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Old 2018-04-20, 12:04   Link #21
Twi
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They came back of their own free will and knew what they were getting into. That was their decision.
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Old 2018-04-20, 12:55   Link #22
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Originally Posted by OH&S View Post
Fair enough, but even if these issues are addressed in another 600 chapters (your words, not mine) it won't change the fact that for this arc and the YEAR OF SANJI, Oda has ruined Sanji for the foreseeable future.
Who says the year of Sanji is over now? The Germa will probably still be addressed in the coming chapters.

Iím getting tired of seeing all these hypocritical complaints, remember Nami and Robinís arcs? They didnít get any major fights during those points either and their crowing moments came from something other than fighting.

There forum post are starting to get more and more unbearable with all these wannabe critics over something we donít know where it is going.
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Old 2018-04-20, 15:09   Link #23
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We finally get to the Wano arc. Of course we might get a few flashback chapters to get the full scope of what happened in this chapter.
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Old 2018-04-20, 18:17   Link #24
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Originally Posted by Jmariofan7 View Post
Who says the year of Sanji is over now? The Germa will probably still be addressed in the coming chapters.
The Reverie Arc is confirmed to begin in the next chapter. Any mention of Germa will be in passing. You can't keep indefinitely extending the Year of Sanji beyond WCI arc. The ending of this chapter is supposed to bookend this.

Quote:
Iím getting tired of seeing all these hypocritical complaints, remember Nami and Robinís arcs? They didnít get any major fights during those points either and their crowing moments came from something other than fighting.
TL;DR…
You couldn't be more wrong
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Quote:
There forum post are starting to get more and more unbearable with all these wannabe critics over something we donít know where it is going.
Empty words: hypocritical complaints; wannabe critics, etc.

It's called a differing opinion and as you can tell, I'm not unique in my opinion. I know full well what the argument supporting Sanji is but it seems the argument against is being turned into a straw man by folks in your camp.
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Old 2018-04-20, 20:17   Link #25
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pudding how could you ;A;
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Old 2018-04-20, 21:15   Link #26
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It looks more like Pudding kept a copy of the memory of their kiss as a memento.

And while she's in genuine tears as a result of the departure, she might feel a lot worse once she finds out Reiju was the only one of Sanji's blood family that's been decent to him. Of course, she has no way of knowing that.
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Old 2018-04-21, 11:46   Link #27
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Well, I'm certainly happy to move on to a new arc finally, but this one still doesn't seem over yet. It might take a few years to get back to these characters though...

I don't share most of the sentiment here about Sanji's Arc though. I don't really think that phrase translates to him having some kind of major fight. I think it's more about his character development and we certainly got a boat load of that. Most of which I liked quite a bit. I would have liked to see him fight Smoothie but I don't think it hurts his character or anything like that.

I do think this arc seriously nerfs Big Mom though. Looking back on it all, she doesn't seem as impressive as most of the Warlords were in previous arcs. I'm sure her raw strength or whatever is above them on a technical level, but in terms of the actual story, I felt she was a let down. She kept getting tricked and thwarted and sent on an almost endless chase. I guess we will get a better fight with her later on though.
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Old 2018-04-21, 17:42   Link #28
judasmartel
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We will definitely get a real fight vs Big Mom later on in the story. For now, we have the Reverie Arc and the much-awaited Wano Arc.
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Old 2018-04-22, 09:57   Link #29
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BTW, doesn't Nami still have Zeus with her? If so, she's got herself quite a nice temporary power-up until the final battle with Big Mom arrives!
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Old 2018-04-22, 11:06   Link #30
Jmariofan7
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
I do think this arc seriously nerfs Big Mom though. Looking back on it all, she doesn't seem as impressive as most of the Warlords were in previous arcs. I'm sure her raw strength or whatever is above them on a technical level, but in terms of the actual story, I felt she was a let down. She kept getting tricked and thwarted and sent on an almost endless chase. I guess we will get a better fight with her later on though.
This again, Big Mom, first off, was weakened from being starved this whole time (and if my theory of her actually eating that same drug that the children on Punk Hazard did this whole time is correct, then itís definitely more than that) secondly Big Mom wasnít thinking straight due to her ďhunger painsĒ kicking inĒ, one of the points of this arc was to reveal Big Momís fatal weakness and that her monstrous power wasnít as ďnaturalĒ as it seemed (again referring to the whole drug thing). We havenít even seen what is going to happen now.
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Old 2018-04-22, 12:41   Link #31
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
Well, I'm certainly happy to move on to a new arc finally, but this one still doesn't seem over yet. It might take a few years to get back to these characters though...

