Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[S.Freedom]

Originally Posted by monster

They probably built it before the treaty was finalized.

That still doesn't explain WHY they would develop a mirage colloid stealth system in the first place. As the Rouge's intended pilot (Cagalli) isn't the type to use "underhanded" methods like stealth tech in a fight.

It comes off more as a throw it on item like Aquaman said then something Cagalli or Kira would ever use.

[monster]

Originally Posted by S.Freedom

That still doesn't explain WHY they would develop a mirage colloid stealth system in the first place. As the Rouge's intended pilot (Cagalli) isn't the type to use "underhanded" methods like stealth tech in a fight.

It comes off more as a throw it on item like Aquaman said then something Cagalli or Kira would ever use.

Who's to say that Cagalli will not use such a system? The Strike Rouge was, after all, Cagalli's first mobile suit. It's a valid defense mechanism, just like the Akatsuki's reflective armor. And I'm sure the engineers probably think you can't have too many defensive capabilities to ensure the survival of the Princess of Orb.

Also, setting a trap like she did in Africa was also an underhanded method. Cagalli is not some kind of fairy tail knight who champions honorable fights.

[The American Average]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

I agree it seems needlessly thrown in however. They're making the Rouge look TOO impressive and powerful. It's supposed to be an only barely not obsolete machine that's going to be abandoned soon in the fact of the later half Destiny units.

And it's never gonna use half these weapons anyway.

after hearing all this awesome stuff on the Rogue, makes me really wish they'd actually show it animated, but i know they'll never do that in the HD remaster. Even though i do have my fingers crossed for Berlin battle and kira using it. I guess I'll have to wait to see it in one of those SD G Gen games or something.


EDIT: with the Strike Rogue got this great upgrade do you think the Akatsuki will get some kind of upgrade? It seems the Ootori is overall better than the Akatsuki right now, apart from the beam reflection. I'd like to see it upgraded, I love the Akatsuki.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by S.Freedom

That still doesn't explain WHY they would develop a mirage colloid stealth system in the first place. As the Rouge's intended pilot (Cagalli) isn't the type to use "underhanded" methods like stealth tech in a fight.

It comes off more as a throw it on item like Aquaman said then something Cagalli or Kira would ever use.

ORB will use underhanded tactics in actual combat BECAUSE of its status as a neutral nation, as they'll need the advantage over their numerically superior Alliance opponents.

Keep in mind that the Akatsuki's reflection technology could also be considered "underhanded". And then there's the Astray Gold Frame Amatu, which also utilizes Mirage Colloid, and is also an ORB-developed weapon.

In war, you can't be held back by concepts such as chivalry. It only puts you at a disadvantage, honorable or not.

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by The American Average

after hearing all this awesome stuff on the Rogue, makes me really wish they'd actually show it animated, but i know they'll never do that in the HD remaster. Even though i do have my fingers crossed for Berlin battle and kira using it. I guess I'll have to wait to see it in one of those SD G Gen games or something.


EDIT: with the Strike Rogue got this great upgrade do you think the Akatsuki will get some kind of upgrade? It seems the Ootori is overall better than the Akatsuki right now, apart from the beam reflection. I'd like to see it upgraded, I love the Akatsuki.

Nah the Akatsuki is fine the way it is :P

[Aquaman OS]

Akatsuki shouldn't have all those easily explodable parts hanging all over it's beam refective armor. Hit the missile launchers or the rail gun and it blows a chunk of the suit off.

Rouge can handle it because of PS, but Akatsuki doesn't have that. So better to keep its external weaponry to a minimum and rely on it being invulnerable to most beam weapons.

It's not like rail guns are that useful (unless you're Kira and like having a way to non lethally deal with PS protected Gundams). Why bother with PS penetrating railguns when you've got beam cannons anyway.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by amaterasu4

Even the wikia refers to the conflicts as Bloody Valentine War and Second Bloody Valentine War. I wonder where they got those names.

Someone made them up at one point and no one bothered to changed it.

And actually, the Wikia articles all used to be in Wikipedia back in the days... At some point the Wiki editors decided that it was too indepth for Wikipedia and deleted all those articles from there, and moved them all to Wikia. That's why those (fake) names are on both sites.

(God I feel old)

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

Akatsuki shouldn't have all those easily explodable parts hanging all over it's beam refective armor. Hit the missile launchers or the rail gun and it blows a chunk of the suit off.

Rouge can handle it because of PS, but Akatsuki doesn't have that. So better to keep its external weaponry to a minimum and rely on it being invulnerable to most beam weapons.

It's not like rail guns are that useful (unless you're Kira and like having a way to non lethally deal with PS protected Gundams). Why bother with PS penetrating railguns when you've got beam cannons anyway.

Probably requires less energy overall to utilize a railgun than it is to utilize a plasma cannon.

Also, why would hitting the railgun cause that kind of structural damage? It's not terribly explosive, unlike the missile launcher. Unless it's got explosive-tipped rounds, which is a terrible, terrible idea altogether.

[The American Average]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

Akatsuki shouldn't have all those easily explodable parts hanging all over it's beam refective armor. Hit the missile launchers or the rail gun and it blows a chunk of the suit off.

