Guilty Crown - Episode 15 Discussion / Poll

[Soji]

Originally Posted by dark998

Wow, the second part of this episode...just wow. Watching the entire sequence of Hare slowly dying and using her last breath to fix up Shu was too much.

But the following scenes were even more impressive, Shu taking Inori's sword by force and proceeding to annihilate Daryl and his buddies (because no chance in hell that was a fight).

Now Im guessing Inori will take the role to mend up Shu so he can attain a balance between the tyrant side and the Shu before Hare's death.

I agree with you here.especially the last part and the ED seem to confirm this.
If you guys look closely you see all his friend disappear one by one with a emo shu(i suppose this it's a good way to say this) and Hare by the last one to disappear. When in the anime she is the first one to die, now I wonder if this is the sequence and they will die o let him alone in that way. But the thing that I notice is ..Inori is the one that pul him out and force him to run with her and in the end he is the one tu pull her.
I think this is the true meaning of the ED.

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by FateAnomaly

It doesn't make much sense. Souta's opening void is incredibly useful. Maybe he personally can't use it well but it is still nevertheless a very useful void so there should be no reason it got the lowest rank.

Souta can only used his void to open can goods right now even though Shu can use it to open doors and such.

I remember when GC was just starting that an interview was made and said that void powers depend on the bond between Shu and the one he extracts the void with. Though it looks like the power that Shu gets is dependent on himself or his emotions and not solely in bonds. But though with the void ranking showing up. It kinda shows that it reflects on the others who uses his own void.

Souta even though he was a friend of Shu. Shu doesn't really understand him much and doesn't like his attitude. It was already revealed in the episode in the past. Thus even though it looks like they are friends they aren't really that close. I mean Souta was super idiotic to believe in the void ranking even though he is a friend of Shu. Which further more makes it believable that those 2 aren't really close to each other because Souta didn't trust Shu when he specifically just said it last night about the void ranking and his thoughts about it. He just forget about that talk and jump to stupid conclusions thanks to that piece of paper. If Souta trust Shu and believes that they are indeed friends then he won't be stupid enough to misunderstood and jump to such stupid conclusions.

All and all Souta is stupid and should have died instead of HARE

If I where Shu I would hack Souta with my big bad sword and just said pretend and said "I slip my hands, well because you are stupid enough to stand in front of me"

Souta is stupid Souta is stupid Souta is stupid Souta is stupid Souta is stupid

[ookamigirl]

Tough times form Shu and his classmates.
They set up a nice system, but problems piled up.
It was pretty sad watching Hare die... but at least it wasn't in wain.
Shu in angry mode was pretty impressive.

[Morisato]

Don't know why Inori suddenly decided to not let Shu pull out her void. That "rape" scene seemed forced.

[Endscape]

Nice episode, very dramatic. I'll give it 9/10.

The moral of today's episode is "Half-assing things will only lead to despair", tough message, it's a pity Hare had to die for it to get across. That girl really deserves a compliment though, she was a good person.

Souta on the other hand is a complete and total imbecile, as well as the people he dragged with him. I can understand being scared of discrimination based on rank, but the way he went about it was so stupid, it boggles the imagination. I can't remember the last time i was so infuriated at an anime character's stupidity.

Also, nice eyes from Shu there at the end. Whatever comes after, good or bad, it will at least be badass.

Originally Posted by Morisato

Don't know why Inori suddenly decided to not let Shu pull out her void. That "rape" scene seemed forced.

Can you blame her? Shu was standing over her with this completely blank look on his face, it's no wonder she was scared of him.

[Timeless Enigma]

Guys, I think the helicopter operators suffered from the Stormtrooper effect because the staff didn't want Hare blown into several meaty chunks from anti-tank rounds. But that doesn't really make sense to me, I that kind of macabre death would have been much more effective and overwhelming.

Edit:

@mangatron: Haha, I didn't even know Guilty Crown had a subforum until yesterday, I mainly lurk in the Nanoha fanfic thread, and that's about it. I don't bother posting in Ben-to because Ume basically blew the fandom apart.

Nice to see we have similar tastes though.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

Souta can only used his void to open can goods right now even though Shu can use it to open doors and such.

