[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni Chiru - Ep. 7 Requiem of the golden witch

[Renall]

Originally Posted by chounokoe

Basically there is no coherent reason to commit any of the murders. ... Including the fact that nobody ever leaves the mansion grounds or goes into the woods, it would be madness to endanger the plan by committing open and visible murders.
Therefore of course the one committing these murders must be someone who does not know about the existence of a bomb or he does not know about the fact that somebody else knows about it and turned it on.

I agree, but that leads us to an immediate and entirely logical conclusion:

• In the Yasu story, the bomb is shown to be triggered in the gold room.
• Yasu learns that the explosives are wired and how they can be triggered, and Genji seems to know how often Kinzo considered blowing everything up himself.
• Therefore, Yasu knows where the trigger is and knows that it CAN be set.
• The bomb is set.
• Therefore either Yasu set it, or someone else set it.

If Yasu is aware of the bomb's existence and that it was set, taking any action as a culprit makes no sense. If she's aware of its existence but not that it was set, that means the culprit solves the epitaph, every time, and somehow knows about the hidden trigger. If Yasu is not aware of the bomb's existence, that part of the Claire story and the Tea Party are lies.

Any way you slice it, we have a problem. If she knows and didn't set it and is the culprit, she's killing everyone for theatrics when a bomb would do just as well. If she knows and did set it, killing is too risky. If she doesn't know, the story is wrong. There's a way out of that, but it forces us to reconcile either that the bomb can be triggered in another way or the true culprit also has access to the gold room and sets the bomb him or herself every time we reach Oct. 5, but never sooner than that (or it would explode on the 4th/5th instead of the 5th/6th).

In most of these cases, Yasu is innocent. Mostly.

She mentions to Rudolph that those guns are pretty old and hard to handle and sometimes they don't produce the results they are supposed to do, at least that's what I remember.
This ties in with the guns sometimes going off when only slightly touching the trigger and sometimes just not working properly at all, but the events also showed that Kyrie is not that good at shooting.
I have a hard time to believe that someone who manages to fail shooting Jessica from behind AND fails to kill Eva 2(!) times, is able to shoot and hit from a considerable distance, as the culprit in Episode 1 for example did with Natsuhi.

I find this troubling in general because if the guns are unreliable, all this supposed precision shooting is extremely unlikely. Either the killer isn't using a gun, is using a different gun, or isn't just shooting people without somehow first incapacitating them... but then you have Natsuhi, who seems at first blush to have been shot at a decent enough distance with a high degree of accuracy.

Yet both Rudolf and Kyrie have trouble bringing George and Jessica down with their guns, and Kyrie manages to wing Eva twice. Even if Kanon is trained, if the guns aren't very reliable it isn't going to matter.

One prospect, I suppose, is that all the guns are intentionally sighted incorrectly, and Kanon (or Yasu or "the culprit" or whoever you want to pretend it is) has trained himself to use the guns with the misplaced adjustment. But that's barely foreshadowed in any way; Rudolf's complaint is the first time the guns are said to be off-sighted.

[Raneh]

Originally Posted by Renall

Ep1 First Twilight: Someone is alive among the corpses. This is a fine enough solution. But how do they get out? Ideas like First Twilight Fakery are thrown about, but I'm not sold. An accomplice fixes this easily, but who has the opportunity?

It's been a while since I've read it and I can't check it now but isn't there a window in the garden shed? It was shown in ep4 when Battler found Gohda and Kumasawa's corpses there and at least I don't remember them locking and seeing anything but the main door in ep1.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by Oliver

Notice that the issue Will is arguing against is not the Kyrie Rampage in Rokkenjima-Prime, but the Kyrie Rampage in Leon's world, as it is his priority to save Leon and declare that his murder never happened. In that world there is only one culprit and the rule does not apply, so he might not be using it.

He could have tried to have her repeat in Red several things. I mean, Bern's Red is highly questionable since it was stopped midway by Ange's scream, and well, if you try to back-log, it's simply not there. So, I think a mixture of having her repeat certain things in Red along with the use of some of Dine's rules could have allowed Will to put up a battle.

