[Manga] Claymore Chapter 74 Discussion

[Fate_Archer]

Originally Posted by Devilz911

She underestimated Duff.

No, she didn't. She just knew she was gonna win.
What is strength if you will never hit your target? Riful's intervention was the factor that totally changed the tide of the battle.

Knowing the mechanics of Galatea's manipulation, she told Duff exactly how to counter it. Before that, Duff was crying of despair, he couldn't land a hit, the best he could do was getting his hand cut off.

Galatea did mention that when she releases her Youki, it is the greatest of all 47 (excluding Alicia, Beth, and Rafaela). So for Miata to have more Youki than her is remarkable.

If she said that it's the greatest release of all 47, then Alicia , Beth and Raphaella are included.
I can accept her yoki being greater than Raphaella's, but greater than Alicia's or Beth's, then I really don't know.
Also, Galatea never saw Alicia or Beth.

[theory-> Possible explanation]

Maybe, it's the quality of the yoki.
Her yoki enhances her strength and speed proportionally more than all the other Claymores.
It makes sense if we consider Galatea's exact words:

Galatea: "I am told that the factor by which my power increases when I release... Is the biggest out of all us 47 Claymores."

It also reminds me of Teresa, who with 10% of yoki release was much stronger than any other Claymore of her generation.
[/theory]

Originally Posted by rath-vermouth

I see... if I remember correctly, Galatea didn't release all that much youki while fighting with Duff. I think if she released it a bit more, she could've won. Maybe she didn't want Riful to take action while Clare and Jeane were underground.

She had released 50% (source: databook 3). Actually, what you just said made me think think, and I started to have my own doubts about this subject.

But maybe, she just wanted to hold Duff. Maybe she could have won against him in that moment if she really wanted to (though I think she would end up even more injured than she was, or in the worst scenario, the two would end up dead).

This is not fanboy delirium, look at this:

10% ==> Galatea could pierce Duff's hand in the hard side with his own poles, Clare also did this but only when she was using her Claymore and going berserk.

Galatea

Spoiler for size of the image:

Clare

Spoiler for same above:

So, if she could do this using 10%, using a release of 50%, that is 5 times more, why couldn't she make pretty bad damages against Duff (even in the hard skin) using her Claymore?
I mean, it's 5 times more. 5 times more power.

When she started to release, she immediately cut the hard skin in Duff's mouth. Hitting in the right spot, she could even cut off his hand.
It's clear that even though Galatea is a defensive warrior, she has a strength comparable to many other offensive Claymores. Or even greater.

And there is the possibility that she could have used even more, like 60% or 70% in that fight, we haven't seen what happened while Clare was trying to find and help Jean, and according to Riful, she was very close to her limit.
It doesn't sound right that Galatea couldn't seriously injure Duff using all this strength, unless she couldn't land even one hit at all. She was the wounded one when Clare and Jean appeared.

Thinking more about it, I came up with this interpretation:

Spoiler for what we know that doesn't exactly change:

At first Galatea just wanted to take Clare and get out of there, bringing Clare to the Organization, originally it was her only mission.
But she was cornered, and couldn't just walk away. So, without options, she faced Duff.
For a moment, she was winning, but things started to get difficult and she realized how tough her opponent is.
Knowing that Riful wasn't going to do something, and knowing that it was Jean who was downstairs, she decided that she wanted her power to join in the fight.

Spoiler for now the other perspective:

At first, she wasn't going to save Jean, but given the circumstances, saving Jean became not only an opportunity but a need in that battle.
Even though Galatea knew that she could have a chance against Duff using her full power, she also knew that it was far too risky and it could led to even worse injuries or death in the worst possibilities.

So, the best plan in the situation was definitely that. Jean would be saved and her side would become the more favored in the battle.
While Clare was looking for Jean, it was Galatea's mission to hold Duff until they come back.

Also, Galatea knew that her plan could be backfired in the possibility that Jean totally awakened.
In that case, she asked Clare to take Jean's head. If that happened, Galatea and Clare would have to come up with something different (plus, they would have lost time and effort, when Clare would have come back, Galatea would be seriously injured, like she really was when Clare returned).