I remember when GC was just starting that an interview was made and said that void powers depend on the bond between Shu and the one he extracts the void with. Though it looks like the power that Shu gets is dependent on himself or his emotions and not solely in bonds. But though with the void ranking showing up. It kinda shows that it reflects on the others who uses his own void.

Souta even though he was a friend of Shu. Shu doesn't really understand him much and doesn't like his attitude. It was already revealed in the episode in the past. Thus even though it looks like they are friends they aren't really that close. I mean Souta was super idiotic to believe in the void ranking even though he is a friend of Shu. Which further more makes it believable that those 2 aren't really close to each other because Souta didn't trust Shu when he specifically just said it last night about the void ranking and his thoughts about it. He just forget about that talk and jump to stupid conclusions thanks to that piece of paper. If Souta trust Shu and believes that they are indeed friends then he won't be stupid enough to misunderstood and jump to such stupid conclusions.

It's not like Souta was wrong. Sure, Shu didn't want to use the system. And hadn't decided to... yet. But he was sorely tempted. Because their back was against the wall. Because Yahiro and the old president were pushing for it. And also, I think, because it'd take the responsibility of everyone's rank off his hands. Instead of saying "you're a gopher because I, Shu, think you suck", it'd be "you're a gopher because this machine says you are. Sorry, nothing I can do. I absolutely don't think any less of you."

All and all Souta is stupid and should have died instead of HARE

If I where Shu I would hack Souta with my big bad sword and just said pretend and said "I slip my hands, well because you are stupid enough to stand in front of me"

Souta is stupid Souta is stupid Souta is stupid Souta is stupid Souta is stupid

Blaming Souta occults Shu's share of the blame. He took her (and himself) in the field without proper backup. That was totally irresponsible. Souta was desperate. What was Shu's excuse?

Originally Posted by Endscape

Nice episode, very dramatic. I'll give it 9/10.

The moral of today's episode is "Half-assing things will only lead to despair", tough message, it's a pity Hare had to die for it to get across. That girl really deserves a compliment though, she was a good person.

She was. But in a way, she was also an enabler for Shu's wishy washyness.

Souta on the other hand is a complete and total imbecile, as well as the people he dragged with him. I can understand being scared of discrimination based on rank, but the way he went about it was so stupid, it boggles the imagination. I can't remember the last time i was so infuriated at an anime character's stupidity.

That wasn't stupidity. It was desperation. They would absolutely die if they didn't get medicine, and they couldn't count on Shu to provide it - even if that's what he wanted to do, he was too indecisive.

Originally Posted by Timeless Enigma

Guys, I think the helicopter operators suffered from the Stormtrooper effect because the staff didn't want Hare blown into several meaty chunks from anti-tank rounds. But that doesn't really make sense to me, I that kind of macabre death would have been much more effective and overwhelming.

I don't know. I don't think it's that easy or worthwhile to aim an helicopter.



Also, I still think the void ranking system is bullshit. Slaves have a clear hierarchy, but they're not reputed for working hard. While the need for a clear hierarchy is debatable and probably depends on circumstances, what's really needed for people to work hard is the ability to affect their circumstances through their work and the results they bring. They have to hope to better their situation, and fear worsening it.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Blaming Souta occults Shu's share of the blame. He took her (and himself) in the field without proper backup. That was totally irresponsible. Souta was desperate. What was Shu's excuse?

That argument ought to be reversed. Shu was desperate to go and save them before they got themselves killed. The situation wasn't near desperate enough yet for Souta to pull such a stupid stunt. At the very least, he should have waited until Shu actually did what he thought he would do before trying that.

That wasn't stupidity. It was desperation. They would absolutely die if they didn't get medicine, and they couldn't count on Shu to provide it - even if that's what he wanted to do, he was too indecisive.

The idea of going to get more medicine itself wasn't bad. The execution though was total bullshit. I mean, they were running around on the street, out in the open without a care in the world, carrying around some F-rank Voids they could barely use like they were missile launchers.

What's really sad here is that Shu probably would have gone to get the vaccine himself, and he would have done it properly.

[D-Gold]

I am kind of disappointed to see that Shu's berserk mode vs the solders didn't last longer. I mean they just killed Hare I WANT TO SEE STUFF BLOWN UP AND MORE SOLDIERS SUFFERING.

