewhere? I'd think the first season of Nanoha would be PG-13.


...Though the director did mention nekkid henshin sequences in the movie, so...

I was thinking of what kind of rating the Midchildans would slap onto this one =3.

But then again, be it the fictional Middies or the real us, showing a young girl lashed while tied up and hanged by her hands is certainly not my idea of family-friendly entertainment (unless you're part of the Adams family).

[RadiantBeam]

Fate: These aren't scars! These are signs of how much Mother loves me!

...

I'm an evil, evil person.

[Estavali]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

Fate: These aren't scars! These are signs of how much Mother loves me!

...

I'm an evil, evil person.

Well... there could be 4 reactions if Fate tells people how she could still forgive Precia despite the harsh life she had under her:

1) "GOSH, SHE'S SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO KIND AND SAINTLY!!! HOW COULD ANYONE BUT HER ALONE TAKE SUCH CRUEL TREATMENT AND YET STILL BE ABLE TO FORGIVE A MONSTER LIKE THAT WOMAN?!"

*and this person breaks down crying, so greatly moved by her kindness*

2) "... Hah! Playing the saint, are we?" *snorts*

3) "Oh dear, this does look like a very bad case of trauma clouding her perception. We must make haste and prescribe a timely remedy to her condition."

4) *blinks* "Enforcer Fate likes... SM?"





*RUNZ!*

[Nina.Wolken]

Originally Posted by Estavali

A point to note, Fate doesn't even need to lie about anything. She could just ask the director to focus more on Precia's better side and less on the madwoman side. It's a common method used in biographies, I understand, when one feels uncomfortable about the blatant twisting of facts, especially for the not-so-pleasant areas.

[...]

But then again, be it the fictional Middies or the real us, showing a young girl lashed while tied up and hanged by her hands is certainly not my idea of family-friendly entertainment (unless you're part of the Adams family).

I really need to re-watch season 1, I forgot about episode 11 u_u". Thanks for reminding me.
And, even if I don't believe Fate would try to distort the truth (even under the influence of her own experience/job/surrounding), I agree with the first statement I quoted hereabove.
Without taking the pain to change how Precia ended *cough*mind-f*cked scientist*cough*, the movie can just focus how she was before : kind and caring.
This way, I believe the hated the fans had toward her until now will lessen and we will finally understand why she was so dear to Fate and why she went so far for her.
The whipping and stuff might just be put aside, I wouldn't care too much. Thought, for someone who don't know about S1, it would be a big loss to eclipse that part. They would not understand why she somehow deserved to disappear (or at least why nobody tried to save her, save for Fate herself)...

Oh, and your last statement cracked me up! orz

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

Fate: These aren't scars! These are signs of how much Mother loves me!

...

I'm an evil, evil person.

*sight from the audience*

Fate: What?! Is that not how one should tighten the bonds with its kids?

And then we all understand why Erio and Caro decided to leave Fate to take care of the environement on some random planet ... far away.

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Estavali

Hmm? Oh dear, I made a mistake about that page where Precia was crying over Alicia's note. I thought she was weeping over something that Fate wrote >_<

My apologies. Looks like I need to re-read that manga again....



And Fate does have some of Alicia's memories of the kind, loving Precia, as shown in S1 episode 11 (first thing we saw after the OP ends). Fragments, but enough to reinforce the image of a mother that loved her (one that unwittingly and unfortunately also reinforced her determination to do her mother's biddings in the vain hope to regain her affections). Also, her short stay in Reinforce Eins' illusionary realm might have also gave her an idea how the Testarossa family was like before Alicia's death.

I found that scene very hard to know for sure. If Fate didn't write it, then Fate has a whole lot of Alicia's memories, because she, herself, remembered writing it. (Even if it took her a moment to think about it)

If she does not have most of Alicia's memories, then I'm not sure why she would remember writing a paper on how kind her mother was to her, unless she was the one who wrote it.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Nina.Wolken

This way, I believe the hated the fans had toward her until now will lessen and we will finally understand why she was so dear to Fate and why she went so far for her.

Wasn't this already explained in the first season, though? I was always under the impression that Precia was dear to Fate because she had Alicia's memories of her as a kind, loving mother, which she mistook for her own memories, and she went so far for her because she wanted Precia to go back to how she 'remembered' her being.