To Aru Kagaku no Railgun S - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[leukrota]

Originally Posted by pkmntrainer7

I can't really see Heaven Canceller so easily helping kids get involved with dark side of Academy City, he should be trying to keep them out of it and not to mention Mikoto telling the others about it.

Involving kids in something dangerous also goes against Yomikawa's main motivation to work in Anti-skill ... but who cares? (tragic past? just ignore that.)

[dniv]

^ Yomikawa ummm involved them for a different reason. Railgun has already shown herself to be capable in front of Yomikawa before so I don't think she's worrying as much. They are also already involved because they are with Febli so it doesn't make that much more of a difference and they desperately want to save her life. IMO that's a good enough reason for Yomikawa to do that. People are just looking for bad things in the episode because so many other people voted it down before having a clue of what's actually going on. That's my own opinion, but those people who rated this episode badly should really rewatch it... it's ridiculous this got low ratings. This is building up to something just as intense as the Sisters arc and we even now have a Kihara. How is that not amazing???

1. They really aren't contradicting canon in any way, shape or form.

I don't know what people are talking about. Mikoto told some characters about the "underworld" of Academy city. How does this contradict the canon?

First, let us think. Mikoto did not mention her sisters to the others at all.

Two, let us continue. Mikoto let her friends know about some of the dangerous darkness in the city. This isn't not canon. Kamachi is writing the fricking story for this arc. So stop all of you complaining it isn't canon. If it weren't canon, Kamachi would have changed the story

The entire storyline for this entire arc was devised by Kamachi so all of you stop complaining. Just because Railgun has finally started exploring the underworld of Academy City which is something people wouldn't expect from a "sidestory" doesn't mean that you guys should be angry at it. Kamachi clearly considers Railgun as an equally important sharer of relevant world-building as he does the "main" series.

Sheesh people need to get this through their heads. This was a great/excellent episode.

People rated this badly initially because they watched it in Japanese and thought the episode was too slow.

The whole point is: this episode doesn't contradict anything. Nothing in it was forced at all! Kongou speaking to Mikoto was very natural. She told her about how her friends felt because she wasn't there to help them. That should be obvious. Her friends follow her around everywhere so why wouldn't they feel that way. Why wouldn't Kongou say that to Mikoto. Maybe it's convenient, but it certainly wasn't forced.

People are annoyed because 1. Mikoto grew up (wow guys and you were complaining all along about her being stubborn and not telling anything to her friends)

2. Mikoto's friends are getting smarter about the city (you want them to stay clueless guys so you can continue joking about them... um... ok... well sorry that doesn't work anymore)

3. Terestina is being brought into the arc (this is the best part of the whole arc other than ITEM so yeah...)

4. ITEM might join and work together with Mikoto... Why wouldn't they? ITEM was on a mission to exterminate Mikoto before. That isn't true anymore. I personally don't see why they couldn't get a long at all.

IMO The real reason people are getting annoyed with this turn of events is because this has new original material that shifts everyone's expectations of what is true in this arc and in the full storyline so people are angry that the sidestory railgun is giving this new information.

Well tough. Railgun/ Railgun S are excellent shows. After seeing what this arc is foreshadowing, Kamachi clearly cares about both Railgun franchise enough to have it start showing Toaru's underworld which it already Debuted with ITEM and now STUDY.

I mean seriously. This recent turn of events is just as big as the sisters arc. People are just getting annoyed because they wanted and were expecting liberal arts city. Now that this arc's storyline started getting really serious just like Primary Consult said, this arc should be getting (this episode should be getting) way more praise.

In the end, this episode was one of the best episodes that have been in all of Railgun, but people are too petty to realize how good it is...

Well whatever, All I know is that I loved this episode 10/10 especially on the third rewatch.

[leukrota]

Cool, just your opinion, but any other opinion is crap right?

[dniv]

Originally Posted by leukrota

Cool, just your opinion, but any other opinion is crap right?

No

When did I say that?

All I said was not to be as harsh to Team Railgun as you guys have been because Kamachi clearly cares enough about the storyline to introduce the underworld.

People are just saying it's a bad arc and written badly and isn't canon, but Kamachi wrote the arc. Um... that was what I was trying to say.