As for the events in Lyon's world, yes, that could have been a lie, or things could have been different. At this point, it's hard to say.

Anyway, as for Dine's 12th... Kyrie was no mastermind. I mean, she definitely was a killer, but none of these things seemed to have been planned by her, she simply went along with the flow of things. As far as the 12th is concerned, this game hasn't really done anything wrong, since, whether she killed people or not, you could still say the mastermind is still Yasu - of course, that's how it'd seem to be now; it may have been someone else.

[chounokoe]

Originally Posted by Will Wright

But what in the holy name of Father Brown would Bern's counter to "there is only one culprit" be when she just showed that cluster of murders?

"Only one mastermind, that's what the rule means"?

Yes, the rule specificially mentions that there may be co-plotters there just needs to be a single black nature. In the Tea Party example you can easily concentrate that part on Kyrie, as Rudolph is clearly designed to be her 'mindless helper', as she even says that she was controlling him through a child.
That rule would have been much to easy to go around.

Dine's rules are just a bit too exact and restricting to actually be used in Umineko's context, therefore I'm still reluctant to really want them to count.

It's been a while since I've read it and I can't check it now but isn't there a window in the garden shed? It was shown in ep4 when Battler found Gohda and Kumasawa's corpses there and at least I don't remember them locking and seeing anything but the main door in ep1.

There is a small window, but it is described just big enough to fit your head through, nothing more. It is impossible as an escape route and could be used only to pass objects in and out of that room.

And @Renall: Concerning the bomb business.
We have to distinguish between the solution we seek for each individual Episode and that which we seek for THE truth.
If we are searching for the truth there are some other things we also have to take into consideration.
- There IS an explosion.
- Eva survived the incident.
- Eva being in Kuwadorian after the incident is only possible if she knew both about the tunnel and the bomb.
This means that we also have to take into consideration that in the real truth Eva does get to the Gold Room. So we have to assume that there is a certain truth to Episode 7's Tea Party.

[zRyuu]

Originally Posted by Renall

Ep1 First Twilight: Someone is alive among the corpses. This is a fine enough solution. But how do they get out? Ideas like First Twilight Fakery are thrown about, but I'm not sold. An accomplice fixes this easily, but who has the opportunity?

Natsuhi had the time while she was getting her gun.

Originally Posted by Renall

I agree, but that leads us to an immediate and entirely logical conclusion:

• In the Yasu story, the bomb is shown to be triggered in the gold room.
• Yasu learns that the explosives are wired and how they can be triggered, and Genji seems to know how often Kinzo considered blowing everything up himself.
• Therefore, Yasu knows where the trigger is and knows that it CAN be set.
• The bomb is set.
• Therefore either Yasu set it, or someone else set it.

If Yasu is aware of the bomb's existence and that it was set, taking any action as a culprit makes no sense. If she's aware of its existence but not that it was set, that means the culprit solves the epitaph, every time, and somehow knows about the hidden trigger. If Yasu is not aware of the bomb's existence, that part of the Claire story and the Tea Party are lies.

Any way you slice it, we have a problem. If she knows and didn't set it and is the culprit, she's killing everyone for theatrics when a bomb would do just as well. If she knows and did set it, killing is too risky. If she doesn't know, the story is wrong. There's a way out of that, but it forces us to reconcile either that the bomb can be triggered in another way or the true culprit also has access to the gold room and sets the bomb him or herself every time we reach Oct. 5, but never sooner than that (or it would explode on the 4th/5th instead of the 5th/6th).

In most of these cases, Yasu is innocent.

What about Yasu activating the bomb for the whole purpose of not letting the culprit get away with it.

[Renall]

Originally Posted by zRyuu

What about Yasu activating the bomb for the whole purpose of not letting the culprit get away with it.

Possible, if she thought there was no other way. However, due to the cat box, wouldn't you say that he or she did get away with it?

Plus if the culprit finds out about Kuwadorian, you just ruined everything.

