AnimeSuki Forums

Hitenma · 2013-06-06, 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeNoJaku

Look, I understand that these kind of films are made just for profit, instead of some inherent artistic pursuit or vision, but doesn't that fact bother anyone here? I really have a hard time even understanding why would a parent take his children to watch the sequels, leaving aside the fans of the book, that cherished it during their childhood.

I like the movies and I'm glad that they are made, so I couldn't care less whether it is for "artistic pursuit or vision" or not.

killer3000ad · 2013-06-11, 13:15

YouTube

https://youtu.be/IcCK55ZnoKM

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

... and here we go.

Vexx · 2013-06-11, 17:16

Having now seen Legolas' little forest buddy sidekick (the redhead), I'm pretty much okay with her inclusion. After all, Legolas himself is the flipping son of the king and he wasn't even mentioned in the book. The Mirkwood sequence has plenty of room for retroactively connecting the dots back from LOTR to the Hobbit and I figure Tolkien would have retro-rewritten the Hobbit to connect up with LOTR later if he'd lived long enough.

One thing I'll say is that there's more Peter Jackson flair seems like in this one than in LOTR (though nothing beats the hilarious Army of Dead swarming something behind Aragorn as he chats).

With the wood elves, I get a feeling of beautiful lethality - like jungle panthers and tigers.

Endless Soul · 2013-06-11, 17:41

Oh, they kept the butterflies at the treetops scene. Nice.

Endless "SCHMETTERLING!" Soul

Ithekro · 2013-06-11, 17:54

December seems so far away.

GDB · 2013-06-11, 19:23

Liking Legolas there. Always enjoy seeing familiar faces.

Master_Yoma · 2013-06-11, 22:25

So is this going to be anther 3hours or there going for 4 but that dragon look dumb

Renegade334 · 2013-06-12, 05:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master_Yoma

(blah) but that dragon look dumb

Well, they said they would be using John Howe's (the well-known book illustrator) design as template for Smaug's appearance, so if you were hoping the dragon would look like Alduin or Deathwing on steroids, you're terminally out of luck.

One of the dragons in Tolkienverse, Scatha, was even described as a "long-worm" (probably a nod to wyrm, which can mean "serpent" in Old English), so it is by no means strange or illogical to envision Smaug as a long, thin and sinuous beast and not some sort of big, scaly, flying cistern.

oompa loompa · 2013-06-12, 05:49

Just found out Benedict Cumberbatch is Smaug.. that.. that's pretty cool, I must say.

Mr Hat and Clogs · 2013-06-12, 07:31

Dragons used to be more serpent-ish in the past to, rather than buff world eating lizard.

GDB · 2013-06-12, 08:09

Isn't that how they're generally portrayed in Asia too? With the "buff lizard", as it were, being the European concept?

Mr Hat and Clogs · 2013-06-12, 09:13

Well, the european one was more.. buff lizard than the eastern version which is basically a flying snake, but compared to todays dragons that have clearly put time in with the protein powder the old european ones were positively snake like. The were often shown as... slim.. and serpent-ish... while still looking kinda like a lizard. In part I think it had to do with religious views towards snakes and so on (The Beast in Christianity being a seven headed dragon, with a sinuous neck and body, which is representative of the devil, IIRC been a looooooooooooooong time since I've done anything with religion).

Google St Georges Dragon, for comparison.. with say... I dunno, Deathwing?

Renegade334 · 2013-06-12, 09:38

European Dragons were originally nothing more than winged serpents - it was only after a while and through artistic refinement and cultural splicing that they gained legs (wyverns) and even arms - and became stouter (probably because they were relegated to being a colorful avatar of greed and avarice).

But this interpretation has roots that go way deeper than even the onset of Christianity; it was already present in the Fertile Crescent (the Zoroastrian culture does have a series of dragon-like creatures, which IIRC served to inspire the later European dragon appearance) and in Ancient Greece (though they were suspiciously similar to either giant snakes and hydras). Most of the dragons back then were already associated with evil or greed.