I did go overboard with the rest of my criticism though

And also, I'm still allowed to have my opinion right anyway? My opinion is that people were getting mad for the reasons I gave, it wasn't supposed to apply to everyone, just some of the people complaining.

Either way, I like it because it's an original story, I get that people might want something more "canon," but feel free to disagree. In the end, I'm just another person posting my over-exaggerated opinion on a forum.

And: My apologies (I'm sorry if I offended you...)

[Haak]

Originally Posted by leukrota

Involving kids in something dangerous also goes against Yomikawa's main motivation to work in Anti-skill ... but who cares? (tragic past? just ignore that.)

The most Yomikawa is expecting is for the item to be confiscated. And I think the idea is that she's handing it to Judgement which she doesn't have much of a problem with and has collaborated with frequently.

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by leukrota

Cool, just your opinion, but any other opinion is crap right?

Fact is not opinion.

[Primary Consult]

Originally Posted by pkmntrainer7

While this episode may have been better than some of the recent episodes they are also contradicting canon and messing up some of the characters' personalities. I can't really see Heaven Canceller so easily helping kids get involved with dark side of Academy City, he should be trying to keep them out of it and not to mention Mikoto telling the others about it.

HC was not helping kids get involved in the dark side, he was helping Mikoto. She is the #3 strongest esper, someone who has already been involved with the darkside and handled it well enough, and someone who is only one two years younger than a certain high school student who is a regular patient. This is not out of character for him at all.

And he is also helping Febri not die. *Someone* needs to help her, and it's not going to be law enforcement. Just as the dark side / Aleister has their teams like ITEM, the light side has the likes of Touma and Mikoto who can act outside of the "system" to do what needs to be done.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Primary Consult

HC was not helping kids get involved in the dark side, he was helping Mikoto. She is the #3 strongest esper, someone who has already been involved with the darkside and handled it well enough, and someone who is only one year younger than a certain high school student who regularly needs his care. This is not out of character for him at all.

And he is also helping Febri not die. *Someone* needs to help her, and it's not going to be law enforcement. Just as the dark side / Aleister has their teams like ITEM, the light side has the likes of Touma and Mikoto who can act outside of the "system" to do what needs to be done.

This isn't important, but I think you mean 2 years younger, right?

[leukrota]

@Dniv - It is canon, since Kamachi treats it so, but I honestly have my doubts about how much he really is involved.

It's just a feeling, I got no proof whatsoever, but so far the characterization seems off to me.

If I take a guess, I would presume Kamachi just wrote a general draft for team Railgun to work from. With the important points on, but without enough details.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe my bias stains my vision too much, but I have a hard time fitting this well.

Weirdly enough, I had no such problem with the poltergeist arc (aside the tight time frame)Edit:(and that Rail-kamehameha )

Originally Posted by Haak

The most Yomikawa is expecting is for the item to be confiscated. And I think the idea is that she's handing it to Judgement which she doesn't have much of a problem with and has collaborated with frequently.

That's if she is treating them as Judgement officials, otherwise she only collaborates when they are already on the scene and there is no option to leave them out, even if it's "The Railgun" (like in the first episode this season when Mikoto had to take an alternate route to the roof).

I'll give her the benefit of the doubt thinking that it is so and that she didn't simply hand down the case for them to deal with alone, or it would still be too irresponsible for who she is supposed to be.

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Fact is not opinion.

Thanks for the true and obvious, but pointless statement. There were plenty of opinions in what Dniv said.

[Triple_R]

I largely agree with Sackett.

Like him, I really liked this episode. I agree with him that this episode makes this arc feel much less filler-esque than what it did before. This episode did an excellent job of tying this arc into the previous canon-based arc.

I think this episode was tremendously helpful in affirming Mikoto's character development. It strongly suggests that she's learned that "going it alone" when you have close and reliable friends in your life is probably not the best way to do things. Granted, I was slightly disappointed that Mikoto essentially needed Kongou to remind her of what Touma alone ought to have made clear, but hey, at least it still shows Mikoto moving in the right direction as a character.