Not a great change really, just another way to see the facts.
Having so much power and not being able to cause a great damage on Duff when Clare came back doesn't sound right to me.

Maybe it explains why Galatea didn't want to use brute strength against Duff. Also, it doesn't fit with her personality, she is smart enough to find different ways for solving problems.

Originally Posted by Devilz911

I think there's a big difference between Galatea and Rafaela, but I dunno how they compare to Alicia/Beth in Claymore form.

I don't think it's a really big gap.
Raphaella is naturally faster and a bit stronger. Galatea's manipulation wouldn't add much for her side because I think Raphaella's stealthy yoki and the knowledge that she probably has of energy alignment probably would give her advantage to overcome Galatea's manipulation ability.

But it's in the yoki release that Galatea could have a chance against Raphaella. Having the greatest release could nullify Raphaella's advantage of speed and strength, turning this hypothetical battle in a fight of skill and raw power.

That's where I can't go any further and imagine the outcome, because we haven't seen Raphaella's fighting skills. We know that Galatea is very skilled, while Raphaella is just another wild card.

Regarding Alicia and Beth, if we consider the info in the databooks, they are really the most powerful Claymores in the annals of the Organization. Without awakening, they are even stronger than Teresa.
It's hard to imagine a Claymore stronger than Teresa, but it seems that they really are.

Galatea is probably #3 because of her importance as the "Eye" of the Organization.

Ok, lets clarify something here.

First of all:

1) Galatea was the number #3 of the Organization.

And second:

2) Galatea was the eye of the organization.

She had a special status that influenced the nature of some of her missions, but it doesn't mean that her only assignment was to explore things with her detailed and wide senses.

Actually, one of the parts of her job was to bring missing Claymores back to the Organization. Dead or alive. This can be understood as killing the missing or renegade Claymore if they don't want to return, and bringing the corpse to the Organization.
So, fighting other Claymores is something predicted in her function.
To fulfill the position where one must deal with other (much times renegade) Claymores, one must be pretty strong.
That's part of the function of number #3 and the only function of number #5 of 78th generation, which in my view, was the most protected generation against renegade Claymores.


Another thing, was her calmness while fighting against Duff and facing Riful, an Abyssal one.
Her calmness is a guarantee of her experience and proof of the many dangerous situations that she has been through.
She acted like it was part of her day to come to the abyssal's den, take what she wants and get out of there.

Looking at the way she fought Duff, who is a powerful awakened being, it's safe to assume that it's in Galatea's capabilities soloing awakened beings.

Let me quote Rubel in this matter:

[after deluding himself with what he wanted to happen, Rubel tells what happened and what will be of Galatea...]

Rubel: "That is what I would like to to tell you anyways. But sadly, she is quite useful to the Organization."
Rubel: "Taking her previous merits into account as well... we dicided to spare her life."
Rubel: "The tough missions will keep coming for now..."
Rubel: "But if she stays alive... good for her!"

Some time later...

Lemuto: "How rare for you to show your face at the Organization voluntarily."
Lemuto: "Don't you have things to do?"
Galatea: "Thanks to you I do in fact."
Galatea: "Because half of my comrades where sent north, I have been rather busy."

Yeah, she was assigned to make missions in other areas, the areas assigned to her comrades.
I think it's also safe to say that these missions included yoma and perhaps, awakened beings extermination.
Like Ophelia and Raphaella, Galatea used to make her missions alone, and with a lack of 24 Claymores, it's not like she had any company for these missions.

Galatea was a hardcore number #3, and also the so important 'eye' of the Organization.
I will go as far and say that she was one of the best and most useful Claymores that the Organization ever had.
Lemuto, the Organization's leader, recognized how superb she is and how they still needed her.

Also, Lune is the new 'eye' of the Organization, and we know that she is not in the top #5 of the current (79th) generation.

Originally Posted by Valerian Mengsk

I also think that the #four spot seems to be (recently) reserved for powerful yet unstable Claymores while #3 is reserved for the eyes of the organization.

Audrey and Lune break your reasoning.