[Will Wright]

Originally Posted by chounokoe

Yes, the rule specificially mentions that there may be co-plotters there just needs to be a single black nature. In the Tea Party example you can easily concentrate that part on Kyrie, as Rudolph is clearly designed to be her 'mindless helper', as she even says that she was controlling him through a child.
That rule would have been much to easy to go around.

Dine's rules are just a bit too exact and restricting to actually be used in Umineko's context, therefore I'm still reluctant to really want them to count.

I know the rule mentions that an accomplice is allowed. I still think however that the Kyrie culprit theory is impossible if she is the only one doing the killing.

Also I really need to improve my Japanese. I got the entire Kyrie argument wrong. Now with a dictionary in hand, this is easier.

I wonder if Ryuukishi did the right thing by bringing Dine into the mix. I have a feeling it wasn't his original plan, and the rules will end up severely underused. He just did it because the Dine rules showing up at some point were probably speculated a lot(I just caught up with the series, so I wouldn't know.)

Even as a die hard Golden Age fan, I don't expect all mysteries to follow Dine. It is way too restrictive. But if Ryuukishi really manages to make Umineko appear this flexible despite being bound by Dine chains the whole time, I will have to tip my hat off to him.

[Renall]

I kind of wonder if Wright wasn't meant to appear earlier still; there's the whole LIG reference issue, though when he did finally appear he was named WIL in the code. Who, if anyone, LIG was supposed to be is still unknown, but it seems like there was an idea that got discarded at some early point.

[theacefrehley]

Just my stupid one week late rambling...

Spoiler:

Didn't read all posts of this thread, so I might be mising some things.

First, it was a really nice ride this episode. The whole WWII conspiracy with young Kinzo and italian submarines was great. It didn't even look mystery.
It was like a james bond movie, whatever

As for the origin of the gold and the identities of Beatrices 1st and 2nd, it was roughly what I had imagined.
In fact, before EP7, I was thinking Beatrice was some kind of international thief, and somehow got romantically involved with Kinzo while trying to hide the gold she stole. As for the baby of 19 years ago, I was thinking that maybe Krauss was the father. Quite a shock that Kinzo was the father too.

As for YASU's life story, I didn't get it too well, perhaps...
To me, it went like this: In 1976, there was a person that might or not have been called Shannon. It is said that 1976-Shannon was Yasu's only friend at Fukuin house. This might be a hint towards Shannon-Kanon real background.

After YASU got the gist of the work at the mansion, got interested in mysteries and then, after succesfully playing elaborate pranks, decides to quit being a servant. This part must be twisted. It was 1976-Shannon who decided to quit, and then, all alone, YASU decided to go deeper with his/her imaginary friends and created Kureru. That's what I think. Or maybe 1976-Shannon was an imaginary person the whole time


An interesting point too is when Kureru 'gives' Shannon a younger brother.
Say what you want. I still don't swallow Shannon=Kanon at all.

At that point in time, the portrait and the epitaph were still not there. 'Beatrice' was still far from solving riddle and thus become the real Head of the family, in Genji's, Nanjo's and Kumasawa's eyes (which would give her confidence to ask things to them).

A fake boy servant play would necessarily need Genji's collaboration and permission. I don't see how Shannon would be brave enough to simply ask Genji to play along with her farce. Let alone fool Genji playing two roles.

To me, by chance, a boy came, she put in her head that Kureru 'gave' him to her, and all that 'had a good friendship from Fukuin old times' setting is just Kanon playing along with Shannon's delusions. Kanon being under direct control of Kinzo, maybe, was just Genji's trying to give a close friend to Shannon.


And Rudolf saying to Kyrie to not say Battler is not her kid, if they managed to leave the island the three together, pretty much settles the 'mystery' regarding Battler's birth. I guess...

I remember being mocked back when EP3 was released because of this. Take that

Lastly, tea party was very entertaining, but I simply can't buy Rudolf and Kyrie being like that. As Wiru said, no clues presented.
Can't say much about it, though.

And, as always, I'm still lost with many closed rooms, even now


Wiru and Rion were great. Loved them. Obviously, looking forward to EP8, hoping they com back, and also hoping for a happy end (hard to not wish it after so many years following this tale).