The Christian scriptures (either the official texts or the pseudepigrapha) likened the Devil to a "red dragon" or something like that (the "Beast from the sea" that appears in the Book of Revelations is actually a chimera, that happens to borrow anatomical features from dragons). This is by no means innocent because if you read the Genesis, the Devil actually takes the shape of a serpent to tempt Adam and Eve into eating the forbidden fruit. And after the deed was done and both humans were expelled from Eden, God punished the snake by removing its legs (yep, you read that right: until then, snakes had legs), condemning it to forever roam the world by crawling instead of walking.

So the truth is that the Devil was first a snake, then it became a dragon because of the popular "snakes and dragons share the same family tree" belief.

/Off-topic.

Tolkien, however, took more inspiration from the Norse/Germanic myths, so I believe he was more partial to the imagery of Fafnir (the hoard-guarding, greedy dragon *cough*), Beowulf's dragon (what a coincidence, JRRT translated Beowulf before doing LotR), Nidhogg, etc...many of whom were snakelike and not Alduin-like.

Endless Soul · 2013-06-12, 10:13

Well, if one does an image search in google, you can easily see that ol Smaug has been represented as both buff lizard and long and sinewy snake with legs and wings. Take your pick.

Endless "Missing scale" Soul

Obelisk ze Tormentor · 2013-06-12, 10:28

I'll just pick Sean Connery:

Best dragon so far

.

mystogan · 2013-06-12, 12:12

Legolas is back in the next movie!, this just keeps getting better and better and i think we are getting a lot of badass action now especially with the elves and teh dragon looks really awesome

oompa loompa · 2013-06-12, 12:17

One thing though.. That I really hope they change

Spoiler for Book spoiler:

Endless Soul · 2013-06-12, 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by oompa loompa

One thing though.. That I really hope they change

Spoiler for Book spoiler:

Yeah but...

Spoiler for Book spoiler:

We'll see what the movie does.

Endless "Speed well" Soul

Ithekro · 2013-06-12, 12:45

I can see something that makes that work.

Spoiler for Magic:

oompa loompa · 2013-06-12, 12:53

Well sure, but even if

Spoiler for :

this thing single handedly destroyed the greatest dwarven city.. ever. on its own ez pz no problems.

2013-06-11, 13:15	Link #382
killer3000ad Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Australia Age: 41	YouTube https://youtu.be/IcCK55ZnoKM Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload? ... and here we go. __________________

2013-06-11, 17:16	Link #383
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	Having now seen Legolas' little forest buddy sidekick (the redhead), I'm pretty much okay with her inclusion. After all, Legolas himself is the flipping son of the king and he wasn't even mentioned in the book. The Mirkwood sequence has plenty of room for retroactively connecting the dots back from LOTR to the Hobbit and I figure Tolkien would have retro-rewritten the Hobbit to connect up with LOTR later if he'd lived long enough. One thing I'll say is that there's more Peter Jackson flair seems like in this one than in LOTR (though nothing beats the hilarious Army of Dead swarming something behind Aragorn as he chats). With the wood elves, I get a feeling of beautiful lethality - like jungle panthers and tigers. __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2013-06-11, 17:41	Link #384
Endless Soul Megane girl fan Join Date: May 2011 Location: Diagonally parked in a parallel universe. Age: 55	Oh, they kept the butterflies at the treetops scene. Nice. Endless "SCHMETTERLING!" Soul __________________ Signature by ganbaru

2013-06-11, 17:54	Link #385
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	December seems so far away. __________________

2013-06-11, 22:25	Link #387
Master_Yoma Nekokota Festival Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lost in the Fairy Forest	So is this going to be anther 3hours or there going for 4 but that dragon look dumb __________________

2013-06-11, 19:23	Link #386
GDB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Age: 38	Liking Legolas there. Always enjoy seeing familiar faces.

2013-06-12, 05:49	Link #389
oompa loompa Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: 28° 37', North ; 77° 13', East Age: 33	Just found out Benedict Cumberbatch is Smaug.. that.. that's pretty cool, I must say.

2013-06-12, 07:31	Link #390
Mr Hat and Clogs Did someone call a doctor Join Date: Apr 2007 Age: 40	Dragons used to be more serpent-ish in the past to, rather than buff world eating lizard. __________________

2013-06-12, 08:09	Link #391
GDB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Age: 38	Isn't that how they're generally portrayed in Asia too? With the "buff lizard", as it were, being the European concept?

