[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Translation Project

[DoktorFunk]

Originally Posted by zorahk

Did you guys decide to change the romanization for the siestas to chiester?

I hope not. I don't care what the legitimate name is, when you hear it, it sounds like 'Siesta'... Sure I'm bias because that's what i have come to know them as, but the relation between the imperial guards and Kinzo's western arms seems vague at best. I think OMK is the one that needs to change the romanization

[zorahk]

Originally Posted by DoktorFunk

I hope not. I don't care what the legitimate name is, when you hear it, it sounds like 'Siesta'... Sure I'm bias because that's what i have come to know them as, but the relation between the imperial guards and Kinzo's western arms seems vague at best. I think OMK is the one that needs to change the romanization

Regardless of what you like, if the romanization is inaccurate it needs to be changed. It's obvious they're supposed to represent the guns, but I'm not sure why they didn't then write the name as チエスタ or チェスタ if it was supposed to be Chiester. So I'm not sure which is supposed to be correct.

[Oblivion]

To be honest though, whenever I see the word Chiester, it sounds like Chester to me lol.

[LordMune]

How is the romanization inaccurate? Both "siesta" and "chiester" are corruptions of "winchester", and "siesta" is closer to the original kana. Nevermind Ougonmusoukyoku- hell, IIRC Battler's sprites are named "but_*.bmp" in the files of the original games, but that doesn't mean he's called Butler.

[Witch of Uncertainty]

As of today, I am done with my exams.
I look forward to the release!

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by LordMune

How is the romanization inaccurate? Both "siesta" and "chiester" are corruptions of "winchester", and "siesta" is closer to the original kana. Nevermind Ougonmusoukyoku- hell, IIRC Battler's sprites are named "but_*.bmp" in the files of the original games, but that doesn't mean he's called Butler.

that's a different matter. How they call the files is simply something that they use for their own convenience not something that the readers are supposed to see and use as reference.

For example "Lion"'s files are called RIO_****.bmp but when asked what was the official romanization they said "Lion".

[Klashikari]

Due to the fact 07th expansion is busy for the preparations for C81, we didn't nudged them that much about things, so we don't really have an "official" romanization for Siesta/Chiester.

This bring another point that concerns fans a bit more, but it is nowhere critical as the former issue: a specific name to "translate".
Warning: I would like that only people with remote japanese knowledge to answer this "survey". This concerns a late point of Episode 8, so you better have read it as well.

Spoiler for Ura Tea party, Episode 8:

As you probably know, Ange uses a pen name, 寿ゆかり - Kotobuki Yukari (we still don't have the reading for 寿, but most likely reading, that or Hisashi). However, if you look closely, Yukari was deliberately written in Hiragana, and could be converted into this kanji: 縁
Suffice to say, her name is 寿縁, which is a reversed order of kanji of Ange's first name, 縁寿.

Now that I'm done with the explanation, the issue at hand: how to handle it in English? it is obvious to say that "A N G E" won't be enough for a proper pen name, let alone in Japanese, so we have to tweek this matter, and we have 3 options:

1) Currently, Chrono opted for "Gean Otabe", which is reversing the order of syllabes for "Ange Beato". Conveniently, Otabe is a proper japanese name, but Gean is simply way too odd. I personally have trouble with "Beato" since she was never fiendly to her, but "Ange Beatrice" is hardly conveivable due to the new letters and the lack of O.

2) The solution I was thinking for few days was to change the whole deal into an anagram, and using "Ushiromiya Ange" instead, since the original wordplay was about Ange's human name.
This allows a huge deal of japanese first names. HOWEVER, the last names themselves are "japanese sounding" only, as I doubt many of them are correct japanese, unless we use the "prime example", "Shirogane Ayumi", which is quite... "cliche" to say it bluntly.
a non exhaustive list of possibilities can be seen below:

Spoiler for Possible Anagrams with Ushiromiya Ange:

-Shirogane Ayumi
-Suynaga Orihime
-Sunogayari Hime
-Yahirogumi Sena
-Yoshigune Maria
-Himegunori Saya
-Gushiromi Ayane
-Hisogane Mayuri
-Shiinagoya Yume
-Yamagune Shiori

Some syllabes can be switched, but most are hardly genuine japanese name (I'm not expert though, so if someone can prove me otherwise, feel free to do so). If you have other suggestions for this option, please be my guest.
Note that the lack of K, W and T makes the deal a tad annoying for last names... thank goodness there wasn't any B or V...