Don't know if I should rank the Episodes, but here is my rank as of now:

EP4 > EP3 > EP7 > EP1 > EP5 > EP6 > EP2.

Which doesn' mean I dislike any of them at all.

All in all, the main point of EP7 was to give a contrast to how a far behind event affecte the world of 1986, and say clearly what it was.

Originally Posted by Renall

Why did she need four guns to kill seven people? That doesn't even begin to make sense. Let alone keeping them there. "Oh hey, here's the guns I was going to use to murder you if you didn't solve the epitaph, but you did. Good work! Have a free gun. Don't do anything baaaad with iiiiiit!"

It's like that was put there as an excuse to give everyone guns in the first place. C'mon, Bern, can't you do better than that?

Just my 2 cents.
By this moment, after all that drama with Battler+Shannon, Beatrice ('whoever' is playing her role) was already resigned to die if she lost in her own game. Offer guns to dangerous greedy adults by now, is no big deal. She was giving up everything she had anyway. It's just that we are not shown for sure why she didn't care about her life so badly if she lost the game (Or maybe I just didn't notice, which would be no surprise ).
The idea of the 'Beatrice' at this scene being just a piece of paper with 'congratulations' written and some written explanations don't seem bad, though

Just a quote:
……魔女はベッド脇のテーブルへ歩み寄る。
そこで初めて一同は、テーブルの上に何が置かれていたかに気付いた。
それは、４丁ものライフル銃だった。弾が詰められたケースも置かれている……。
魔女はテーブルの上に転がる鉛弾の一つを指で弄りながら、表情ひとつ変えずに告げた。

「もし。皆さんが碑文の謎を解けずに今夜を終えたなら。……私は碑文に従い、１３人を殺す殺人事件を起こす つもりでした。」

Originally Posted by Rias

The real reason of the disaster, mainly due to the trigger of the challenge to the family, isn't fully explained in ep7. We know that it has something to do with Battler's sin, of forgetting his "promise", and his return right on the 6th year. The only thing I can kind of speculate is George's proposal at the same timing of Battler's return, which seems to trigger something.

It's interesting that they also say that had come 1 year earlier or 1 year later, things could still have happened, but in a considerably smaller scalle.

Originally Posted by Rias

That's also something that bugged me. I was looking out for that from the start of Claire's narration, and it only happened once. It was after the key-checking scene, if I recall correctly. Every other time before that, the other servants don't seem to be talking/responding to Shannon at all.

There's also the fact that YASU hates being called like that. He/she would rather be called by his Fukuin alias. It could suggest that 1976-Shannon was only an imaginary person.
My guess is that it was some kind of red herring. Maybe there really was some person there who YASU admired (by the name of shannon or not). The twist was when YASU becomes a 'witch' and abandon 1976-Shannon. It might mean that sempai was just going away. Again. Just my 2 cents.

Originally Posted by Kite22

Well in the Sea of Kakera their maybe a world where Kyrie and Rudolf resent everyone, after all Bern takes the smallest possibility and turns it into a reality for her own amusement. They may only have a 0.00001% chance of happening but that's all she needs.

Originally Posted by Oliver

Notice that this still requires for Bernkastel to break the starting condition boundaries commonly believed to be imposed on Beatrice's game.

After all, they don't just have to start hating everybody now, they need to have always hated everyone.

To me, the Ushiromiyas always hated each other to death since forever.

Originally Posted by Renall

Heck, take out "Beatrice" and the Tea Party could just as well play out the same way. Epitaph solved, adults flip out, Kyrie and Rudolf go gangsta on everybody. What part of this required Shkanon? What part of this was caused by Battler's sin? There is a clear and gaping divide between this supposed "answer," the answers Will gives in the main story, and the setup leading up to the end of the main story.

What's going on here? Things are not reconciled, not even slightly.

Let me try a bit.
How about:
Battler's sin+Battler coming back in 1986 --> Letter proposing the riddle --> Adults trying to solve it -> Find the gold... and so on...

Battler's sin would be a requirement. Just a guess, though.