Tabitha, who was formerly #31, and is the eyes of the new group, though Miria and Clare seem to be somewhat equal to her. She may be as good at sensing youma in battle and utiliyzing that sense as Clare is, and may have begun developing her own techniques as well, or may have started training with youki manipulation after maybe hearing about it from Clare.

Certainly, abilities like Galatea's or Teresa's aren't something that can be learned from day to night.
Seven years have passed, so lets see what this girl is capable of...

[rath-vermouth]

Fate_Archer, where can I get the databooks?

[Fate_Archer]

Originally Posted by rath-vermouth

Fate_Archer, where can I get the databooks?

Since you're new here, I suggest you to read the rules.

It's forbidden to link to sources of untranslated manga or other medias considered unethical (by this forum).
But you can always PM other users, that's not forbidden I guess.

By the way, welcome to the forums.

[rath-vermouth]

Oh! Sorry Won't happen again.

[Devilz911]

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

No, she didn't. She just knew she was gonna win.

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

For a moment, she was winning, but things started to get difficult and she realized how tough her opponent is.

Do I see a contradiction?

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

What is strength if you will never hit your target? Riful's intervention was the factor that totally changed the tide of the battle.

Knowing the mechanics of Galatea's manipulation, she told Duff exactly how to counter it.

Not really all she said was she'd leave him if he missed, then Duff fought seriously.

Riful: Alright then, I'll teach you how to punch so you won't miss her. So hit her next time, okay?
Riful: Use your strength, and hit her with all you got.
Duff: But...I just told you...that's what I've been tryin' to do. But it just ain't workin'.
Riful: Just try it again, okay? If you miss this time, I'm leaving you.
Duff: No...no...not that...

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

If she said that it's the greatest release of all 47, then Alicia , Beth and Raphaella are included.

I can accept her yoki being greater than Raphaella's, but greater than Alicia's or Beth's, then I really don't know.
Also, Galatea never saw Alicia or Beth.

She has never seen Alicia or Beth, yup. And Rafaela doesn't even use Youki, so she can't include either of these 3 in her statement without it being a lie.

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

I don't think it's a really big gap.

Maybe.

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

Raphaella is naturally faster and a bit stronger. Galatea's manipulation wouldn't add much for her side because I think Raphaella's stealthy yoki and the knowledge that she probably has of energy alignment probably would give her advantage to overcome Galatea's manipulation ability.

Manipulation definitely doesn't work against Rafaela, who doesn't even use Youki. Not to mention that manipulation is hardly effective against someone much stronger than its user.

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

But it's in the yoki release that Galatea could have a chance against Raphaella. Having the greatest release could nullify Raphaella's advantage of speed and strength, turning this hypothetical battle in a fight of skill and raw power.

Like I said Rafaela wasn't included in her statement because she has never seen her use Youki. So we don't know who gets the greater release.

[khryoleoz]

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

Regarding Alicia and Beth, if we consider the info in the databooks, they are really the most powerful Claymores in the annals of the Organization. Without awakening, they are even stronger than Teresa.
It's hard to imagine a Claymore stronger than Teresa, but it seems that they really are.

I don't know about that. The twins in their Claymore form are measured just slightly ahead of Teresa in physicality (a + to the same letter grade), Teresa a letter grade above in the most useful skill to have in fighting Yoma and ABs, with all three equal in yoki. I think they're just about even with Teresa slightly ahead.

I don't think that Alicia ever battles in her Claymore form if from the very start she and Beth were designed special for a specific purpose, to combat the Abyssal Ones and even possibly Priscilla. So I'm not sure if we can make calls about whether they are stronger than Teresa as Claymores in a linear comparison. Alicia is indisputably the strongest of Claymores in the org's history for being the ONLY one to be able to use her full potential by awakening. Teresa did not have this luxury. That's why I'm very curious about Rosemary's stats. If she is on the same level as the Abyssal Ones, and Alicia is as strong as they, then Teresa AND Priscilla are in a league so beyond anybody else, especially since both of their latent abilities (and yes I include Teresa) have been shrouded in mystery during their Claymore careers. Because if Teresa can handle with ease an AO level AB the way she handled Rosemary, then all I have to say is...wow!