*goes to re-watch Souta getting punched.*

[com_gwp]

Sigh, anyone who didn't see the plot twist coming from a mile away needs to watch more shows

Time to place bets on who's the next person on the chopping board. Souta? I can clearly see the writer pulling him into some guilt-ridden sacrifice end.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Also, I still think the void ranking system is bullshit. Slaves have a clear hierarchy, but they're not reputed for working hard. While the need for a clear hierarchy is debatable and probably depends on circumstances, what's really needed for people to work hard is the ability to affect their circumstances through their work and the results they bring. They have to hope to better their situation, and fear worsening it.

I don't quite agree with what you're saying here. Simply put, with a group as large as their's, without a proper organisational structure in place, working like that creates all kinds of inefficiency within the group, including parallel working, conflict and communications that just goes everywhere and never anywhere (aka what the episode was in fact trying to show us but failed miserably at).

It is true that a Hierarchy system is probably one of the easiest to implement (And fitting, considering the hostile environment that are in), and with a ranking system based on power or utility, you can separate the useful (Hare magic bandaids, Weapons, Decoy Maker) from the useless (Fridge, comb, vase, etc.) and then assign them the proper jobs that would get the most utility out of them. Plus, the void abilities are much easier to rank than, say, physical strength, intellect, or experience, which usually comes into play in such a hierarchy system.

The problem why it might not seem viable to you is because Souta's void is actually useful (Based on previous episodes) but classified as a rank F, probably as a result of the writers needing a more important character to stand as the conflicting viewpoint in this episode, which screws with what is the actual criteria being used in the ranking system is.



I actually wished they explored more into the Hierarchy system and its pros and cons instead of just going back to damned forced character DORAMA. Since the turning point of the series it could have made a great study into the mentality of society and organisations given the setting (Episode 14, that social breakdown progression was pretty good). But hey, I almost forgot we're talking about guilty crown here, with incestous yandere oneechans and void drawing orgasms.

Edit: Oh yes, my actual opinions on the episode, right? It wasn't that bad apart from how everything went so predictably down in the 2nd half. But it was executed well enough, I guess, so that the need for the system actually shows somewhat (to get people to do what they're suppose to do instead of running amuk on their own)

[crazypeter]

I am speechless and I give 10 out of 10. I just wonder why Souta and other classmates can find the void level list. It should be kept secretly. Shu fled into rage and punched Souta, he seemed to forget that he killed Yahiro brother and he owed to Yashiro.

Hare wished Shu could be a gentle and soft king but she failed to transmit her wish to Shu. What a pity. It seems that we can tell what 'guilty crown' is. Mana and Hare, my favorite characters, kick the bucket~

Look at High School D×D, Asia， an HOT who is the same with Hare, was killed but revived~XD

[mangatron]

Originally Posted by Timeless Enigma

@mangatron: Haha, I didn't even know Guilty Crown had a subforum until yesterday, I mainly lurk in the Nanoha fanfic thread, and that's about it. I don't bother posting in Ben-to because Ume basically blew the fandom apart.

Nice to see we have similar tastes though.

lol UmeUme.

Originally Posted by crazypeter

I am speechless and I give 10 out of 10. I just wonder why Souta and other classmates can find the void level list.

I forgot to mention about this.

But if I recall correctly (somehow I cannot see the ep a second time), they simply found it in the trash. Dare I say Shoe tossed it in the trash after deciding against it?

[Ravenblitz]

wow really.. this is the first time i'm looking forward to a GC episode! 9/10!

RIP Hare...

[mangatron]

^--The first time you're looking forward to a GC episode?

Ever since Haruka showed up I've been looking forward to more GC eps in the hopes of seeing her. Where is she anyways....

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Until he pulls out his own Void...whatever it is...

A giant shoe that flattens all in its path maybe....or a giant shoe that runs away real fast

But a King only is as good as his kingdom, which includes his subjects. Take them out, and he's nothing but.... a black knight

But I vote for the giant shoe

[~Yami~]

summary so far :


void ranking system --> Shu's uncertainty---> Souta's dumb decision --> Souta's and his coward group try to act cool ---> Souta's bad order to Hare --> Hare's gallant sacrifice --> Shu's broke down --> now... dark age in school... tyranny Shu with badass long coat....