Originally Posted by Ssol

I pretty much agree with everything Klashikari has said so far. I think most people won't throw away episode 7 just because the game master is Bernkastel.

I'm not sure about the source. I was the first person on this board to translate the theory and I got it from this site:
http://tool-4.net/?id=umineko&pn=17

I don't know who made that theory but they deserve a a pat on the back.

Didn't know it existed...

Originally Posted by DgBarca

If you pronouce "quadrillion" in Japanease syle you get Kuwadorian...but
If you pronouce "trillion"...you will get...toraian...the guesthouse...
What if you prounouce "billion" ? It's probably the name of the mansion, who knows.

Birian ? maybe ?

I wonder why I never realize these things... stupid me

Originally Posted by Oliver

I still don't get why Kyrie starts murdering everyone.

The island will blow up in 24 hours. There is very little chance anyone will wander off outside the 1km blast radius during that time -- the only way that can possibly happen is if someone knows about the tunnels already. The most practical solution, therefore, would be to call, in particular, Battler somewhere, knock him out with a blow on the head, and hole up in the gold storage room, barricading it from inside - say, with that four-poster bed, or maybe, anything found inside the tunnels which are supposed to lead into the expansive military base. Just in case anyone else knows about the tunnels. When it blows up and Battler comes around, you can tell him a story how you heroically dragged him across the entire island, or something, he'll be an obedient son for the rest of his life. If you can cook up the story of heirship test to murder the cousins, you can cook up a story to convince Battler or keep him completely unaware.

Everyone on the surface will die on their own, why bother, risk resistance, dirty your hands? If you believe the bomb won't work, shooting anyone is absurd as evidence will not be concealed. If you believe the bomb will work, shooting anyone is pointless, as they die on their own anyway. I have advanced that argument before, and in the situation described in Ep7, it is eminently applicable, far more than in the usual unknown hypothetical that we are dealing with.

What's going on here?

Well, I bought Kyrie's explanation for this.

It was late at night between days 4 and 5. There would still be a whole day until the explosion. At that point in time, they don't know the radio and other means of comunication will fail the next day (I'm supposing it from previous EPs. Maybe in this scenario, the radio won't fail at all). Maybe they don't even know they'll be completely isolated there the next day.

Krauss and Natushi died. People will notice their absence the very next morning, for sure. Commotion. People contact the outside, the police. This can't be good.
A single contact from Rokkenjima saying things are strange there might cast suspicion on the survivors later on, and spoil the cover of the explosion.

Who knows, maybe everybody would be taken to the station to give some explanation that very October 5th (They don't know the conditions of the next day).

The plan was to kill everyone before they even know what is happening.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by theacefrehley

It was late at night between days 4 and 5. There would still be a whole day until the explosion. At that point in time, they don't know the radio and other means of comunication will fail the next day (I'm supposing it from previous EPs. Maybe in this scenario, the radio won't fail at all). Maybe they don't even know they'll be completely isolated there the next day.

Uhh...

1. Pull out antenna cable.
2. Push the transmit button, wait about a minute until you smell the magic smoke.
3. Plug the cable back in.
4. Profit.

Radio now appears working, but doesn't, and is impossible to repair without a specialist. And nobody knows why yelling into the radio produces no response, either.

Alternatively, lure everyone into a room, destroy the means to unlock it from inside, lock it from the outside. Make sure there is no phone inside.

I mean, come ooon, character who is portrayed as probably the smartest of the lot can't think of that, or numerous other safer ways to get everyone killed? Really?

[Renall]

That's really the problem. We're told Kyrie is smart; we're even shown she's smart in the Jessica fight in ep6, constructing a closed room to protect herself. And her solution is to shoot people? And not even double-tap Eva (and the others) to make damn sure she's dead?

[theacefrehley]

Originally Posted by Oliver

Uhh...

1. Pull out antenna cable.
2. Push the transmit button, wait about a minute until you smell the magic smoke.
3. Plug the cable back in.
4. Profit.

Radio now appears working, but doesn't, and is impossible to repair without a specialist. And nobody knows why yelling into the radio produces no response, either.

