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Old 2011-09-19, 20:37   Link #1
Kudryavka
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Time Limit on Reputations

I'm requesting that the requirement to give reputation to x number of other people before giving it to a certain person again be made circumventable by a time limit. I don't give out tons and tons of reputation, so I often end uo in the situation where the last time I repped User A was a year ago, yet I can't rep A again because I haven't repped, say, 10 other people. This would be avoided by implementing an expiration time, maybe two weeks to a month? Short enough to avoid the situation earlier described, yet long enough to prevent the abuse that the existing system was designed to discourage.

I'm not asking for the time limit as a replacement for the existing system, just as a secondary system. For example, I rep User A and need to rep 5 other people before repping A again, and the time limit is 14 days. By the thirteenth day, I have repped 4 other people, and see another post of A's that I'd like to rep. The next day, the counter would be reset for me repping A and I'd be able to rep him again, even though I didn't rep 5 different people.

I understand that such a thing may be nigh impossible for AS to implement, since it might not be in the forum code at all.
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Old 2011-09-19, 20:48   Link #2
Triple_R
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I'm inclined to agree with you on this.

I get the impression that the point of the current system is to encourage posters to generously rep a lot of people and not just rep the same 1 person to 4 people continuously.

However, it's been my experience that the first half of this usually doesn't happen (i.e. people searching for other people to rep so they can go back and rep a post they really want to rep), while the second half of this could be taken care of by your time limit suggestion alone.
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Old 2011-09-19, 21:39   Link #3
Vexx
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Aye, I've encountered the occasional post where I ended up having to roam around giving rep out simply because of this odd algorithm. I think its built into the forum software though. I'd be surprised if the admins took much time on it because (as the forum rules suggest) they don't take rep tooooo seriously

It would be nice if there were simply a time choke or perhaps just reduce the target count before the same target can be acquired again
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Old 2011-09-19, 23:54   Link #4
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I get the impression that the point of the current system is to encourage posters to generously rep a lot of people and not just rep the same 1 person to 4 people continuously.
This is exactly the point of the system. The downside is that for many users on the forum, they don't tend to stray outside of their niche areas much and thus aren't as "exposed" to posts from users outside of those areas. This in turn leads to people repping the same people often and then being forced to spread the rep around, sometimes by randomly picking people just to get around the limit.

Which is of course, exactly where this suggestion to change that comes from. I doubt we'll change it, as Vexx says we simply don't put much value on the system beyond "fluff" (since there's really nothing attached to the system that improves or hinders actual posting ability unless you're stupid enough to abuse it), and spreading rep around is healthy for the system. As it is, the system is exponential; the average rep power of a user on this board has doubled in the last few years, and a few of us are now nearing or are at the point of being completely capped.

Perhaps there's a way to add a way for users to rep multiple times but only the first rep actually counts until you've spread it around to other users. That way you can let someone know you liked their post but it prevents any potential abuse in the system. Just tossing that out there; I have no idea how feasible it is, and it might make the understanding of the system more confusing.
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Old 2011-09-20, 12:10   Link #5
felix
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The VM system does what the rep system does better; it also promotes conversations. I suppose it's awkward if you just want to +1 the other person's point but it's not like rep does it any better.

Per post rating would actually have meaning and would circumvent this entire problem. There are plenty of plugins for this out there for vB too, and the system is widely used and accepted in most social media out there. Unlike the reputation system which is nothing more then a glorified post count.
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Old 2011-09-21, 22:02   Link #6
Kudryavka
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@Solace If spreading the love is an intentional side effect, then I understand. But I am a bit frazzled that I can't rep two of the people on this very page who I don't even remember repping, it's been so long ago. Maybe felix's suggestion could be thought of?
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Old 2011-09-22, 00:53   Link #7
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komari View Post
@Solace If spreading the love is an intentional side effect, then I understand. But I am a bit frazzled that I can't rep two of the people on this very page who I don't even remember repping, it's been so long ago. Maybe felix's suggestion could be thought of?
According to your rep, two of the people in this thread you've given rep to in the last week, and one you gave roughly a month ago. I can sympathize with wanting to pos rep the same posters frequently if they make good posts, but the system is intentionally designed to prevent that so that it cannot be abused.

In the past we have had people intentionally manipulate the system to gain better rep or to harass other members, so you'll have to forgive us for being extremely hesitant to change the system in regards to how often you can give it to the same people.
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Old 2011-09-22, 03:32   Link #8
synaesthetic
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The other forum I spend far too much of my time on, xda-developers, has a different per-post reputation system implemented into the forum (and I'm pretty sure xda-developers also uses vBulletin).

