2010-06-22, 21:41 | Link #11461 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Quote:
Spoiler for weird:
Besides who says Jessica isn't the mastermind behind shkanon if it's true?
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2010-06-22, 21:50 | Link #11462 | |
Ace Detective
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MIA
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But as for the mastermind behind Shkanon... again, I can't see her as a evil villain. If she truly is ignorant of Shkanon and Kinzo's death, then she simply has to be delusional in some sense. I suppose this could aid Doubletrice or whatever, but in a more narrative sense, Jessica, more than anyone else, is in a position where her world as she knows it could collapse horribly. Shkanon I'm actually fine with, as I can understand Shannontrice and I can understand the premise behind Shkanon. But Jessica always seems to trouble me. Not QUITE enough to pin her as involved, but not QUITE enough to pin as not involved. As things stand, she is in the perfect position to live the role of her mother in episode 5. But that fact troubles me for the very reason that authors hardly ever use the same "trick" twice. |
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2010-06-22, 21:53 | Link #11463 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Quote:
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2010-06-22, 22:00 | Link #11464 |
Ace Detective
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MIA
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On the other hand, it IS rather evil to not inform people that the maid who is apparently dead is very much alive, even more so when people are dying all over the place.
See where I am going? Supposing that Shkanon is true, and supposing that Jessica knows about it in a non-insane manner, she's incriminated from episode 1! |
2010-06-22, 22:07 | Link #11465 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Quote:
Same with Jessica. Maybe sometimes she's involved in the fake death thing, but if the accomplices are randomized in each episode she doesn't have to be all the time. And I don't think she is a lot of the time. Oh wait your talking about Kanon...yeah... that's pretty evil kind of. Only towards George though.
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2010-06-22, 22:13 | Link #11466 |
Ace Detective
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MIA
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It's troubling. Quite troubling. I think it's safe to say, that if Shkanon is true: Jessica is either one of the most villainous characters in the series, very much insane, or an ally of Beatrice for some noble but most likely insane reason.
Yikes, this is why I don't like Shkanon. Although, if Jessica does repeat her mother's role of being totally delusional, I somehow think the whole thing will climax in her being revealed to be the other Battler. After all, the first thing I would LOVE to know after being told my life is a lie is that I'm adopted. |
2010-06-22, 22:40 | Link #11467 |
Kupo
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sleeping
Age: 32
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That's the thing. Not just because it's shocking, but because it makes absolutely no sense given what we've been shown of Jessica's character. Remember Knox's 8th - there's absolutely nothing pointing towards her being a bipolar delusional maniac. As sort-of-awesome as that sounds.
Well, not that I can think of .
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2010-06-22, 23:27 | Link #11468 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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Since this is a kind of role-playing game, even if Nanjo comes across people playing dead, he'll suspend disbelief and pretend that they really are dead in order to keep the game going. Furthermore, if he is expecting people to be playing dead, he may not inspect them as closely as he would otherwise, causing him to overlook actual deaths that aren't immediately obvious. This does imply that EP4 has an entirely separate thread of action where Nanjo "investigates" the murders in the mansion. I'm not sure if that's supportable from the evidence yet, though.
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2010-06-22, 23:27 | Link #11469 | |
Trust the red.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Guest House
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Well, what about the scenes in EP2 where she talks about creating another Jessica? That could certainly suit the bipolar delusional part (but not maniacal). |
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2010-06-22, 23:37 | Link #11470 | |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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Quote:
"I've called you all here to the Accusing Parlor to watch as I gradually solve the crime." "My first clue came at 4 PM, when the clock stopped, and another came two hours later at 4 PM when I discovered the murdered body of Rosa's dead deceased corpse!" "It's just as I suspected! The crime... is unsolvable!" They even have an actual accusing parlor.
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2010-06-22, 23:47 | Link #11471 | |
Kupo
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sleeping
Age: 32
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I think it's been said many times, and I thought about it a bit, but that just seems like normal behavior for a teenager/anybody really around their parents. Jessica just explained it that way because, well, Kanon doesn't know what normal behavior for a teenager is . It might have been intended as a "scene setter" or metaphor for somebody else in the story who is actually bipolar, true. But I don't think I'd say that it actually indicates that Jessica has a villainous alternate personality.
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2010-06-23, 00:17 | Link #11472 | |
Purupurupiko-Man
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: My beloved hometown, the mackerel river running through it
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Definitely. Her and Kumasawa are the hardest for me to place. (They could be working together on something - what were they talking about at the start of EP2? If there's a faction that is neither accomplices or the utterly clueless, I'd place them in it.) |
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2010-06-23, 00:22 | Link #11473 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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If anyone in Umineko could be described as "bipolar", it's Rosa, but she actually has something more along the lines of borderline personality disorder. |
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2010-06-23, 00:22 | Link #11474 | |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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2010-06-23, 00:25 | Link #11475 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Well, there's also the gold chamber, but I somehow doubt Nanjo knows where that is. |
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2010-06-23, 00:53 | Link #11476 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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So something serious enough is still required. Anywhere. All of the red in this scene refers to 'a living Kinzo', which can easily 'not exist' anywhere, because it doesn't exist at all.
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2010-06-23, 01:08 | Link #11477 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Again, I certainly can't think of a reason other than someone appropriating the body, for use as blackmail.
Of course, then that would mean that Natsuhi isn't burning the body at all. Quote:
Actually, most of the reds in that scene refer only to "Kinzo", and should apply whether he is alive or not. The only reds involving a "living Kinzo" are referring to the time when he could have been in the room and where he would be inside the room, that is, Natsuhi's bed. |
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2010-06-23, 01:15 | Link #11478 | ||
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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I find the idea that an actual use was very much intended more likely than that, but I can't find this use. Party barbecue?.... Quote:
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2010-06-23, 02:02 | Link #11479 |
受話器持って魔女・エアトリーチェ
Join Date: Apr 2009
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I think those reds were manipulated to bully Natsuhi. Kinzo isn't alive. Once Kinzo dies, he technically "no longer exists" in a way. Those reds are strung together so that Kinzo's LIVE existence (i.e. his existence as a living breathing person) telescopes from the island, to the mansion, to the floor number, to Natsuhi's room, then to Natsuhi's bed. However, the plain and simple truth is that he doesn't exist on the bed either. He doesn't exist anywhere. Bern and Erika were just telescoping to the point of Natsuhi's bed because they can and wanted to mess with her. They wanted to weave the most wicked and evil truth they could :/
For example: There is no knife anywhere outside the house. There is no knife anywhere outside the second floor. There is no knife anywhere outside master bedroom on the second floor. There is no knife anywhere other than dresser in the master bedroom. There is no knife anywhere other than upper right hand corner. There is no knife anywhere other then the 10 square inches in the upper right hand corner of the dresser. There is no knife anywhere. I think this is one of the major clues that 07 gives in EP5. Reds can be manipulated so that it might imply that something exists somewhere, but in that implication there is doubt. Just because you restrict the areas it could be doesn't mean that it even exists in the first place. |
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