[Devilz911]

I think Rosemary was exceptionally weak for a former No. 1 :/ I would put her around Rigaldo at best. Ranking her up with the Abyssal Ones would make Teresa seem invincible...she twisted her friggin' arm off!

[chibamonster]

Originally Posted by Devilz911

I think Rosemary was exceptionally weak for a former No. 1 :/ I would put her around Rigaldo at best. Ranking her up with the Abyssal Ones would make Teresa seem invincible...she twisted her friggin' arm off!

Exactly. Teresa was neigh invincible. She took on Priscilla who is currently 2X abyssal At least in my opinion

[khryoleoz]

Originally Posted by Devilz911

I think Rosemary was exceptionally weak for a former No. 1 :/ I would put her around Rigaldo at best. Ranking her up with the Abyssal Ones would make Teresa seem invincible...she twisted her friggin' arm off!

Dude, you really need to change your avatar!

[Sassarai]

Galatea didn't underestimate Duff. I think she was just playing mind games with him so she could set him up for youki control.


Hasn't Galatea already proven she's good at fighting? I mean, she would of probably beaten duff or done some serious dmg to him if Riful hadn't of interefered. She's smart and her stats aren't too shabby either. Also she is a defensive type so she can regenerate.

Raphael is number 5 and Irene already pointed out she could of been lower but the org put her at 5 as punishment or something. She is probably stronger then Gal.

Ophelia is stronger then Galatea but that doesn't necessarily mean she could win. She awakened after getting easily owned by Irene. Someone that weak minded against someone as smart as Gal.

So that just leaves number 6 which is Miria. I don't think Miria could beat Galatea. Maybe time skip Miria could but then time skip Galatea is pretty strong too . Who knows.

So yeah I do believe Galate deserves number 3 not just because shes the "eye"

[khryoleoz]

I also don't believe she underestimated Duff. She knew her power alone was not enough to take him and needed to call upon Jean's power if she could count on it. The plan was to buy the time needed to acquire that power. If not, plan B would have been some desperate plan to make an escape.

[rath-vermouth]

Originally Posted by Devilz911

She has never seen Alicia or Beth, yup. And Rafaela doesn't even use Youki, so she can't include either of these 3 in her statement without it being a lie.

I thought Galatea have met the twins...

Spoiler for manga:

[Devilz911]

Originally Posted by khryoleoz

Dude, you really need to change your avatar!

Just cus I like her doesn't make her invincible.

Originally Posted by rath-vermouth

I thought Galatea have met the twins...

That was after the battle against Duff. Before that she never met them.

[rath-vermouth]

Originally Posted by Devilz911

That was after the battle against Duff. Before that she never met them.

Putting that aside... are the twins good at youki suppression, like Priscilla? If Miria is aware of the twins (albeit her doing some digging up), Galatea should be aware of them too. She should at least be able to sense them. Their soul link training must've required them to release their youki.

[Fate_Archer]

Originally Posted by Devilz911

Do I see a contradiction?

No, you don't.

Originally Posted by Me

No, she didn't. She just knew she was gonna win [if riful hadn't intervened, rendering her manipulation practically useless].

Originally Posted by Me

For a moment, she was winning, but things started to get difficult [because Riful intervened] and she realized how tough her opponent is.

Fixed for you.
Hope you get it now. Yeah, It seems more like one of the "and If I had stolen Gandalf's horse?" situations, but the outcome would be different for sure.

Not really all she said was she'd leave him if he missed, then Duff fought seriously.

Riful: Alright then, I'll teach you how to punch so you won't miss her. So hit her next time, okay?
Riful: Use your strength, and hit her with all you got.
Duff: But...I just told you...that's what I've been tryin' to do. But it just ain't workin'.
Riful: Just try it again, okay? If you miss this time, I'm leaving you.
Duff: No...no...not that...

4 pages later:

Pg 165

Riful: "There. Now you've got it."
Clare: "!"
Riful: "If you'd have done it like that from the start, you wouldn't have lost your hand."