3) The "laziest" option: Keeping Kotobuki Yukari and explains it in a note file.
The principal argument for this option is to keep concistency with our translation choices done so far, especially the likes like Hachijou Tohya and her previously other pen name involving 18^18.
The only "drawback" of it was the fact it was never explained in the VN, but it wasn't really difficult to realize this trick, but from a romanization standpoint, it is nowhere close to possibly guess that.
The possible solution for this is that we can make an explanation similar to Hachijou's name when she describes she was found by Ikuko and Tohya , although it isn't in the original script so heh

If any of you have another option, please submit it as well. Either way, I would like answers and opinions about this issue as soon as possible. Please be sure to enclose your answer in spoiler tag, since it is still a spoiler for those who didn't read Episode 8 to the end.

[Jan-Poo]

Spoiler for Episode8 Ura Tea Party:

My opinion on the matter is to simply go with the "lazy" option. "Yukari Kotobuki" is the safest bet and an explanation wouldn't be harder for the average Umineko fan to understand than many other existent ones.

"Sayonara Zetsubo Sensei" is a prime example of that. I can't even imagine what it would have become if translators tried to render in english the pun of every name.

"Mirai Nikki" is another example. Some names are straightforward so there's no problem, but some others like "Yomotsu Hirasaka" can only be understood if you have a proper knowledge of the language. Still if a character is called "Yomotsu Hirasaka" you leave it as it is, no point in changing it into "Hades" or "Pluto".

In Umineko we already have "Berune" and "Asune" who won't make any bell ring without a basic knowledge of kana and Kanji (or an explanation).

So basically these are my reasons to stick with "Yukari Kotobuki"

[rogerpepitone]

Spoiler:

"Gean" is awful, but "Jean" is okay.
Optionally romanize "Ange" as "Anje".

[LordMune]

Spoiler for Ura Tea party, Episode 8:

I greatly prefer keeping "Kotobuki Yukari" over any lingual gymnastics attempting to emulate an implied Japanese anagram.

---

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

that's a different matter. How they call the files is simply something that they use for their own convenience not something that the readers are supposed to see and use as reference.

For example "Lion"'s files are called RIO_****.bmp but when asked what was the official romanization they said "Lion".

I kind of want to declare the death of the author re: romanizations precisely because they're willfully/negligently inconsistent. Siesta is a better romanization of the original Japanese than Chiester is.

All in all Chiester is a bad name, as it somehow manages to insult the reader's intelligence (it's winchester GET IT) while also adding a token corruption of a single letter that makes little sense and brings nothing to the table.

And that's all I have to say about it.

[UsagiTenpura]

Spoiler for Arc8:

Heh.... Yoshigune Maria sure would make it fitting Imo.
I like your ideas Klash, I don't exactly mind Gean Otabe, but "Ange Beato" makes a sorta lame name.

[LyricalAura]

Spoiler for EP8 Ura Tea Party:

As much fun as trying to come up with appropriate anagrams is, I'm on the side of sticking with Kotobuki Yukari. Besides the points other people already made, changing it will just create needless confusion between new readers and people who read spoilers or the original Japanese.

Though I do like Yasugane Hiromi (安金拡実) as an alias for plot reasons.

[UsagiTenpura]

Spoiler for Arc 8:

Is the majority of people actually aware of such spoilers tho? I'd think not. Chrono wanted to avoid having to do a "lenghty boring explanation" about it, which is really needed.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by UsagiTenpura

Spoiler for Arc8:

Heh.... Yoshigune Maria sure would make it fitting Imo.
I like your ideas Klash, I don't exactly mind Gean Otabe, but "Ange Beato" makes a sorta lame name.

