ViVid Strike! Anime General Discussion Thread

[Aetherdraw]

Originally Posted by FlameSparkZ

We might still get an episode telling Fuuka's life before joining the gym (and maybe even the moment when Rinne was adopted and her new life), hopefully somewhere halfway through the series

We just got Rinne's backstory today, and by god was it brutal...

[novalysis]

Originally Posted by TYxTxYT

To make it clear, I agree he can write a full story when the pressure of an original anime is on him so that he can't wander off track, however given his history, he is likely to compensate this "lack of innovation" elsewhere, such as awkward new installments and/or fifty filler characters.

Originally Posted by Arcc

Some very good points made there, especially the question of why connect it to ViVid.

All the same, this does seem like it's constrained to a set number of episodes, with a plot arc established early on. I can see it going two ways. Either things continue down that track there at ViVid's casual, slice-of-life pace, and there's not much reason to introduce a new character focus at all. . . or, the initial plot will soon be driven hard off the rails and into unexpected territory by exterior threat escalations, like in the old days.

I think the frustrating thing here is that Vivid could have worked if it was organized much more clearly into well defined arcs, much like you see in normal Shounen-Fighting mangas. And each arc was treated as well defined, confined stories, with a set-up, characterization, conflict, stake escalation, external intervention and denouement. In other words, had the author of Nanoha treated Vivid as an arc based story where each arc was written according to the constraints of writing for a single anime season of one cour, then Vivid probably would have been better told.

What we get instead is the ball of mysteries called Einhart Stratos dropped quite hard, Corona's story (which was actually well done and sold Corona as more than a background character for me) introduced out of no-where, the introduction of Sieglinde Eremiah passing around like a drive by shooting of a character you could see could be very, very compelling if given proper focus and so on. Speaking of which, Lutecia Alpine's role in Vivid was also guilty of the Drive-by shooting treatment.

That being said, once the author committed himself to take the Nanoha-verse into the civilian setting and out of the military setting; it limited both the level of conflict escalation that could be had with his worldbuilding rules previously, as well as the stakes of the plot (which are slice of life levels of low). Not to mention the highest level of conflict escalation in the anime itself is Corona pushing herself against Einhart, which isn't actually the climax of the manga escalation for the "tournament arc", so the pacing issues really show up when the Vivid manga is adapted into anime.

Now, Vivid could have worked with its civilian premise, had the author more imagination about Mid-Childan society than simply replicating some version of Japan. A slice of life show in a different culture would have been fascinating, but scratch the surface of AR intelligence devices and magical battles, and you get a standard slice of life beneath it. Which is a shame. That being said, I do think Vivid Strike is a rectification of sorts, because we finally realize what kinds of people can potentially emerge in a society where magical talent is very much innate on some levels, and inheritable.

It makes me wonder how different Vivid would have been, had Vivio been a cadet in a TSAB military school that held some of the most promising mage cadets in Mid-Childa between the ages of 10-15. I fear however, that such a premise would be criticized as an unimaginative replication of Strikers S, even if we did get more beam-spam and life or death stakes. But it would have made it easier to explore some themes in Vivid that were raised and then ignored - such as Vivio's wish to be able to stand besides Nanoha, or Einhart's quest for strength - strength to protect her world where her ancestor failed to protect his. Or the realization Einhart made when she was told about what it means to protect others by putting your life in the line, when she saw the TSAB members train in Lutecia's resort.

[RDNexus]

I also had this memory of Midchilda being more futurstic-like than what has been shown on ViVid and ViVid Strike... But, since my memory is far from great...
And, yep, both series' premise seems more soft than Nanoha's incidents. Makes me miss the franchise's original settings...

This episode sure was quite the blow. It all came crashing down at the exact same time. And that bloody ending... ouch. But they sure did deserve it.

[FlameSparkZ]

Originally Posted by xrick

I also had this memory of Midchilda being more futurstic-like than what has been shown on ViVid and ViVid Strike... But, since my memory is far from great...
And, yep, both series' premise seems more soft than Nanoha's incidents. Makes me miss the franchise's original settings...

This episode sure was quite the blow. It all came crashing down at the exact same time. And that bloody ending... ouch. But they sure did deserve it.

Chances are that the Capital (Cranagan, shown in StrikerS) might be the most futuristic place in Midchilda...and even that city had convenient deserted areas for the fights

And let's not forget the Belkan Self-Governed Area, which IIRC is also in Midchilda. So it's safe to say that some areas are more developed than others.