Pg 166

Clare: "You..."
Clare: "What did you do?"
Riful: "Me? I didn't do anything."
Riful: "I just made Dauf exert his real power, that's all."
Riful: "Your friend's specialty is to read through yoma aura and descriminate down to the smallest part."
Riful: "Doing that, she can harmonize with her opponent and control their motions."
Clare: "!"
Riful: "Well, I can't go so far as to say 'control'."
Riful: "She catches her opponent guard, aims for where their awareness is weak, and putting her own energy in harmony moves them just a little bit."

Pg 167

Riful: "So, it's almost impossible for her to control the opponent's movements themselves or to actually stop an attack."
Riful: "Even more so if the opponent has more power than herself."
Riful: "So, at first it's necessary to mislead them."
Riful: "While the opponent gets careless and relaxes, she distracts them to get them confused."
Riful: "That's how it works."
Riful: "It's hard to put your true power into a strike when you doubt whether or not it will hit."
Riful: "But with a focused, concentrated strike from an opponent stronger than her..."
Riful: "...Even though it looks the same, there's not a thing she can do about it."

Translation: That's exactly what Dauf needed to overcome Galatea's technique. Anger, fury, determination, willpower, or what you will.
Attacks with great willpower, strength and no doubts are attacks that lack breaks (I call breaks or weakspots these places where their awareness is weak) that enable Galatea's manipulation.

By threatening and taunting Dauf, he started to attack with all his strength, rendering Galatea's manipulation (her best weapon against Dauf) almost useless because of the lack of weak spots in the yoki-flow.
Galatea could still move some parts of his body (like a finger, or his mouth), even though he was using his full strength, but Galatea was not dominating the battle anymore.

Here, I tried to explain the mechanics of Galatea's manipulation, while defending Galatea's honor.
But since I'm a theory nut, and it's just my view, you can always disagree.

She has never seen Alicia or Beth, yup. And Rafaela doesn't even use Youki, so she can't include either of these 3 in her statement without it being a lie.

Well, Raphaella doesn't use, but it's not like she doesn't have. Personally, I see yoki as something that can't be hidden.
Sometimes we hear something like "her yoki completely disappeared...", but I think we should not take this literally.

I think that for Claymores with great suppression skills, or any other Claymore that hasn't been using yoki for years, the state of the yoki is exactly this, suppressed, not missing, lacking or disappeared.
But the suppression draws the yoki level to a level so low, that can barely be felt by the most talented yoki sensitives, and cannot be felt at all by normal Claymores.

So it's not like it disappears, it cannot be sensed.

Some points about this:

• Irene statement when she was explaining Teresa's preemptive technique, when a Claymore move, yoki goes to the respective part of the body.
  By seeing the flow and sensing its strength, it's possible to have the idea of the speed, strength and direction of the upcoming attack.
  The amount of yoki sent when walking or doing simple movements is probably insignificant and can barely be sensed. But when battling, the movements become harder, faster and stronger.
  Great amounts of yoki began to be sent to the body. Even Priscilla, who was the champion of suppression of yoki and could even surprise Teresa's senses at first, had her yoki predicted movement by movement after some time battling.

• Yoma tissue. It's the yoma tissue that gives Claymores their hybrid condition. It's the same tissue that makes them able to involuntarily emanate yoki or to voluntarily release yoki to increase their powers.
  Claymores have tissue that emanate this kind of energy, it's part of their bodies. Something like this cannot be totally hide (aka 0%. emission, human standard).
  If you want to go even further, there are probably cells working and living in this tissue, so there is always energy being made, even if it's an insignificant amount.
  If I had to theorize, I would say that suppression makes the level of activity in the yoma tissue fall to such a state of lethargy, that it can hardly be sensed.

• Galatea sensed the yoki auras of Miata and Clarice when they both were using suppressants, that are supposed to make their yoma energies "disappear". Suppressants have shown to be good alternatives for yoki suppression.
  The effect is so quick and strong, that the eye color of the Claymores almost immediately change*. Even though the yoki level becomes really low, with very detailed sensing abilities, it's possible to sense it.