Rouge can handle it because of PS, but Akatsuki doesn't have that. So better to keep its external weaponry to a minimum and rely on it being invulnerable to most beam weapons.

It's not like rail guns are that useful (unless you're Kira and like having a way to non lethally deal with PS protected Gundams). Why bother with PS penetrating railguns when you've got beam cannons anyway.

i was more thinking anti ship sword, extra guns, new beam rifle, stuff like that, heck maybe add something to the Yata-no-Kagami where beam sabres can't hurt it or something (that always bugged me =p). i just think it'd be cool if it got a little upgrade. it seems the Ootori was made in Seed like the Akatsuki and yet the Akatsuki has less stuff on it than the ootori. maybe they can finally tell us if Cagalli can actually use the Shiranui pack as well, i'd like some official confirmation on that even though it doesn't matter.

but skye said it pretty well

Originally Posted by Skye629

Nah the Akatsuki is fine the way it is :P

[Kuroi Hadou]

Originally Posted by The American Average

heck maybe add something to the Yata-no-Kagami where beam sabres can't hurt it or something (that always bugged me =p)

So... you want a completely unkillable MS?

[Rising Dragon]

Let's not go there. We already have the Strike Freedom, how much more unkillable do you want?

[The American Average]

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

So... you want a completely unkillable MS?

Well i always found it weird that it could bounce off any beam shot but not beam sabres. it doesn't have to be impervious to beam sabres but completely useless against them... little silly. But I doubt the Akatsuki will get any kind of upgrade for the HD Remaster. Since the Rogue doesn't do much in Destiny so not a lot of new film is needed, while the Akatsuki does do stuff on earth and in space giving it new weapons/packs would require effort and this remaster has shown much of that.

[Kuroi Hadou]

Originally Posted by The American Average

Well i always found it weird that it could bounce off any beam shot but not beam sabres. it doesn't have to be impervious to beam sabres but completely useless against them... little silly.

Eh, not really. Even if the Akatsuki is immune to the beam particles (it's killing me to say this, BTW...), that doesn't mean the reflection system is resilient against the heat of the EM field containing it.

[Aquaman OS]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Also, why would hitting the railgun cause that kind of structural damage? It's not terribly explosive, unlike the missile launcher. Unless it's got explosive-tipped rounds, which is a terrible, terrible idea altogether.

It would still cause damage to the non PS protected Akatsuki by exploding on it. And unlike a beam rifle it couldn't be tossed clear before it exploded. Akatsuki's external weapons should probably be kept a minimal to avoid risk of minor damage from being hit like that.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

It would still cause damage to the non PS protected Akatsuki by exploding on it. And unlike a beam rifle it couldn't be tossed clear before it exploded. Akatsuki's external weapons should probably be kept a minimal to avoid risk of minor damage from being hit like that.

It'd be superficial at most, honestly. There's not many explosive components to a railgun, unlike all of the munitions in a missile launcher. The loss of a railgun wouldn't result in the "Oh god my side is gone" kind of damage a loaded missile launcher's detonation could cause.

[The American Average]

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

Eh, not really. Even if the Akatsuki is immune to the beam particles (it's killing me to say this, BTW...), that doesn't mean the reflection system is resilient against the heat of the EM field containing it.

i really don't see how heat from a beam sabre would be any different from the heat off a beam shot. i mean the only scene we see the Akatsuki get hit by a beam sabre is a beam boomerang. why wouldn't beam slide off the arm? now using the Anti-Ship Sword yeah i can see why but little beam boomerangs....

[Rising Dragon]

Because of the way the beam is utilized. The beam coating the Akatsuki uses is made of up millions of tiny mirrors whose beam reflections are calculated and redirected. The more fluid swathe of energy created by beam blades wouldn't be able to be redirected in the same manner.

EDIT: Also, the melee susceptibility has never truly been clarified--the only time it got hit was by that beam boomerang, and it struck the machine in the elbow joint, which may not have been properly protected. At no other point in the series was the Akatsuki struck with a melee beam weapon.

[The American Average]

it may not be able to redirect the the beam on the beam sabre, but to be completely useless and gets chopped up seems weird to me.

[Kuroi Hadou]

Originally Posted by The American Average

it may not be able to redirect the the beam on the beam sabre, but to be completely useless and gets chopped up seems weird to me.

There's not much to reflect. Since the beginning of UC, beam sabers in Gundam have been beam particles contained by an EM field. When the saber comes into contact with a physical material, the EM field is disrupted and the particles start spilling out in that specific area. That EM field still contains the vast majority of the beam, and any particles reflected away from the armor would still just go right back into the beam body.

[monster]

Originally Posted by The American Average

Well i always found it weird that it could bounce off any beam shot but not beam sabres.

Actually, is there confirmation on this? Rewatching the episode, it seems Shinn cut the Akatsuki's shield in half with the Destiny's sword and then cut off Akatsuki's left arm at the joint with Destiny's boomerang. So they didn't really show what would happen if a beam saber had hit the Akatsuki's armor.