Alternatively, lure everyone into a room, destroy the means to unlock it from inside, lock it from the outside. Make sure there is no phone inside.

I mean, come ooon, character who is portrayed as probably the smartest of the lot can't think of that, or numerous other safer ways to get everyone killed? Really?

Well,
Didn't think of that

But I'll try to save my point anyway


But then you'd have to make sure ALL means of communication are destroyed.
If there's a secret mansion Kuwadorian, why not a secret radio? One that only Kumasawa or Genji know? Or 'Shannon'... Or Nanjo, too?
And what if it is somewhere in the study? Or even in Kuwadorian?

Whatever...





----
edit: Not that I think Kyrie's behaviour the most plausible, with that homicide spree. Certainly there might have been other solutions.
But killing everybody is an efficient one too!
Just a bunch of kids and some scattered servants. If no one notices what is happening with the others, it's an easy task with a shotgun and some skill.

[theacefrehley]

Just a random thought I had while reading you guys discussing about YASU turning gold into that 1 billion cashcard.

I don't undersand much about legal aspects of the issue, but would it make things easier for YASU if Kinzo's assets and fortune were not legally his. Like, you go check the documentation and stuff and everything is on, for example, Genji's name, instead of Kinzo's? Like some maneuver by Kinzo. (Or maybe Genji is actually pretty rich and is the one solving money issues for YASU , just kidding)

Does it make sense with Umineko world? Like the mess that made Krauss hide Kinzo's death (EP5)?

[Disz]

Originally Posted by musouka

It explains not only Kinzo's ranting, but also why Nanjo would say that he died at peace in EP5.
It explains why Shannon has been there for ten years when Natsuhi obviously doesn't view her as a proper playmate for Jessica.
It explains the formation of Beatrice and why she loves Battler.
It explains Battler's sin in the only way supported by the narrative with actual text to back it up.
It explains why some of the servants call themselves furniture, but not others.
It explains the challenge letters.
It explains Maria's relationship with Beatrice.
It explains a good chunk of Genji and Kumasawa's actions.
It explains where the meta characters came from and why they're named the way they are.
It explains the locked rooms.
It explains where the bottle letters came from.
It explains the emphasis on mystery novels.
It explains the man from nineteen years ago.
It explains the cryptic message about the nature of Beatrice in EP6, and why Shannon and Kanon agreed with it.

It explains a whole heck of a lot.

Sorry if I'm interrupting,but I didn't like much of this.

I mean,I think that Yasu makes a lot of sense,but that's just it.It just makes sense.That's all it does.Just because it makes sense,doesn't mean it's the all mighty truth,if you're following me.

You went quite into depth on how it doesn't make sense,but for you reasons why it does,you just made a list.

Could you please explain why you can say those statements with certainty?

[EndlessMugen]

I am not going to scour this thread to see if this was linked or not, http://gaslight.mtroyal.ab.ca/vandine.htm
It is simply the 20 wedges of fun unabridged.
If we examine the story in this light, and assuming Ryokishi has written in his true culprit in this manner, it is but simple deduction to anounce the killer and the "truth".

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by theacefrehley

Does it make sense with Umineko world? Like the mess that made Krauss hide Kinzo's death (EP5)?

Sort of, but not very. TLDR version is that if Genji is the actual owner by law, he can't do anything without Krauss' knowledge with it anyway.

Like I explained previously, Japanese inheritance law in 1986 prevents Kinzo from leaving anything to any single specific person, at least 50% will have to be distributed between his immediate children and their spouses if any survive. Letting the law handle the issue will also result in having to pay a 70% tax on the valuation of any property in Kinzo's name, and you have to pay it before you can sell anything. This is impossible to do even if the family finances are in good shape, as it is perfectly normal to have less liquid cash than property -- often, much less.

(As a side note, I have a roundabout confirmation that Ryukishi is aware of the legal considerations -- A certain Witch Hunter's interview tape mentions the Marusoo company chairman making the necessary arrangements when it appears he is heading for his death.)

Mind you, that doesn't include the metallic gold itself, which actually has to bypass the law entirely for other reasons.