Also, how could Galatea know that Raphaella was nearby the northern lands, with the duty of "punishing" the ones that could possibly get out of their charges?
I'm pretty sure that it was not a handler that told her this.

*: Maybe, the yoki suppressants also act in the part of the tissue responsible for giving Claymores their so characteristic silver eyes. The lessened activity of the part that makes their eye glow silver give them their normal eye color for limited time.

Maybe.

Only Yagi-sensei really knows.

Manipulation definitely doesn't work against Rafaela, who doesn't even use Youki. Not to mention that manipulation is hardly effective against someone much stronger than its user.

Manipulation worked with Claymores on suppression pills, so it's not impossible that it could work with a stealthy Claymore.

And their level of yoki are probably the same, if Galatea's level is not higher. In the databooks their level is evaluated as the same, A. Equal levels of energy actually make the alignment and the manipulation easier to happen. Manipulation seems to be based on the harmonizing(alignment) of levels, so a power of the same level or lesser, is perfectly susceptible to be manipulated.
It's by other reasons that I think that Galatea's manipulation won't work against Raphaella.

Like I said Rafaela wasn't included in her statement because she has never seen her use Youki. So we don't know who gets the greater release.

It's not like she need to see Raphaella releasing to know the full extents of her powers. Galatea can calculate how strong someone is just by sensing the yoki suppressed.

Since the beginning, she knew that the real monster was Riful, who was downstairs when she found Clare.
She felt Riful's overwhelming yoki and Riful is always greatly suppressing her energy. Clare and Audrey could only feel Riful's energy after some time and when they were really close to her. Audrey even pissed her paints when she realized how powerful Riful is.
I'm tired of making quotes again, so I will just put the pages: Chapter 44, Pg 11 (Pg 145 of volume 8).

Yeah, the Organization doesn't make numbers #3 like in the past.
Surprisingly, Galatea is the only one who didn't end up scared by an overwhelming mass of yoki.
Irene become terrified of Priscilla's powers and Audrey pissed her paints. Galatea felt the power of the 3 abyssals. Lets see how she react after sensing Priscilla's powers. After all, that's why Galatea is here now, to balance the powers in this 4 sided battle (Organization, Easley, Riful and fab7).

And Galatea felt Miata's yoki level, which is even greater than hers when Miata was in the effects of suppressants.

So, no need to sense yoki releases. Galatea is like Sauron.
She is the eye of the Ur-Claymore, piercing illusions and darkness.

And people still think that she doesn't have the best sensing skills of the series.

Originally Posted by khryoleoz

I don't know about that. The twins in their Claymore form are measured just slightly ahead of Teresa in physicality (a + to the same letter grade), Teresa a letter grade above in the most useful skill to have in fighting Yoma and ABs, with all three equal in yoki. I think they're just about even with Teresa slightly ahead.

I don't think that Alicia ever battles in her Claymore form if from the very start she and Beth were designed special for a specific purpose, to combat the Abyssal Ones and even possibly Priscilla. So I'm not sure if we can make calls about whether they are stronger than Teresa as Claymores in a linear comparison. Alicia is indisputably the strongest of Claymores in the org's history for being the ONLY one to be able to use her full potential by awakening.

There was the possibility of Alicia going after Galatea (Beth was not included). This suggests that Alicia doesn't only fight in her awakened form, even though she expend 95% of her living training for this.
Plus, her high stats of speed and strength also (and obviously) indicate that she fights as well.

In the hypothetical conflict between Teresa and Alicia (or Beth), if Alicia is really what she seems to be, I think Teresa would have a really hard time, and not the opposite.
The only serious injure that we have seen Teresa taking was when Priscilla released so much yoki that Teresa couldn't predict and discern the attack.
If Priscilla who had A+ in yoki, using 70% (at 80% she passed her limits and killed Teresa with her cheap shot) she could greatly reduce Teresa's trump that is her ability to read the yoki flow, then I would say that Alicia releasing 50% is more than enough to almost nullify it. Maybe 30% of this level is enough for it.
It's the same S level of yoki that Teresa had. Teresa probably never went beyond 10%, but if she wanted to stay alive in this given situation, she would have to use the same amount of power as well, and the amount of energy being released would be so overwhelming, that it would be easier to fight with her eyes than relying in her yoki sensing ability.