[RDNexus]

May be so, it's been years since last I've seen StrikerS

[FlareKnight]

Nothing seems too strange from what I remember of StrikerS. They were still driving cars in that show (Fate had a nice one), using helicopters, and living in relatively normal looking buildings. Even got to see a brief school scene at the end with Vivio. They do have some crazy stuff like space ships, but can understand the creators wanting to use what they can from modern times. A lot easier to mostly copy our society than try to imagine and draw a futuristic society.

[RDNexus]

Laziness at it's best...
And here I am trying to work on a futuristic-looking society for my novel series.

So saddening...

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by xrick

Laziness at it's best...
And here I am trying to work on a futuristic-looking society for my novel series.

So saddening...

Good for you?

Some people care more about the setting above everything else. Some people want to tell a good story and focus on the characters first. A different world doesn't require a radically different society. The magic and technology they gained on Midchilda specifically may have simply allowed their society to stabilize. A lot of that tech and power is out of the reach of the regular individual so it wouldn't change their lives dramatically if some people are acting as space cops. A lot of stories get too caught up in trying to be futuristic or different and lose focus on what the story itself is supposed to be. Kids still need to go to school so they'll still go to school. You still need people to produce and purchase products. There is future tech in these episodes, but not beyond what the society actually needs to function. I think a society that went through the kind of history that Mid has gone through would seek as much stability as it could get.

Not sure I'd call that lazy.

[RDNexus]

And isn't it possible to focus on all fronts? Does one side have to suffer for the others?
A good story would have a good setting, good characters and good plot. Is it wrong?

[vic-vic]

Well, actually Mid-Childa are lucky too look like that, considering that less than centry ago the Dimensional Sea was racked by a cataclysmic war, where WMD and powerful spells were used indiscriminatelly. Just think about 1st and 2nd Succession Wars from the Battletech.

[FlameSparkZ]

Originally Posted by vic-vic

Well, actually Mid-Childa are lucky too look like that, considering that less than centry ago the Dimensional Sea was racked by a cataclysmic war, where WMD and powerful spells were used indiscriminatelly. Just think about 1st and 2nd Succession Wars from the Battletech.

And let's not forget what happened to Al-Hazard and Belka
One became so advanced that it destroyed itself through unknown means, the other had genetically modified kings fighting over supremacy, which ended up destroying their world...leaving only a handful of survivors.

Midchilda almost went down the same road, but managed to avoid it...and is now maintaining its status quo as a stable society using clean energy (magic).

[DKN117]

I'm really wondering if Fuuka even can reach out to what Rinne has become now. It's like she's become a completely different person - to Fuuka, it must be like the 'Rinne' she knew is dead and gone.

...And since I've been listening to some of my music while reading up on this stuff, now I'm thinking of Disturbed's "Who" as fitting for a 'message' from Fuu to Rin...

[Rising Dragon]

Oh, there's already a method for Fuuka to get through to her. It worked well enough for Vivio, after all.

[CrowKenobi]

The latest tangent has been moved to the faniction thread where it's a little more on-topic than here.

[RDNexus]

Thanks, I didn't know there was such a topic

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by DKN117

I'm really wondering if Fuuka even can reach out to what Rinne has become now. It's like she's become a completely different person - to Fuuka, it must be like the 'Rinne' she knew is dead and gone.

Eh, nothing a good befriending can't solve. Well, maybe two befriendings - her coach's a bad influence.

Originally Posted by novalysis

That being said, once the author committed himself to take the Nanoha-verse into the civilian setting and out of the military setting; it limited both the level of conflict escalation that could be had with his worldbuilding rules previously, as well as the stakes of the plot (which are slice of life levels of low).

Yes, that's what I'd consider an unsolvable problem for Vivid. Nanoha started with magical girls fighting for things that mattered. Even if it was just to keep Jewel Seeds from being dangerous. So seeing little girls fight for nothing more than fun and pride was always going to be underwhelming. And hearing Einhart lament the lack of need for her strength was just jarring.

Not to mention the highest level of conflict escalation in the anime itself is Corona pushing herself against Einhart, which isn't actually the climax of the manga escalation for the "tournament arc", so the pacing issues really show up when the Vivid manga is adapted into anime.

Now, Vivid could have worked with its civilian premise, had the author more imagination about Mid-Childan society than simply replicating some version of Japan. A slice of life show in a different culture would have been fascinating, but scratch the surface of AR intelligence devices and magical battles, and you get a standard slice of life beneath it.

I agree. It could have been nice. Even without fighting.