What I also very much liked is how Kuroko, Uiharu, and Saten reacted to learning the awful truth from Mikoto. I loved how the three of them just dug right in and instantly started to brainstorm ways to resolve the issue. In so doing, they proved in flying colors that Mikoto was right to tell them about the true situation. I also found their reaction appropriate - Two of them are more or less like teenage police officers, after all. I liked how you could just feel this grand moment of happy, surprised realization wash over Mikoto as she could tell that "Oh, yeah, my friends aren't just everyday civilians, so of course they're jumping right in like this, and so I definitely have great friends that I can trust with this sort of stuff!"

Here we finally see the darkness of the Sisters Arc merge with the camaraderie and friendship that is more typical of Railgun as a whole. Mikoto's two worlds are now being thrust into each other, and it's great to see as its a very natural progression for the wider narrative to take. It raises the stakes overall, and brings the brighter side of Mikoto's life into direct conflict with the darker side of her life, and I'm very interested in seeing how that all plays out.

Now, admittedly, tying this all back into canon adaptation once it comes back again could be tricky, and we'll see how that goes. Hopefully the writing staff will be up to it. Only time will tell if this approach was ultimately worth it or not, but for now at least, it's definitely made this a better and more interesting arc.


I don't have much else to add except that... Wow at Kongou's choice of pets. I haven't seen someone be that comfortable with a big, huge snake wrapped around him or her since I watched Jake "The Snake" Roberts in pro wrestling. The fact that Kongou actually had a bow wrapped around the snake just makes it downright hilarious, lol.

I hope Kongou keeps being important in this arc. She's a fun little character, that's for sure.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

don't have much else to add except that... Wow at Kongou's choice of pets. I haven't seen someone be that comfortable with a big, huge snake wrapped around him or her since I watched Jake "The Snake" Roberts in pro wrestling. The fact that Kongou actually had a bow wrapped around the snake just makes it downright hilarious, lol.

See episode 13 in the last season for the introduction of her pet snake. I think I told you to skip that one so my bad.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by leukrota

@Dniv - It is canon, since Kamachi treats it so, but I honestly have my doubts about how much he really is involved.

It's just a feeling, I got no proof whatsoever, but so far the characterization seems off to me.

If I take a guess, I would presume Kamachi just wrote a general draft for team Railgun to work from. With the important points on, but without enough details.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe my bias stains my vision too much, but I have a hard time fitting this well.

Weirdly enough, I had no such problem with the poltergeist arc (aside the tight time frame)

Ok, yeah this explanation makes me see a lot more where you are coming from I can believe that. I know it's always really frustrating for an author to get the animation staff not to mess up the canon.

Though it is pretty true that we can on the most part treat the manga as the canon and the anime as the canon when it's convenient to do so.

I just wish Kamachi had more control on making the staff do exactly what he wanted them to do

[Bakaizer]

the climax is almost near,
even if Saten Uiharu, Kongou, and KUroko get involved in this they might not have the strength to engage in a combat

i feel like a rematch between 4 and 3 is about to take place
I foreshadow touma appearing in this arc not as a saving the day routine, not as a cameo.

"hey me and the sisters will take those on the other side while you take care of them"
NOte: misaka imouto will inform touma of the situation

[dniv]

Originally Posted by nikohowell

the climax is almost near,
even if Saten Uiharu, Kongou, and KUroko get involved in this they might not have the strength to engage in a combat

i feel like a rematch between 4 and 3 is about to take place
I foreshadow touma appearing in this arc not as a saving the day routine, not as a cameo.

"hey me and the sisters will take those on the other side while you take care of them"
NOte: misaka imouto will inform touma of the situation

Wouldn't the climax hopefully be near episode 24? I'm hoping the excitement keeps on building until then.

[SilverTalon]

Originally Posted by leukrota

@Dniv - It is canon, since Kamachi treats it so, but I honestly have my doubts about how much he really is involved.

It's just a feeling, I got no proof whatsoever, but so far the characterization seems off to me.

If I take a guess, I would presume Kamachi just wrote a general draft for team Railgun to work from. With the important points on, but without enough details.

You don't think a general draft would include things like Mikoto AND friends work to save Febli (which means she has to tell them something and she was extremely vague with details about the dark side)? I agree he very likely didn't write the script so if certain lines are delivered in ways that seem out of character (saw some valid complaints about some of Kongou's), thats fair. The people calling this a travesty because Mikoto told them a dark side exists and really nothing else at all are way over reacting. (If you weren't in that camp and this is misdirected, my bad)

Originally Posted by leukrota

That's if she is treating them as Judgement officials, otherwise she only collaborates when they are already on the scene and there is no option to leave them out, even if it's "The Railgun" (like in the first episode this season when Mikoto had to take an alternate route to the roof).