I don't share most of the sentiment here about Sanji's Arc though. I don't really think that phrase translates to him having some kind of major fight. I think it's more about his character development and we certainly got a boat load of that. Most of which I liked quite a bit. I would have liked to see him fight Smoothie but I don't think it hurts his character or anything like that.
Thing is though, Sanji doesn't really develop. We certainly learn more about his character, but character development is about how characters grow and change, and Sanji's comes out of this arc as pretty much the same character he was before it began. This kind of echo's what OH&S was saying about Nami, Robin and Ace; the characters grew from their experiences

What did Sanji really learn through this arc and how has he changed?

His relationship with his family is still extremely poor; you could argue that its SLIGHTLY better than it was before, but that's not saying much. Sanji went from hating his family to realizing he didn't hate him enough for him to want them to die. And his family went from hating him to thinking that maybe he's not COMPLETELY worthless.

His relationship with the strawhats? Well he learned that he shouldn't its not a good idea to sacrifice himself, but that's really more do to the fact that Big Mom was gonna kill them all anyway. And really when it comes to self-sacrifice, we already heard that story before with Robin, and that story was A LOT more potent. The whole reason why Robin thought it was good idea to sacrifice herself is because she felt like her life had no value; She truly believe the straw hats would be better off and happier without her. The strawhats coming to rescue her opened her eyes and made her realize her own self worth which is what made "I want to live" such a touching moment... Sanji does not get anything close to that


What do I think should have happened... Not sure.
I mean first i think they should have dropped the self-sacrifice bit. Sanji should know from past experiences that the strawhats would never accept such a thing and he himself would never accept any other member of the crew doing it. It feels like it would have been better if he actually STUCK to the idea of getting back to his crew. The fight between him and Luffy just felt so dumb. Heck a lot of trouble could have been avoided if he only faked a fight with Luffy, long enough to slip him a message about the situation; then Luffy wouldn't have gotten himself captured forcing Sanji into an even more tight situation. I guess the ultimate lesson here would be that Sanji shouldn't try to go it on his own just because he wants to keep his friends uninvolved because he could actually cause even MORE trouble and learn to rely on his friends instead; his problems are their problems.

As for his family, I think it would have been better if they either truly acknowlegded him, or if it turned out that Sanji learned something new about his family that changed his outlook on them. I think it would have also helped if their was more depth to Judge and his ambitions. Like his desire to restore the family kingdom had somekind of sympathetic element to it which is what drove him to be so hard on his family. It could lead to Sanji seeing his father in a different light, and add that to his family learning to appreciate him... the point is that A lot of snaji's past problems feel like they are dealt with

Another Idea i had was like what if Sanji never knew how much Renju cared about him. Like what if she never took part in teasing and bullying him as a kid but also never got close to him out of social pressure and she dismissed his acts of kindness... The result is that when he ran away he inadvertently left Renju all alone with their horrible family. Not only does sanji learn things he didn't know about his family, but it could even play into what he's dealing with the strawhats; the idea that if he didn't make it back they would feel hurt, and that sometimes its best to deal with terrible situations together



Overall, I agree with detractors that this didn't feel like the year of Sanji... Sanji did get focus, but i don't think he got the development he needed for this arc to really shine. Its like a lot of really great ideas, that didn't quite stick the landing. And overall good arc, but not even close to being one of the best
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Old 2018-04-22, 13:46   Link #32
Jmariofan7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OH&S View Post
The Reverie Arc is confirmed to begin in the next chapter. Any mention of Germa will be in passing. You can't keep indefinitely extending the Year of Sanji beyond WCI arc. The ending of this chapter is supposed to bookend this.



TL;DR…
You couldn't be more wrong
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?



Empty words: hypocritical complaints; wannabe critics, etc.

It's called a differing opinion and as you can tell, I'm not unique in my opinion. I know full well what the argument supporting Sanji is but it seems the argument against is being turned into a straw man by folks in your camp.

Do you even know what “Straw Man” actually means? Because when you’re judging something before seeing where it is going that falls into straw manning.