Originally Posted by Endscape

That argument ought to be reversed. Shu was desperate to go and save them before they got themselves killed. The situation wasn't near desperate enough yet for Souta to pull such a stupid stunt. At the very least, he should have waited until Shu actually did what he thought he would do before trying that.

agree.... it's not Shu's fault... he already planned everything.... he tried to lure out everyone because he knows he won't die (you know?? he got "main character" power so he won't die )
everything is completely Souta's fault!!! that's all....

Originally Posted by Morisato

Don't know why Inori suddenly decided to not let Shu pull out her void. That "rape" scene seemed forced.

why do I think we will see this scene more and more in future episode.... maybe there'll be a real "rape" scene because of some students going against Shu... (hopefully Inori can fix Shu before he's doing a dumb decision)

can't blame Shu.... Hare got Shirley's treatment.... and now, Shu must act like Lelouch to gain his sane mind again....
oh~~ Code Geass plot


the only good thing in this episode is Daryl's comment.... so he's worrying about "that runt"

[Zach1]

Shu is like Joseph Stalin after his first wife died.
"This creature softened my heart of stone. She died and with her died my last warm feelings for humanity."

I hope Inori can bring him back into the light fast, having a bunch of eps with shu in angry darkness is gonna be depressing.

[FateAnomaly]

Originally Posted by crazypeter

Shu fled into rage and punched Souta, he seemed to forget that he killed Yahiro brother and he owed to Yashiro.

I don't like Shu but i don't think that is right. If anything Yahiro owes Shu. His brother is going to die 1 way or another and Shu only kill him earlier so Yahiro don't have to die.

[Jerseykid]

Bring Hare back right now. She was the only girl for Shu

[Guido]

The twist at the climax's end in this episode left me depressed more than shocked and made me forget the little incident with the three jerks against Inori from the previous episode.

Spoiler:

Hare, the cheerful heart that warmed to Shu, and whom he could confide was taken from him, and he only came to his senses after her death watching her literal final moments on this Earth.

Pretty much my hatred for the Anti-Bodies and the G.H.Q. has skyrocketed, and I can complete empathize with Gais' goals about wanting them all to be overthrown, expelled from Japan, and butchered like cattle if they're that stupid into always engaging with violence.

As for the Void ranking system, I wonder what Gai would have done if he was still living....

Spoiler:

He would likely have agreed to it for strategic purposes of new missions, and he would have shut up any complaints directed at the employment of the ranking because he was strong enough to be a King with commanding presence, which is something that before Hare died Shu lacked.

The thing is this King's philosophy and what he does for his people reminded me of Rider's episode from Fate/zero about the conversation he withheld with both Saber and Archer.

Spoiler:

It's not the King who gives his life away for his people, but the other way around. The King must be more ambitious, more greedy, and more joyous than all of his subjects combined.
The King fightS with his people and never regrets the legacy he leaves behind.

This is something which as until later Shu lacked for the resolve to be a true king whose mere presence alone delivers command to all his people (the students in this case) without questioning his (resolve).
This lacked of resolve made him indecisive about the attitude he should have taken at the ranking system which prompted Souta and others to foolishly wandered outside for the medicine in order for themselves to prove to be useful.
Unfortunately, that move triggered the sad chain of events leading to Hare's death, and, consequently, causing Shu to choose to follow the path of a Dark King in opposite to Hares' views on him as the King full of kindness.

[~Yami~]

yeah.... Shu's last statement about he become a king has two meanings actually :

1. He will erase all of his kindness and become a tyranny leader... spreading fear and maybe will disappoint all of his friends.... this will lead to a riot or betrayal in the school
this one will be likely happen because of Shu's original personality... He is only matured a bit after Gai's death

2. He will become like Gai... Still caring over his friends but not afraid to make a sacrifice... He will choose to be a more close-hearted person while maybe only Inori can stand beside him

one thing for sure, Shu will not become a kind king like what Hare's loved.

now, first he lost his friend's brother... then he lost his boss.... after that losing his childhood friends... what next??? Souta (his best friend) or Inori (his crush).....