Spoiler for Episode 8 Ura Tea Party:

That's the one I would avoid at all costs.

It would give the impression that Ange named herself after her cousin Maria, which she could have done, and that would fit, but ultimately she didn't do that. And whatever were her reasons when she chose the name "Yukari Kotobuki" homaging her deceased cousin wasn't one.

[matteas]

Spoiler for EP8, Ura Tea Party:

I vote for the "lazy" option too. I have two reasons for that. The first is the consistency. Having one character bear two or more names depending on the language is something which, in my opinion, should be avoided in most cases, if possible.

The second reason is that whilst it doesn't require any extra deep thinking in Japanese to realize that the kanji for 縁寿 can be read "yukari kotobuki", and then you only have to switch the positions, it's much harder to solve an anagram in romaji. If you opt for, let's say Shirogane Ayumi, which seems to me as the most natural sounding name out of the listed possibilities, the reader will have to play with the name a bit in order to "get it", and I wonder how many people would realize that the name itself is yet another riddle to be solved.

It needs to be said, however, that the second option is really smart. When it comes to smartness, I find it the best out of the three.

[Bluemail]

Spoiler for EP8 ????:

I think keeping the original name is the safest bet... I'm one of the people who heard the name only through spoilers in this forum, though. But Kotobuki Yukari already feels somehow familiar, and it doesn't seem to need as long explanation as Itouikukuro Reigonamu. It's just the kanji reversed and one of them turned to hiragana, right? Well if people don't know what kanji or hiragana are, it might get a bit longer, but anyway. I'd be fine with a Grimoire explanation, but I don't mind if you sneak in a couple of lines of your own.

I do like some of your suggestions like Yoshigune Maria for plot reasons (but I don't know if Ange would use that name out of respect or dare not to). Does Yoshigune mean anything? Yasugane Hiromi sounds fun as well. But does Ange know about Yasu's name? Would it just be a coincidence? "Cheap gold" might be fitting anyway (well those with no japanese knowledge might not spot the "gane"). Hiromi might be translated as something like "broad truth", right? Jean/Gean Otobe is a bit weird and indeed Ange Beato as the source sounds lame.

You don't have a real english version of "heso kande shinjaeba~" either. It's not really anything important. But I just thought up yesterday that something like "disappear forever" could work (foreva~)!

I don't know what to do with Chiesters. I've also thought that it's too easy to figure out if it's going to be romanized that way. And Siesta is what I got used to. But it seems to be the official romanization, and makes more sense that Siesta in the end, especially for those who don't know about japanese spelling.

I feel bad for spoiling so much of EP8 for myself already, but I'm sure there's still many reasons to enjoy the real thing at last. Can't wait for the weekend!
Witch Hunt, the best of luck with reaching the finishing line after all your hard work!

[RedKey]

Originally Posted by matteas

Spoiler for EP8, Ura Tea Party:

I vote for the "lazy" option too. I have two reasons for that. The first is the consistency. Having one character bear two or more names depending on the language is something which, in my opinion, should be avoided in most cases, if possible.

The second reason is that whilst it doesn't require any extra deep thinking in Japanese to realize that the kanji for 縁寿 can be read "yukari kotobuki", and then you only have to switch the positions, it's much harder to solve an anagram in romaji. If you opt for, let's say Shirogane Ayumi, which seems to me as the most natural sounding name out of the listed possibilities, the reader will have to play with the name a bit in order to "get it", and I wonder how many people would realize that the name itself is yet another riddle to be solved.

It needs to be said, however, that the second option is really smart. When it comes to smartness, I find it the best out of the three.

My thoughts exactly.

[zorahk]

Spoiler for Ep 8 survey:

Translations have a duty to be faithful to the original. The only option which is therefore acceptable is option 3, the lazy option.

[UsagiTenpura]

Spoiler for arc 8:

In a way a name that would keep the (almost exact) spirit of it would be something like G. Anne.

Uh... Or Jill Anne, but that might be a bit more fetched. Anne Jill = Angel, what Ange means

[Kishin]

It feels like watching a conversation between people using sign language.... I don't dare click the spoiler button...