[TYxTxYT]

Originally Posted by vic-vic

Well, actually Mid-Childa are lucky too look like that, considering that less than centry ago the Dimensional Sea was racked by a cataclysmic war, where WMD and powerful spells were used indiscriminatelly. Just think about 1st and 2nd Succession Wars from the Battletech.

Nukes, nukes everywhere.

[novalysis]

Originally Posted by TYxTxYT

Nukes, nukes everywhere.

The idea that a mere century passed between the Saint Kaiser time and the present time of the Nanohaverse feels absolutely strange to me. How is it in just a century, there is uncertainty whether Claus Ingvalt and Olive lived in the same time?

Unless of course, the confusion arises because one of Einhart's later ancestors and Claus descendant inherited Claus memories, and much of his personality, and was prominent in the foundation of the TSAB itself and securing the loyalty of Belkans to the new TSAB pseudo-republican state. If that's the case, that hypothetical "later" Claus II could have been confused with the first Claus who knew Olive personally.

Or perhaps the Brains have been deliberately tampering with historical records.....

Because if the Brains are the founders of the TSAB, then they were likely at least children if not fully adults during the time of Olive and Claus prominence in Dimensional History, if a mere 20 years elapses between the death of Olive and the foundation of the TSAB. At this rate, this feels as if this is heading to a "Claus is actually one of the high council brains" theory, except that according to Einhart, Claus did not long survive the death of Olive.

Also, the one century separates Olive from Vivio idea makes the flashbacks of Vivid where melee weapons and crossbows were used look ridiculous, and infact, contradictory to world building in earlier seasons where we are told that mass based weaponry in the Belkan wars was why Mass based weaponry is taboo in the TSAB civilization.

Edit: Found the quote that led to the one century idea. It's in the Nanoha Vivid manga, chapter 6, page 13. There, Einhart mentions "the hundred year regret is pent up inside of me." Unless there was a mis-translation of "the hundreds of years of regret" into "the hundred year regret", this seems to confirm Olive predates the TSAB by a mere 20 years.

I won't be surprise that Vivid Strike might be a soft-reset, because 7arcs writers realized that Vivid dug a problematic hole into the world-building of the Nanoha-verse and decided to shift the franchise over to a new protagonist to start on a fresher slate.

[vic-vic]

To be fair, it's Vivid-manga artist/co-author Fukima Takuya's fault. Since his show of the ancient belka contradict not only Strikers but also Force. So, I think 7Arcs just call it an imprefect genetic memory/flawed record

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by novalysis

The idea that a mere century passed between the Saint Kaiser time and the present time of the Nanohaverse feels absolutely strange to me. How is it in just a century, there is uncertainty whether Claus Ingvalt and Olive lived in the same time?

Unless of course, the confusion arises because one of Einhart's later ancestors and Claus descendant inherited Claus memories, and much of his personality, and was prominent in the foundation of the TSAB itself and securing the loyalty of Belkans to the new TSAB pseudo-republican state. If that's the case, that hypothetical "later" Claus II could have been confused with the first Claus who knew Olive personally.

Or perhaps the Brains have been deliberately tampering with historical records.....

Because if the Brains are the founders of the TSAB, then they were likely at least children if not fully adults during the time of Olive and Claus prominence in Dimensional History, if a mere 20 years elapses between the death of Olive and the foundation of the TSAB. At this rate, this feels as if this is heading to a "Claus is actually one of the high council brains" theory, except that according to Einhart, Claus did not long survive the death of Olive.

Also, the one century separates Olive from Vivio idea makes the flashbacks of Vivid where melee weapons and crossbows were used look ridiculous, and infact, contradictory to world building in earlier seasons where we are told that mass based weaponry in the Belkan wars was why Mass based weaponry is taboo in the TSAB civilization.

Edit: Found the quote that led to the one century idea. It's in the Nanoha Vivid manga, chapter 6, page 13. There, Einhart mentions "the hundred year regret is pent up inside of me." Unless there was a mis-translation of "the hundreds of years of regret" into "the hundred year regret", this seems to confirm Olive predates the TSAB by a mere 20 years.

I won't be surprise that Vivid Strike might be a soft-reset, because 7arcs writers realized that Vivid dug a problematic hole into the world-building of the Nanoha-verse and decided to shift the franchise over to a new protagonist to start on a fresher slate.

And yet during the Einhart vs Corona match, Einhart describes countering Corona's automated body manipulation as a challenge continuing from a match 600 years ago. Even that seemed like a short time to me, but it's more believable than a mere 100 years.