There’s the “opinion shield”. There is a difference between opinions based on facts and “facts” based on opinions (and then there is “mob mentality”), with you’re arguments falling into the latter, you’re ignoring several key things, first off, the Vinsmoke sons were modified to lack emotions in Sora’s womb thanks to Judge so I don’t think cooking was going to help that much, Judge, well... it’s a bit unclear for him at this point. Plus that wouldn’t erase all of their horrible actions (with on screen ones such as beating up the poor maid woman and their treatment of women, and what Niji did on broccoli island, Niji in general being the worst of the Vinsmoke sons) nor resolve the whole Sora and Germa history conflict (which was hinted by Judge’s song when fighting BM), due to the situation with the BM pirates this arc it couldn’t be fully addressed, it’s like in FMA where Ed and Ling are stuck with Envy in Gluttony’s stomach and forced to work together with the ***hole but afterwards the conflict resumed.

Regarding the cake, again we haven’t seen where it is going with this or if it has taken full affect on BM yet, you can’t judge something that hasn’t come full circle yet.

As for the year of Sanji, says who? Nintendo extended the year of Luigi for a bit so I don’t see why the Germa won’t follow the SH into Wano, go check out this youtuber called Joy Boy, he makes these great analysis and theory videos and one of them is that he speculates that the Germa might kidnap Pudding to get back at Sanji.

Said videos are here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FIRs6vcyhXg

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tbi3rRKEDs8

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3ubBkrpRtp4

Opinion has become extremely distorted on the internet, this website satires it perfectly: https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Opinion

(Ignore the vulgar language and profanities)
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Old 2018-04-23, 00:37   Link #33
Jmariofan7
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Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
1. Thing is though, Sanji doesn't really develop. We certainly learn more about his character, but character development is about how characters grow and change, and Sanji's comes out of this arc as pretty much the same character he was before it began.

2. What did Sanji really learn through this arc and how has he changed?

3. As for his family, I think it would have been better if they either truly acknowlegded him, or if it turned out that Sanji learned something new about his family that changed his outlook on them. I think it would have also helped if their was more depth to Judge and his ambitions. Like his desire to restore the family kingdom had somekind of sympathetic element to it which is what drove him to be so hard on his family. It could lead to Sanji seeing his father in a different light, and add that to his family learning to appreciate him... the point is that A lot of snaji's past problems feel like they are dealt with

4. Overall, I agree with detractors that this didn't feel like the year of Sanji... Sanji did get focus, but i don't think he got the development he needed for this arc to really shine. Its like a lot of really great ideas, that didn't quite stick the landing. And overall good arc, but not even close to being one of the best

1. Character Development means expansion of a character, which we got from Sanji this arc with more of his backstory.

2. He learned more about his mother and Reiju and what his mother actually did, and the truth of why his brothers are such sociopaths, also people are forgetting that it hasn’t been fully confirmed that Sanji dosen’t have any powers, they may simply have been dormant but thankfully Sanji was able to retain his emotions and empathy.

3. Again, you’re forgetting the whole “Vinsmoke Sons had their emotions and empathy repressed by Judges modifications” fisade, this is easier said than done. The problems are not dealt with, we still don’t know the whole history of Germa, Judge gave a hint about that during his scuffle with BM with that song. I think Luffy might give a lecture to Sanji the same way he did to Momosuki about being a king/ruler, the SH haven’t been given the full story from Sanji about his past yet so I think that might go down.
We don’t know if we’re going to jump right into Wano after Reverie, didn’t Zoro and the others have to go find Marco and the WB pirates first? I think between Reverie and Wano we might get a interlude or even a mini arc delving into the Sanji thing a bit more.

4. Can I ask a question to the whole website, was the whole “year of Sanji” ever an official thing? Nintendo’s former president the late Satori Iwata, came on stage and announced the Year of Luigi with even a official banner and him wearing the Luigi cap in his announcements throughout the year.
IIRC Oda never announced the “Year of Sanji”, one of the editors or assistants “apparently” said this only once and this led to the fans making a lot of wanking, and it’s debatable on wether this was simply a poor choice of words or a straight up mistranslation.

All of this arc’s complaints seem to be based on misinformation and misinterpreted hype, like how people jumped to conclusions and incorrectly assumed the arc was over when the Whole Cake Castle collapsed, ignoring the fact that the cast was still in BM’s large multi island territory.
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Old 2018-04-23, 08:59   Link #34
OH&S
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Originally Posted by Jmariofan7
<snip>
Are we really doing this? Alrighty...

TL;DR…
Jesus Burgess
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

As a balance to my points about Sanji, I just wanted to point out that I thoroughly enjoyed everything else about the arc; probably more than most people.
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Old 2018-04-25, 19:52   Link #35
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Are we really doing this? Alrighty...