So Kinzo has to pull one of a range of legal tricks if he wishes any specific singular person to have everything -- most of them are based on the concept of limited liability holding company which is the actual owner of the property in law, and is in turn owned by Kinzo, because that greatly simplifies the required paperwork, reducing all the various properties that need to be juggled to a single one. The magnitude of legal tricks required will nevertheless greatly increase if Kinzo wishes to leave everything to a single unspecified person who satisfies a certain condition after Kinzo himself is dead. Like solving the epitaph.

The most reasonable way to do this involves handing the ownership of the holding company to someone while Kinzo is still alive, while leaving the shares of the company in trust with Kinzo himself so that he keeps the use of them while he is alive. The moment Kinzo dies, ownership reverts to person he is effectively borrowing them from, bypassing inheritance law altogether, and that person can then be required by Kinzo to do as he wishes -- possibly, with a legal contract charging them to do so, though whether such a contract is legal to make in Japan depends on a lot of factors and only a specialist would be able to tell.

Which essentially means that at the moment Kinzo's death is registered, someone else owns everything instantly, if he wants to pass his wealth on at all, and if the trust mechanism is in use, that someone else has owned everything well before Kinzo actually died -- Kinzo just had the use of it.

This someone can, in theory, be Genji or Kumasawa. However, being the owner of the holding company does not necessarily mean controlling it directly -- in most jurisdictions, the powers of the company owners are limited to directing the policy of the CEO, appointing the CEO and dismissing the CEO, and maybe sitting on the board of directors if one exists, but most of the rest of activities require CEO's personal involvement. And that CEO is almost certainly Krauss, otherwise he simply can't embezzle Kinzo's funds. Which means it's impossible to siphon any money out of Kinzo's legally owned property without asking Krauss to do that, or without replacing him as CEO.

Mind you, that does not touch on the issue of gold at all. Gold is not a legally owned property, and would it become one, it would probably go under the laws governing buried treasure. I have so far failed to find the relevant Japanese laws, but my guess would be that when discovered, it would become the property of whoever owns Rokkenjima land itself.

It is possible for Beatrice herself to be that executor-owner, and there's red in Ep5 implying that she basically is, if the gold is owned by whoever owns the land according to the law. The first letter also makes far more sense if it is not considered a death threat, but a threat of keeping the entirety of the Ushiromiya properties to herself with gold and all, as she owns it anyway already.

[Renall]

This is also indirectly supported by the Krauss/Leon setup in that world as depicted in ep7. Krauss has the properties in holding for Leon and what is most likely happening there is that Kinzo is transferring the Ushiromiya holding companies to Leon with Krauss acting as CEO until Leon turns 20. So it's obvious that Kinzo and Krauss are aware of the proper way to manage company asset transfers when a clear head is known.

This also may explain Eva's need to sell Kinzo's books even though she supposedly had the gold (although it's very likely the gold was simply lost to her in the explosion, but if the bank card really exists then it's possible she still had that asset) and was the sole heir; as the heir in estate law terms, she was paying on 70% of everything she and her siblings owned, which also included considerable debts; if the bank card is real, she at least had that to soak the debts, but she'd be selling a lot of the family's property to stay afloat after taxes.

[TehChron]

Ok, sorry for the abrupt change in subject guys, but I'm curious as to how exactly the Yasu solution satisfies the "Who am I?" riddle at the end of Episode 4.

Thats something that really needs to be cleared in order to be certain of the correct answer, I believe.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by TehChron

Ok, sorry for the abrupt change in subject guys, but I'm curious as to how exactly the Yasu solution satisfies the "Who am I?" riddle at the end of Episode 4.

Yasu is the bomber, and thus kills Battler while already being dead.

As argued previously, Yasu who is both the bomber and the "culprit", that is, the one who commits the observed murders, is highly irrational and very hard to forgive, which Battler nevertheless does. Numerous reasons for Yasu to be the bomber without any intent to kill anyone except the "culprit" exist, as I also listed above. Some of them are actually good reasons.

[Used Can]

I've been wondering what Yasu's full name may be. Yasuda Sayo? Yasuda Yoshiya? Something else?