In this case, Alicia would have the advantage, given her best physical attributes that would be increased to in the same or in a similar level to Teresa's attributes.
But Teresa is probably a lot more experienced, and we haven't seen Alicia's skills yet, but the natural advantage of Alicia stands clear.
If Teresa would win this battle, it would be by not apparent factors like stats or her yoki sensing ability. It would be for something like her experience, or her possible greater skill.

We haven't seen Alicia fighting in her Claymore form, but our only source to speculate how powerful she is, indicates that she is the most powerful Claymore that appeared until now.
With Miata having the potential to even surpass her. Scary.

[fanboy ON]
But GO GO GO Galatea!!!
Never give up!!! You're doing great, keep doing like this and you will kick her ass!!!
Go Go Go Gally!!! \o/
[/fanboy off]

[Devilz911]

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

Translation: That's exactly what Dauf needed to overcome Galatea's technique. Anger, fury, determination, willpower, or what you will.

Attacks with great willpower, strength and no doubts are attacks that lack breaks (I call breaks or weakspots these places where their awareness is weak) that enable Galatea's manipulation.

Yup, that's what happened. Duff was worried that Riful would leave him, Riful didn't really say anything Duff didn't already know/wasn't already doing. It was all Duff.

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

Here, I tried to explain the mechanics of Galatea's manipulation, while defending Galatea's honor.

But since I'm a theory nut, and it's just my view, you can always disagree.

I like it.

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

Some points about this:

...
...

Good points.

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

Also, how could Galatea know that Raphaella was nearby the northern lands, with the duty of "punishing" the ones that could possibly get out of their charges?

I'm pretty sure that it was not a handler that told her this.

Could have been. Who knows.

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

And their level of yoki are probably the same, if Galatea's level is not higher. In the databooks their level is evaluated as the same, A. Equal levels of energy actually make the alignment and the manipulation easier to happen. Manipulation seems to be based on the harmonizing(alignment) of levels, so a power of the same level or lesser, is perfectly susceptible to be manipulated.

I guess I have to look at the data books. But I guess I agree with this.

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

It's by other reasons that I think that Galatea's manipulation won't work against Raphaella.

What reasons would that be?

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

It's not like she need to see Raphaella releasing to know the full extents of her powers. Galatea can calculate how strong someone is just by sensing the yoki suppressed.

Yeah, but how can she actually calculate how much one gains from releasing Youki, especially one who never uses it.

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

Since the beginning, she knew that the real monster was Riful, who was downstairs when she found Clare.

Suppressing Youki...not using Youki...using suppressants. I wonder which makes it hardest to detect?

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

She felt Riful's overwhelming yoki and Riful is always greatly suppressing her energy. Clare and Audrey could only feel Riful's energy after some time and when they were really close to her. Audrey even pissed her paints when she realized how powerful Riful is.

Galatea was close enough to Riful to sense it. I wonder if she ever got close to Rafaela.

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

And Galatea felt Miata's yoki level, which is even greater than hers when Miata was in the effects of suppressants.

Post time-skip, her sense has gotten much better. I don't think suppression pills can stop her And she was fighting with Miata, who is a newbie so Galatea could easily sense her flow of Youki during battle.

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

And people still think that she doesn't have the best sensing skills of the series.

I do! *raises hand

[Sassarai]

Originally Posted by Devilz911

Yup, that's what happened. Duff was worried that Riful would leave him, Riful didn't really say anything Duff didn't already know/wasn't already doing. It was all Duff.

Actually Duff wouldn't of been able to figure out what Galatea was doing to him without Riful's help. He was getting frustrated and confused more and more till Riful showed up. Riful had to threatened Duff that she would leave hm if he didn't hit Galatea next time. This caused Duff to put all his effort into his swing. If it wasn't for that I believe Duff would of gotten hurt a lot more or defeated. So yah I Riful was a major factor.

[Fate_Archer]

Originally Posted by Devilz911

Yup, that's what happened. Duff was worried that Riful would leave him, Riful didn't really say anything Duff didn't already know/wasn't already doing. It was all Duff.