Over at xda, they have a "Thanks" system in which you can essentially "Like" or "+1" (to use a social networking metaphor) a post that has helped you. This shows up in the poster's "Thanks Meter" and gives a general indication as to how helpful a poster is. The "Thanks" are also visible on the upranked post itself, as well as the names of all the people who upranked the post.

There is no "downrank" function in xda's "Thanks" system. To be honest I think this sort of system would work best on a forum more like xda, where people are trying to figure out issues with devices and solve problems than it does on asuki, which is almost purely a discussion board.

I still like the "Thanks" system though.
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Old 2011-09-22, 05:42   Link #9
felix
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It's heavily modified, but that's vB4.

The "Thanks!" system is actually a plugin, well there's actually several that do the exact same thing. There should be a v3 equivalent too. I believe I even suggested it to NW at one point.
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Old 2011-09-22, 09:53   Link #10
White Manju Bun
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Personally I dont like the Thanks system since I think it makes the thread looks a bit messy and cluttered since it's after every post someone makes. This is just my opinion based on a few forums I use that have this in place. I rarely ever thank a person for their post, if I agree with them I reply.
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Old 2011-09-22, 13:29   Link #11
Kusa-San
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The thanks system is not a bad idea. It would be better than the rep system if you ask me. The main problem I have with the actual system is you can bad rep someone and I don't like that all. Bad rep should be supress.
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Old 2011-09-22, 15:09   Link #12
felix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusa-San View Post
The thanks system is not a bad idea. It would be better than the rep system if you ask me. The main problem I have with the actual system is you can bad rep someone and I don't like that all. Bad rep should be supress.
Technically a negative opinion in the form of "disagreement" over an opinion/post is perfectly fine! The real evil here is the way the system currently works it's not directed at the message but instead at the person—a minor difference that changes it completely, hence why systems like this never caught on and only live as relics of the past, too embedded into the architecture to be changed easily.
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Old 2011-09-23, 02:21   Link #13
Hiroi Sekai
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Whilst it's a good idea, the rep system seems stable enough to me. This is why you shouldn't rep over every single thing that someone else does for you- save it for when they do something actually rep-worthy.

Someone takes the time to write a detailed response filled with information that they spent time looking for? Sure. A response to your easy "Yes or no" question? Don't do it. Plus, if it's another 10 people you need to rep before you can rep that person again, just let the person know that you're thankful for their help via PM or VM. If you truly want to give them rep, go back to the post they made and rep them for it when you can. It's not like it's going anywhere, right?
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Old 2011-09-23, 07:21   Link #14
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papermario13689 View Post
Someone takes the time to write a detailed response filled with information that they spent time looking for? Sure.
As someone who routinely posts lengthy replies to requests in the Suggestions forum, I can say with some experience that few of our members give rep for those efforts.

Sometimes I think I might stop posting in that forum, given the level of rudeness the posters generally display. Of course, that behavior isn't limited to AnimeSuki. I've had the same experience on technical forums where someone asks a question, I post a long detailed answer, and the OP never returns to the thread.

It's just rude, but then we don't seem to be doing a very job of training our children to be polite.
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Old 2011-09-23, 07:58   Link #15
Kusa-San
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
Technically a negative opinion in the form of "disagreement" over an opinion/post is perfectly fine! The real evil here is the way the system currently works it's not directed at the message but instead at the person—a minor difference that changes it completely, hence why systems like this never caught on and only live as relics of the past, too embedded into the architecture to be changed easily.
A good solution will be to supress the bad rep system and keep the good rep one. With this system we could add a "agree or disagree" post system.

The good rep system is for the poster when the other one is for the post.
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Old 2011-09-23, 08:09   Link #16
felix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusa-San View Post
A good solution will be to supress the bad rep system and keep the good rep one. With this system we could add a "agree or disagree" post system.

The good rep system is for the poster when the other one is for the post.
The thing is, good or bad, just doesn't apply to people. You can't just throw a label around, since there's no way to objectively quantify "goodness" just as you can't put labels and stereotypes on people; of course we adhere to the negative being bad easier then the positive being equally bad. And that's what the rep system does in the end, it gives you a little title/message based on a number.

It fails as a "gift system" too. Since it's anonymous and also not public on posts.
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Old 2011-09-23, 08:16   Link #17
Kusa-San
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
The thing is, good or bad, just doesn't apply to people. You can't just throw a label around, since there's no way to objectively quantify "goodness" just as you can't put labels and stereotypes on people; of course we adhere to the negative being bad easier then the positive being equally bad. And that's what the rep system does in the end, it gives you a little title/message based on a number.