TL;DR…
Jesus Burgess
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

As a balance to my points about Sanji, I just wanted to point out that I thoroughly enjoyed everything else about the arc; probably more than most people.
Encyclopedia Dramatica, while can be really vulgar, offensive and have gross out material at times; but they aren’t being serious when it comes to that, it does give good commentary and satire which they have actual sources on, just check out the pages on America, Anime haters and Athiests.

But I understand a lot of your points, but the part about the cake again is debatable, here’s my theory on how it’s going to go down: Sanji’s cake was so delicious that it caused BM to loose her addiction to the NHC10 drug which I theorize Strusen has been feeding her this whole time and is the cause of her “hunger pains” and her massive strength, and BM instead gets obsessed with Sanji’s cooking (once Pudding, I believe, gives BM Pudding’s memories of Sanji making the cake) and starts to slowly loss interest in Strusen’s “secret recipe” which is bad for Strusen and her because without the Drug she’ll loose all her strength and because she has been consuming it for so long, she’ll die without it.
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Old 2018-04-25, 22:57   Link #36
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And where exactly is it mentioned that Big Mom is on the NHC10 drug? She's had that Eating Disorder and Insane Strength ever since she was a five year old, there's no way she could have been ingesting the drug unless it got mentioned in-story.

Those children that Caesar was experimenting on don't have anything to do with Big Mom's eating disorder except for the NHC10 withdrawal symptoms, and that's solely in relation to the drug itself.
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Old 2018-04-25, 23:22   Link #37
Jmariofan7
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And where exactly is it mentioned that Big Mom is on the NHC10 drug? She's had that Eating Disorder and Insane Strength ever since she was a five year old, there's no way she could have been ingesting the drug unless it got mentioned in-story.

Those children that Caesar was experimenting on don't have anything to do with Big Mom's eating disorder except for the NHC10 withdrawal symptoms, and that's solely in relation to the drug itself.
Again this is a theory, and it’s based on some apparent foreshadowing, the fact that BM is supposed to be a normal human yet at five years old she was able to fatally wound a experienced old warrior giant says something, it’s possible that she may have been one of Vegapunk’s experiments on giganticifcation and had to be left by her parents on Elbaf, as for getting the drug itself, I think that Caramel took her in, at some point she found out about the truth behind Linlin and when they started to serve those cream pastries in Elbaf, Caramel put some of the drug in Linlin’s servings and after fasting for a few days and not getting the drug, she has her freak out. Caramel puts some more of the drug in Linlin’s food at her birthday celebration on the pre-formed Totland, as we saw on Punk Hazard the drug also causes hallucinations, so I assume that’s part of how she ended up eating Caramel and her friends. I think Strusen May have somehow found out this information and when he became Linlin’s chef he put the drug in every one of her meals.

Also you’re forgetting that the children didn’t just have withdrawal they started to go on a rampage and become extremely aggressive when they didn’t get the drug and the way Linlin rampaged on Elbaf is extremely similar.

Also considering she has the Soul Soul fruit which can extent her lifespan, that particular life shortening side effect of the drug isn’t an issue for her, but she has been ingesting the drug for so long that it caused her body to depend on it, she’ll die without the drug.
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Old 2018-04-25, 23:29   Link #38
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OH&S

I’m so sorry if I came off like this, but I tend to get worked up when term straw man gets dropped on me, I simply wanted to know if this whole “Year of Sanji” thing was an actual official thing or just completely misunderstood hype, and the link you gave still didn’t really patch that up, because Oda himself never said this, the person who said it was either the commenter or Sanji’s voice actor and again he apparently only said it once so it’s still depatable on wether this was simply a poor choice of words or not, leading to incorrect hype.
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Old 2018-04-26, 07:49   Link #39
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BTW, doesn't Nami still have Zeus with her? If so, she's got herself quite a nice temporary power-up until the final battle with Big Mom arrives!
But how Nami will treat Zeus? Will she really threat him everyday with discharging lightning?
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Old 2018-04-26, 08:10   Link #40
OH&S
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Originally Posted by Jmariofan7
<snip>
This should be the last exchange as I think we can reach an understanding.

TL;DR…
for space
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

I'm mentally exhausted now. I've said everything I've needed to say.

Now I'm just going to forget about Sanji and direct my thoughts to the upcoming Reverie Arc in the next chapter. I can't wait!

Chapter 903 Thread
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Last edited by OH&S; 2018-04-26 at 08:25. Reason: spelling and grammer
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