Duff couldn't make it by himself.
It was with Riful's help that he overcame Galatea's manipulation. If it wasn't by Riful's provocation, Dauf would be in the same way he was, crying and about to lose another limb.

I like it.

Good points.

Thanks, glad you like it.

Could have been. Who knows.

Unlikely, since it was Rubel who ended up telling the truth.

I guess I have to look at the data books. But I guess I agree with this.

[Jap-Manga] Claymore Statistics, Power Levels, and Theories, here you will find the stats of all the Claymores that appear in the 3 databooks released, it's on the first page.
There are very interesting discussions happening in this Thread.

What reasons would that be?

Raphaella knows how to align her yoki as well, so it's possible that she knows how to react and counter Galatea's manipulation, that is based on the same principles of the Soul Link (yoki alignment).
That's what I spoke above, she probably has the knowledge to counter this technique. Like Alicia and Beth, Raphaella and Luciella probably spent great part of their lives training the Soul Link, which involves yoki alignment.

Yeah, but how can she actually calculate how much one gains from releasing Youki, especially one who never uses it.

Somehow, she can estimate how strong someone is just by feeling the yoki suppressed, or rather, feeling the real power trying to be hidden. It gives her a pretty good (if not exact) idea of how one can be strong.

Suppressing Youki...not using Youki...using suppressants. I wonder which makes it hardest to detect?

I'm really not sure about it, we still can't make analogue comparisons about the best way of suppressing yoma energy.
Some think it's the suppressants, others think it's the natural suppression.

Galatea was close enough to Riful to sense it. I wonder if she ever got close to Rafaela.

Depends of what you think it's close. Close like 9 feet was Clare's distance.
Galatea knew it was Riful since she arrived when Riful was still playing with Jean.

About Raphaella, like you said, who knows?

[Flar]

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

But the suppression draws the yoki level to a level so low, that can barely be felt by the most talented yoki sensitives, and cannot be felt at all by normal Claymores.

In your examples, you forgot Teresa sensing Rafaella from afar even though she had her Yoki suppressed.

I'm not sold on the ultra low yoki level theory, considering what the ghost 7 can do. I would rather see a technique preventing Yoki leaks, and therefore making Yoki use more efficient. Of course, shielded Claymores cannot flare their power or it shatters the leaking shield. It fits with what Galatea says to Clarice and Miata: she doesn't even notice they are on suppression pills, so the pills didn't lower their Yoki, just shield it from detection. It also explains why you cannot sense anything while under suppression pills, the shield blocks any Yoki input, so to speak.
In case of voluntary Yoki suppression, either it's the ultra-low Yoki, or Yoki-supressing Claymores just control their input and output that well, they block the netbios ports but not the web port, so to speak.

Also, how could Galatea know that Raphaella was nearby the northern lands, with the duty of "punishing" the ones that could possibly get out of their charges?

She guessed it, it's pretty obvious from the dialogue. She has an epiphany about the org when she hears the end of the discussion between MiB, and cynically gives the most likely scenario, along with the politically correct reasons for the purge. She just sees through them, and is disgusted, they say as much after she leaves. No need for any sensing skills, anyone with a brain would have reached the same conclusion she did considering the info the MiB fed her.

[Devilz911]

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

Duff couldn't make it by himself.

It was with Riful's help that he overcame Galatea's manipulation. If it wasn't by Riful's provocation, Dauf would be in the same way he was, crying and about to lose another limb.

Duff underestimated Galatea, he didn't see her as a threat at all. Then it cost him when he lost one of his hands. He's not the smartest AB around. The truth is Riful didn't really tell Duff anything he didn't already know. He's just stupid.

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

Raphaella knows how to align her yoki as well, so it's possible that she knows how to react and counter Galatea's manipulation, that is based on the same principles of the Soul Link (yoki alignment)
.
That's what I spoke above, she probably has the knowledge to counter this technique. Like Alicia and Beth, Raphaella and Luciella probably spent great part of their lives training the Soul Link, which involves yoki alignment.

I agree with this.