2013-06-12, 09:13	Link #392
Mr Hat and Clogs Did someone call a doctor Join Date: Apr 2007 Age: 40	Well, the european one was more.. buff lizard than the eastern version which is basically a flying snake, but compared to todays dragons that have clearly put time in with the protein powder the old european ones were positively snake like. The were often shown as... slim.. and serpent-ish... while still looking kinda like a lizard. In part I think it had to do with religious views towards snakes and so on (The Beast in Christianity being a seven headed dragon, with a sinuous neck and body, which is representative of the devil, IIRC been a looooooooooooooong time since I've done anything with religion). Google St Georges Dragon, for comparison.. with say... I dunno, Deathwing? __________________

2013-06-12, 09:38	Link #393
Renegade334 Sleepy Lurker Graphic Designer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Nun'yabiznehz Age: 38	European Dragons were originally nothing more than winged serpents - it was only after a while and through artistic refinement and cultural splicing that they gained legs (wyverns) and even arms - and became stouter (probably because they were relegated to being a colorful avatar of greed and avarice). But this interpretation has roots that go way deeper than even the onset of Christianity; it was already present in the Fertile Crescent (the Zoroastrian culture does have a series of dragon-like creatures, which IIRC served to inspire the later European dragon appearance) and in Ancient Greece (though they were suspiciously similar to either giant snakes and hydras). Most of the dragons back then were already associated with evil or greed. The Christian scriptures (either the official texts or the pseudepigrapha) likened the Devil to a "red dragon" or something like that (the "Beast from the sea" that appears in the Book of Revelations is actually a chimera, that happens to borrow anatomical features from dragons). This is by no means innocent because if you read the Genesis, the Devil actually takes the shape of a serpent to tempt Adam and Eve into eating the forbidden fruit. And after the deed was done and both humans were expelled from Eden, God punished the snake by removing its legs (yep, you read that right: until then, snakes had legs), condemning it to forever roam the world by crawling instead of walking. So the truth is that the Devil was first a snake, then it became a dragon because of the popular "snakes and dragons share the same family tree" belief. /Off-topic. Tolkien, however, took more inspiration from the Norse/Germanic myths, so I believe he was more partial to the imagery of Fafnir (the hoard-guarding, greedy dragon cough), Beowulf's dragon (what a coincidence, JRRT translated Beowulf before doing LotR), Nidhogg, etc...many of whom were snakelike and not Alduin-like. __________________ << -- Click to enter my (dead) GFX thread.

2013-06-12, 10:13	Link #394
Endless Soul Megane girl fan Join Date: May 2011 Location: Diagonally parked in a parallel universe. Age: 55	Well, if one does an image search in google, you can easily see that ol Smaug has been represented as both buff lizard and long and sinewy snake with legs and wings. Take your pick. Endless "Missing scale" Soul __________________ Signature by ganbaru

2013-06-12, 10:28	Link #395
Obelisk ze Tormentor Black Steel Knight Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Indonesia	I'll just pick Sean Connery: Best dragon so far . __________________

2013-06-12, 12:12	Link #396
mystogan The Lost Lamb Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: in Darkness	Legolas is back in the next movie!, this just keeps getting better and better and i think we are getting a lot of badass action now especially with the elves and teh dragon looks really awesome __________________

2013-06-12, 12:17	Link #397
oompa loompa Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: 28° 37', North ; 77° 13', East Age: 33	One thing though.. That I really hope they change Spoiler for Book spoiler: Is the death of Smaug. A single arrow through a missing scale to kill a giant dragon? Yeah.. only works in a book, particularly one which is written like the hobbit. That's how he bites it right? If I remember correctly at least...

2013-06-12, 12:45	Link #399
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	I can see something that makes that work. Spoiler for Magic: The Wiki says it was forged by the dwarves long ago. No magical properies are given, but it always has come back and it never misses. Cause Bard still has to take down the Dragon...not Legolas. The other option is having it be an arrow of the enemey (Agmar) that was taken and used by the humans long after The Witch King departed his old kingdom of Agmar. __________________

2013-06-12, 12:53	Link #400
oompa loompa Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: 28° 37', North ; 77° 13', East Age: 33	Well sure, but even if Spoiler for : its a super magical arrow this thing single handedly destroyed the greatest dwarven city.. ever. on its own ez pz no problems.