It fails as a "gift system" too. Since it's anonymous and also not public on posts.
I'm not sure to undertand what you're trying to say ? Here is how I see it :

The good rep system should be used to say that you like this poster and his posts.

The post system could be used to say that you agree or not with his post.

It's not the same thing.
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Old 2011-09-23, 09:13   Link #18
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusa-San View Post
A good solution will be to supress the bad rep system and keep the good rep one. With this system we could add a "agree or disagree" post system.

The good rep system is for the poster when the other one is for the post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusa-San View Post
I'm not sure to undertand what you're trying to say ? Here is how I see it :

The good rep system should be used to say that you like this poster and his posts.

The post system could be used to say that you agree or not with his post.

It's not the same thing.

I like your ideas here.

My impression is that the neg rep side of the rep system is used primarily, if not exclusively, for people to express how they find a particular post disagreeable, offensive, or overly long-winded/repetitive. An "Agree/Disagree" system could cover this entirely.

On the other hand, I get the sense that the pos rep side is not only about recognizing particularly agreeable and/or eloquent posts, but also to express thanks to a poster for being helpful in a certain way (for example, I've given out posreps to people before for making complex avatars and/or sigs for me).


So if the Anime Suki Moderating/Technical Staff were to disable the neg rep side of the rep system, while putting an "agree/disagree" system in place for individual posts, I could see that gaining Anime Suki the best of all worlds:

1. Posts that people found disagreeable and/or offensive could still be "punished" in a way that's less bothersome to the board than flamewars.

2. Posters would no longer ever be annoyed over anonymous bad rep with no clear reason given for why it was passed out, as such things would no longer exist.

3. Posters who consistently make good contributions to the board and its community would still be rewarded for it at the "person" level, and not simply at the post level.

4. It would at least partially address Komari's issue given in the OP of this thread. There'd be no limits on how much you could "agree" with a particular member's posts before having to "agree" with other member's posts, so that could alleviate at least some of the irritation that some may feel over not being able to posrep the same person twice (even if the two posreps would be given weeks apart).


That being said, doing both of this (disabling neg rep, putting in place agree/disagree system) might be a lot of technical work. If it is, I can see the idea not flying for that reason. But if it's not overly hard to implement, I do think the idea should be given serious consideration.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2011-09-23 at 09:39.
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Old 2011-09-23, 14:51   Link #19
Hiroi Sekai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
As someone who routinely posts lengthy replies to requests in the Suggestions forum, I can say with some experience that few of our members give rep for those efforts.

Sometimes I think I might stop posting in that forum, given the level of rudeness the posters generally display. Of course, that behavior isn't limited to AnimeSuki. I've had the same experience on technical forums where someone asks a question, I post a long detailed answer, and the OP never returns to the thread.

It's just rude, but then we don't seem to be doing a very job of training our children to be polite.
Ah, of course. The internet's a cruel place after all- the best we can do is utilize what it has to offer and look for those diamonds in rough. There are lots of good people here, and when I take the time into making a reply, there are people who rep me. Perhaps you've just been unlucky in the one forum? Without pointing fingers at anyone in particular, I definitely agree that my current generation holds more trouble than what we're good for. As I stare outside, the drunks have already taken the street at 11 AM and I can barely sleep sometimes because the irresponsible teens are out screaming and partying. Granted you often do act quite differently on the internet than in real life, but to hear that people can't be civilized on a friendly forum is just saddening.

As for the rep/thanks difference, I agree that the thanks system gets quite cluttered- I had it installed in a forum I used to run.

Quote:
If spreading the love is an intentional side effect, then I understand. But I am a bit frazzled that I can't rep two of the people on this very page who I don't even remember repping, it's been so long ago.
With the rep system, I try to think of it as a "giving" thing. Try to go around the forum more often and get more involved with all the areas of this site. I get around a decent amount on here and without giving rep that isn't necessary, I can generally avoid the "cannot rep" message most of the time. It does suck when you can't give one out when you really want to, but just leave that person a thanks on their profile, and then rep them when you can again. Just a suggestion from my own personal experiences.
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Old 2011-09-24, 00:24   Link #20
Tempester
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Maybe this isn't the appropriate thread to say this, but I'd like there to be an option in the User CP under Thread Display Options to choose whether to show other people's reputation or not when browsing the forums, just as we can choose to see avatars and signatures. Some of us may not like the rep system and would prefer to see other members in an unbiased way, in other words not judging others prematurely by their reputation.
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