I'll give her the benefit of the doubt thinking that it is so and that she didn't simply hand down the case for them to deal with alone, or it would still be too irresponsible for who she is supposed to be.


Thanks for the true and obvious, but pointless statement. There were plenty of opinions in what Dniv said.

It could also be that Yomikawa realizes her hands are pretty much tied and this is a serious issue that could end up with a little 'girl' getting killed. She had no problems backing them up and letting them head off into danger against Thelestina and they weren't already on scene. I would say Yomikawa is realistic enough to understand that while she whole heartedly wants to keep the kids safe, sometimes she has to rely on the help of some of the kids to save others. If this wasn't basically the case, she wouldn't let them take risks on the scene either like she does with Touma and Mikoto.

[FlareKnight]

I do think the approach they are taking is pretty good. Do their best to tie this arc into the past to make it a stronger arc overall. Also gives them a chance to show Mikoto's continued development.

I suppose its easy to fall back into previous habits so Mikoto needed a couple more reminders not to just go it alone. At least avoided going back into that kind of dark place where she's just trying to carry everything alone.

Originally Posted by nikohowell

the climax is almost near,
even if Saten Uiharu, Kongou, and KUroko get involved in this they might not have the strength to engage in a combat

i feel like a rematch between 4 and 3 is about to take place
I foreshadow touma appearing in this arc not as a saving the day routine, not as a cameo.

"hey me and the sisters will take those on the other side while you take care of them"
NOte: misaka imouto will inform touma of the situation

I feel the odds are pretty low of Touma getting involved in this situation. They are dealing with fighting robots it seems not espers or magicians. He'd just get his ass kicked dealing with those kinds of things.

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by dniv

This was so cool. I got 2 wisdom teeth pulled literally 15 minutes after the episode ended

Poor guy. I'm glad I have my wisdom tooth surgery and the two miserable weeks that followed way behind me (June 2012).

Haha, the girls were somewhat more catty than usual this episode, with Misaka invariably referring to Nunotaba as 'Creepy Girl' and Saten bitching about Heaven Canceler's stock answers and likening him to Gekota (Saten needs to back the fuck off, nobody insults my bro HC and lives to tell about it). Also, I found that bit right before the 'Next Episode Preview' with Misaka giving Febri a lollipop amidst all sorts of shrill, horror movie-esque noises to be immensely creepy.

[Sumeragi]

Two small details that caught my eyes:

1. Misaka's Kitten now seems to have adapted to the natural electromagnetive fields emitted by the Misakas. I find that to be really, really cute.

2. I think I should get my next cell phone from Kongou Aviation Industry.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Two small details that caught my eyes:

1. Misaka's Kitten now seems to have adapted to the natural electromagnetive fields emitted by the Misakas. I find that to be really, really cute.

Houryu and Sphinx's daily life.

I'll totally watch that kind of SoL episode...

[leukrota]

Originally Posted by SilverTalon

She had no problems backing them up and letting them head off into danger against Thelestina and they weren't already on scene. I would say Yomikawa is realistic enough to understand that while she whole heartedly wants to keep the kids safe, sometimes she has to rely on the help of some of the kids to save others. If this wasn't basically the case, she wouldn't let them take risks on the scene either like she does with Touma and Mikoto.

They were going against Thelestina with or without her. Yomikawa's only options were to help or not.

Though admittedly, it must be frustrating for her to have so little clearance and equipment access. Especially the poor equipment... Of course, it's not like they would just hand a ****OVER or even a combat suit to what is basically a simple cop.

But whatever, I still think she wouldn't normally enable reckless behavior by handing evidence on a dangerous case... and without even being asked to, to boot. Precisely because she is realistic I think she would only allow a kid to face danger under extreme circumstances... risking four kids to save one could have tragic consequences after all.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Houryu and Sphinx's daily life.

I'll totally watch that kind of SoL episode...

Sphinx: I live in a battle field (for food).

Houryu: I live in an electric field.

Sphinx: